Hi,
I just email Julieanne Kost and asked if she would consider creating a "How To" video of workflow steps to acheive an orderly catalog from a chaotic collection of files. I received an auto-response that she is gone til next week.
Anyone interested in developing an outline before she returns?
Here is my email:
=====================================
I have watched several of your wonderful lessons, and wonder if you would consider creating one for my situation…I’m sure I am not alone.
I started with LR 3.0 and upgraded each time – now to 4.0. But I have done nothing more than import them into the default catalog.
I have done some very minor tagging – of my son’s images with his name (and not all of those)
My 15,495 image collection comes from a variety of sources:
Scanned images B&W and color (1940s-70s)
Scanned 35 mm slides (1980s-90s)
Scanned 35 mm negatives (1970s+)
Scanned large format negatives (1940s)
Scanned newspaper images
Scanned art (prints)
Photographed art (oils)
Photo-shopped art (large format photo-merged)
Nikon Super CoolScan 5000 (2,245 images)
Epson V700 scanner
Various other scanners
Various digital cameras
Various cellphones
I was very pleased to see the equipment show up in the attributes.
My image file directories are as (Windows 7 64 bit):
E:\Pictures
.\1940s
.\year (e.g.1946)
.\1950s
Etc through
.\2010s
.\2010-01 (Jan)
.\2011
.\2012
Some folder names include “S”=slide or “N”=Neg and may include special occasion names
There are also folders without year identified.
I also created and manage the “E. A. Burbank Timeline” (1858-1949 - portrait painter of Geronimo) with all the art images I have found (Dreamweaver 4,904 Files, 383 Folders).
I also have a Burbank working folder with the original image scans and photos (24,542 Files, 1,346 Folders)
Many of these images are manual Photoshop generated of various sizes for the different pages (thumbnail, medium, large JPGs + original Photoshop files).
www.Harvard-Diggins.org/Burbank (started in 2003)
So I have quite the mess.
Sorry to take so long on the setup
=================
I would be most interested in the 10-20 workflow steps to arrive at an orderly library with reasonable initial tagging.
Some questions:
I’m sure you will think of other questions to ask during the process.
If I had the time to sit and learn all of LR before starting I would hope to know enough to be successful on the first try, but since I don’t – I don’t want to start and then realize how much time I have wasted.
I hope this is an interesting enough and common enough sort of problem to have you consider making a “How To”…
And yes, I know I should really convert the website – but if I did, I would want to make it database driven.
I have CS Master Collection 5.5 as well as some other products (in addition to LR 4).
Warmest Regards,
M_L_Sadler wrote:
So I have quite the mess.
I don't see a mess at all. I see your folders are quite nicely organized.
- Would it make sense to import all the generated files, or should I only import the original PSDs?
In my opinion, the point of using Lightroom as your digital asset manager, is to manage ALL of your photos. Lightroom becomes the tool for searching and locating your photos. If some photos aren't in LR, then you have created disorganization ... some photos you find in Lightroom, others you find by other means. Put all the photos into LR.
Would it make sense to tag each image with the original year, or use the folder name instead?
Just noticed the date of image creation is fully populated in the library…nice!
Using a tag is redundant ... extra work, no benefit. Your ability to find photos is not enhanced if you have both a tag that says 1957 and a folder that says 1957.
Should I rename each filename to include the folder year? (Since I already know)
Guess not needed!
My opinion is consistently to not put metadata into file names. The important point to me is that once you get Lightroom up and running properly, you will not be using file names to locate your photos, you will be using Lightroom tools such as keywords, captions and other metadata.
I also want to urge you to move away from calendar based organizing. The power of Lightroom comes from the fact that now you can categorize/organize/search for photos by the photo content, not the year that it was taken. Most people think much more naturally of the content of a photo, not the year it was taken. By using keywords and captions to describe the content of the photo, you create a mechanism that is much more natural for searching. Furthermore, consider a library of books -- there is no library of books that I know of that makes you search by the year the book was published ... they all offer you the ability to search by title, author, keyword, etc.
Should I attempt some type of auto tagging based on what I know about what is in each folder
or is tagging just going to be a nightmare?
I object to the phrasing of the question, calling tagging a nightmare. Tagging is a necessary step to make use of Lightroom, and to enable you and others to find the photos. I am not aware of any autotagging that works well in a case such as this. Adding keywords is work that pays high dividends if you do it well. Certainly, it is not a simple task that can be completed in an hour, but it is extremely valuable work to do.
You might want to consider, using pencil and paper, or a text editor, making a preliminary hierarchy of keywords to use, based upon your knowledge of the content of the photos. You would then apply these to the photos — and of course, there may need to be additions/corrections to the hierarchy, but this is easily changed in Lightroom.
But other than that, it seems to me you are at the point where you want to start importing and keywording. You don't have to do this all at once; you can import and keyword a portion of the photos (for example, all the 1940s photos) and work on those before moving on to the next group.
Let me also add a bit of philosophy. You want to achieve an "orderly catalog from a chaotic collection of files". While I have no idea exactly what that means to you, let me state what it means to me.
