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Upgrade warning: Local flags in collections may disappear for good

Mar 6, 2012 5:06 PM

So I've upgrade (or rather copied and upgraded) my LR 3 catalog to the newly installed LR 4.

 

And there seems to be no smart upgrade policy for local flags in collections. They're simply gone.

 

If you want to migrate, it seems to me that you will have to find a way how to preserve those flags by fiddling with LR 3 first.

 

I'll probably make two stacks in each collection: picks and the rest. Very cumbersome to manage, but probably the best alternative until Adobe decides to give us some sort of 'picking the best' locally for a collection.

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 6, 2012 5:44 PM   in reply to slarti3

    I wish I had known this before upgrading. What is strange is that they seem preserved in collections where I also used the color flagging.

     
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    Mar 6, 2012 7:01 PM   in reply to slarti3

    This is a big bummer.  Hours and hours of my time wasted due to adobes failure.  I was able to go back a couple of weeks to my last backup and open it with LR3.  This recovered most of my flagged photos with the exception of the previous two weeks of work.  This was not an issue when upgrading from LR2 to LR3.  What happened?

     
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    Mar 6, 2012 8:41 PM   in reply to slarti3

    Am I correct that flags from collections in LR3 are not carried over to collections in LR4? They do not appear to have been fully carried over when I upgraded and that is what it seems postings here are saying. If so, that is a major blunder by Adobe.

     
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    Mar 6, 2012 11:09 PM   in reply to stonerobertc

    was a policy decision, not a blunder.

    PITA though, but more collections...

     
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    Mar 6, 2012 11:30 PM   in reply to slarti3

    slarti3 wrote:

     

    I'll probably make two stacks in each collection: picks and the rest. Very cumbersome to manage, but probably the best alternative until Adobe decides to give us some sort of 'picking the best' locally for a collection.

     

    Notice that local stacking is now available in collections. Stacking has always been best suited to "picking the best", though it can be handy for other things.

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 5:07 AM   in reply to slarti3

    If it is a policy decison, I am not sure what policy is being pursued. I have spent countless hours going through thousands of photos comparing and then selecting the best ones to use. If those selections are not carried into LR4 then all of that work will be lost. I will either have to run parallel versions with LR3 for older photos and LR4 for new ones, or I could just give up on LR4. What would be the reason for not carrying those picks into LR4? They did it from LR2 to LR3 and I don't understand why it did not happen with this upgrade.

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 5:10 AM   in reply to slarti3

    I should probably add that in addition to the flags not being carried forward into LR4, the sort order of collections is not carried forward. Clearly there is data regarding collections that is not being recognized by LR4.

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 6:50 AM   in reply to slarti3

    I must be missing something here. I understand that flags are now "global". I know with LR3 if I flagged a photo before it was in a collection that the flag would not be attached to the photo when I put it in a collection. I was pleased to see that LR4 changed that. Because of the requirement in LR3 to flag photos after they were in a collection, virtually all of my flags in LR3 were attached to the photos when they were in a collection. Now when I convert the LR3 catalog to LR4 it lists the collections in the left window, but the collections are not the same. They contain the same pictures, but that is about it. Where I have sorted collections to blend phots from two cameras, the "user sort" order is not recognized. Likewise, the flags that were attached to the photos in the collections in LR3 are gone. It seems none of the sorting, rating, etc. info in LR3 collections has been carried over. I assume somewhere in the depths of LR3 and/or 4 these photos/collections are tagged with various pieces of information, such as flags, sort order, etc. However, LR4 does not seem to recognize them from LR3. I only used the beta of LR4 briefly and did not try importing existing catalogs/collections since I understood that the beta was limited in that regard. I like the idea of the flags staying with the photo regardless of where it is being viewed, but I just need to have the flags, sort order, etc. from collections in LR3 show up in the collections in LR4.

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 8:37 AM   in reply to slarti3

    I dont understand why as part of the upgrade process they couldn't give us the option of making our collection flags global flags. I used virtually no flags outside of collections since they wouldn't stick once I got them in collections. I am sticking to LR3 until I can go through my entire catalg and I guess delete everything non flagged, which is a total PITA. It seems they could have asked and converted if desired. Like I mentioned I still seem to have "pick" flags in collections where I used color coding or ratings as well.

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 8:48 AM   in reply to brittneym

    brittneym wrote:

     

    I dont understand why as part of the upgrade process they couldn't give us the option of making our collection flags global flags.

     

    What if you have the same image in two collections, one flagged, one not flagged?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2012 8:52 AM   in reply to slarti3

    Thats why you put it to the usersas an install choice. Right now everyone, regardless of workflow, is stuck with having everything not flagged. So all that data is lost for everyone. If its a choice, and as user you know you have things in multiple collections with differing flags you either chose no, or choose yes knowing that at least some of your flags survive.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 7, 2012 8:55 AM   in reply to brittneym

    Maybe I'm missing this.

     

    Right now, as I understand it (and I may not), it just ignores flags in collections, and preserves flags in folders.  Fine, no issues.

     

    If you wanted it to preserve flags in collections, there could be collisions because one image could have different flag settings in different collections.  So which would you preserve?  If one was flagged as "pick" and another as "reject", which would become the setting in the folder?

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 1:25 PM   in reply to slarti3

    There are going to be differences of opinion whether flags should be global or local to collections. I guess it is a matter of personal work flow and preference. What seems to be lost in all of this is that flags have been local for a long time and we all have developed our use of them with that in mind. I personally group photos by subject into collections and then review them for selection. I flag the picks in the collection as I go through them and then I can pull up just the flagged photos in the collection for later use. It might be to create a CD, a slide show, or whatever. This process often involves a great deal of time comparing variations on the same picture for expressions, focus, etc. Once I make my choice I flag it. I have gone thorough that evaluation and selection process for thousands of photos. Now Adobe is changing this major item with no option to the user to keep the flags local to maintain the structure that has been created under the earlier system.

     

    I am certainly capable of using global flags going forward with new photos, but my concern is the inability to carry forward to LR4 the flags I have already spent hours and hours applying to the catalogs in LR3. I personally would be fine with converting my local flags to global flags, just don't simply throw them away. That is essentially what LR4 does - it thows them away. They represent a lot of time and work to pick the best photos.

     

    I have to beleive there are a lot of people who have used the flags in a similar manner. I do not see how Adobe can make such a significant change to this issue after years of the other structure without any method to at least convert the existing flagging information to the new system. It is precisely this kind of change that makes people reluctant to switch to things like DNG file formats.   

     
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    Mar 7, 2012 1:39 PM   in reply to slarti3

    I meant to add one other thought on this. It seems that if Adobe wanted to add a global flag they could have kept the local flags as they were and added a new and different type of flag that is global.  I don't have a problem with the addition of some form of global flag, but why was it deemed an improvement to take away the local flags that many people use with no alternative to that system or way to convert it to a new system.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 9:03 AM   in reply to slarti3

    By the way, the flags are still there in the catalog, copied exactly as they were in LR3 (AgLibraryCollectionImage table, pick column in the database). They are just not visible. All you can do is use the contextual menu to select these invisible local picks and rejects:

    context_flags.png

    From here, you can migrate them to your new system, be it stacking, more sub-collection, labels etc.

     

    Thanks to Victoria Bampton for the tip.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 12:52 PM   in reply to Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

    I feel stupid for asking, but how do you get the bottom two options to show up in the list? (Select Old Contextual Flagged & Select Old Contextual Rejected) My list shows everything but the last two options.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 3:18 PM   in reply to LASVNV

    If you dont see those menus, perhaps you didn't have any local Flags in

    them.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated

    Dorin, You are a lifesaver. That is exactly what I was hoping was available somewhere in LR4 to add the flags.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated

    Dorin, I'm really lost regarding your screen shot.  What am I missing?

     

    Here's all I get:

     

    Screen Shot 2012-03-08 at 7.46.05 PM.png

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 8, 2012 11:37 PM   in reply to foboos

    Try right-clicking the collection, not the set.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated

    As they say, "Draw me a picture."  Thanks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated

    Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață wrote:

     

    ... use the contextual menu to select these invisible local picks and rejects:

    Good tip, Dorin. Do you you know of any similar tip on how to preserve sort order?

     

    I admit that I am a coward (or just very careful with my usage of time), so I haven't even attempted to upgrade my existing catalog to LR4. But since every collection I have use customized sort order (User Order), it would be completely meaningless for me to even make any attempts at upgrading unless there was a known method of preserving sort order. Therefore, I got to know before I spend time on it. Is customized sort order always lost or only sometimes under certain conditions?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2012 5:20 AM   in reply to Harald E Brandt

    Is customized sort order always lost or only sometimes under certain conditions?

     

    Sometimes under certain conditions.

     

    My tests with my main/production catalog and a test catalog show that the user order is indeed copied over correctly. However, while fiddling with this issue I have noticed at least to bugs with user sort order, both in LR3 and LR4.

     

     

    For example, in LR4 I have encountered the following bug, which I cannot reproduce in LR3:

     

    1. In a collection with User sort order set, right-click an image and select Go To Folder.
    2. Say, the folder is sorted by Capture Time.
    3. In the folder, click the Back button (Ctrl+Alt+Left).
    4. You are back in the collection, but the sort order is not set to User anymore - it is Capture Time.
    5. Switch to another collection and back again, the sort order is set to User again.

     

    It does not happen if in step 3, you go back to collection in some other way (e.g. click in Collection panel or use the History in the filmstrip heading).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2012 5:07 AM   in reply to stonerobertc

    stonerobertc,

     

    When you say sort order is lost, are you talking about sort order itself or the sort criteria?

     

    In other words, if you know you had a collection with custom sort order in LR3, and now in LR4 that sorting is gone... can you restore it by selecting User Order from the search criteia list?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 10, 2012 6:08 AM   in reply to Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

    Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață wrote:

    However, while fiddling with this issue I have noticed at least two bugs with user sort order, both in LR3 and LR4.

    Hmm, ...

    LR2 had severe bugs concerning sort order (that I reported to Adobe's bug reporter). If you do testing and find different behaviors, it might perhaps depend on how/when the collection was sorted. The following are two ways it could have been sorted (where the first method did not work in LR2):

     

    A. A collection was created from a stack whose images were manually sorted, using 'Include selected photos' (and it was then set to User Order).

     

    B. An empty collection was created and set to User Order, then images were added and sorted.

     

    I am just saying this as a test hint in case there does not seem to be any consistent behaviors.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 15, 2012 2:36 PM   in reply to Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

    I think the sort order is working. When I first viewed a collection in LR4 it said it was sorted by user, but I knew that it was not. It seemed to sort them by fille name even though it said user order. I resorted by capture time and then sorted by user order again and it sorted them properly. I think it was a matter of a mismatch on the initial viewing between what it said the sort order was and what it actually was.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 15, 2012 2:46 PM   in reply to Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

    Looking forward, is there a selection method other than flagging, such as rating, that better survives the upgrades?  Flags have always been my choice, and I've gone through this ignore old flags problem with previous upgrades.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 15, 2012 10:44 PM   in reply to foboos

    Everything, except local flags, works as before.

     
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    Apr 7, 2012 4:08 AM   in reply to slarti3

    I have a huge LR 3 catalogue that uses local flags extensively and I am currently researching options to get the rejected and picked flags back in a useful way (e.g. by creating new collections named -rejected and -picked). If any of you know of a similar effort please post it in this thread: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4319149#4319149 . Let me know if this is something you would find useful.

     
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