An orderly catalog is one that allows you to, quickly and easily, find the photos that you want based upon the content of the photo (and if necessary auxiliary information), by using keywords, captions and other metadata; and not by searching through my folders. Thus, when I want to find that beautiful photo of the winery in the Finger Lakes with the fall foliage in the background, I search for winery, Finger Lakes and fall foliage (maybe I don't even need all three). In my catalog, I believe I can find almost every photo quickly and easily, using keywords, captions and other metadata. I never search using folder names; I never browse my folders; and I have no idea what folder this particular photo (or any particular photo) is located in.
I have said elsewhere that the "chaotic collection of files" becomes irrelevant once you achieve the orderly catalog. It doesn't matter to me that some photos are located in subfolders by date under a folder named "Nikon Pictures", and others are still in subfolders by date under a photo named "Kodak Photos", and some photos are located in other places. I don't care. I don't use the folder names for organizing or searching. The folder names are simply storage locations. I let Lightroom do the hard work of remembering what folder the photos are in (that's what computers are good at!) so I don't have to remember this difficult-to-remember information; I only have to remember the photo content. And I have no plans to move the photos around so that they are all in a "nicer, neater" tree of folders, because that will not help me find my photos. To me it is work with no value. Some people do want to make this "nicer, neater" tree of folders, and that's their choice.
So, in my mind, I have achieved an orderly catalog where I can find the photos easily and quickly, without ever once making a change to my "chaotic collection of files".
Lightroom does not care where your photo files are stored as it keeps track of their location in the "catalog"
In my opinion, the MOST important reason to have all of your photo files under one top level folder is for ease of backup of your photo files. If the photos are spread all over the place, backup will be a difficult task and no matter how strongly you feel about backup, you will eventually not do it as it is too difficult.
I concur with the other writer that you should develop a keywording structure outside of Lightroom. This includes not only the keywords but the organization of those keywords, i.e. which keywords should be under what higher level category. I am an enthusiast (non-pro). Every photo I import into Lightroom is subject to two keyword categories... Location and Subject. Sometimes I want to look for photos based on my remembering where I took them. Other times I want to search for photos based on what is the subject matter of the photo.
This will be your first pass at this task. If you are like most folks, once you have started using this first pass keyword structure, you will come up with additional needs. For instance, I put some of my photos on a web site. Thus I added a top level keyword I call "Good_ones".
Hope this helps your thought process as you approach this task. It will take some time so don't rush it. Your efforts will pay off in the future.
I have imported the rest of the images and now have 26,947 in the catalog. Looks like searching on any word(s) in the full file path results in finding all files anywhere in the directory (or directories) subtree (or subtrees) from the folder(s) where the word is found.
For example: "Denver_Art_Museum" is in the path and searching finds the two images. Also searching for "Denver Art Museum" finds the same two (Nice!) "Denver Art" finds the same two, while "Denver" finds 8 (Denver Art Museum, Denver Public Library, and 5 with Denver in the filename.
Nice to know!
=============
Now I need to create a heirarchy of tags. I'll start with Native American portrait images here as they would make the most sense to any reader.
Even though "Burbank" is in the path, I'll start with "E. A. Burbank" (Just in case I ever take photos in Burbank, CA)
So...
Artist [Name]
Tribe
Location
Sitter [Name]
Pose
Costume [Dress/leather/robe/buffalo/color]
(I could create this in a spreadsheet and drag cells down to fill (less typing))
Example:
E. A. Burbank...hmmm - How do I add multiple tags at once with a paste? Researching...
(but the keywords aren’t saved to the files unless the Automatically Write Changes Into XMP option is selected in the Catalog Settings dialog box) Hmmm
Should I save the tags to the image files?
I don't see a way to paste in multiple tags at once...Now I could select all images with "Burbank" in the path and add the "E. A. Burbank" tag, but the tag would not be appropriate for ALL images in the path.
I could select all (thousands) and look through to deselect those I wanted to exclude (hundreds)...
OK - enough for now...maybe someone can share a better way.
OK. First video has tag adding at 17:20, nothing in second.
Try http://lightroomkillertips.com/2007/a-quick-way-to-copy-keywords-to-mu ttiple-photos/
Now I know I can add the tags one-at-a-time to one image, then copy paste all at once into others.
From http://www.webmonkey.com/2010/02/lightroom_tutorial_lesson_2/
"Use commas to separate keywords from one another." (unless changed in 4.0)
![]()
E. A. Burbank,Apache,Ft. Sill,Fort Sill,Geronimo,Front,Blanket,Red,Head Scarf
Probably should add date of portrait
E. A. Burbank,1898,Apache,Ft. Sill,Fort Sill,Geronimo,Front,Blanket,Red,Head Scarf
Great!
QUOTE
Your ability to find photos is not enhanced if you have both a tag that says 1957 and a folder that says 1957.
End
I would question this.
There are two aspects to the answer.
First is finding images in LR
Second is finding files on disk.
I rename files on import and add the current date to whatever the camera defaults may be.
These files then go into a directory named with the date of image capture (LR extracts this from the camera data)
These folders are contained within a folder holding all captures from that month.
The 12 monthly folders are contained within a parent folder named with the year i.e. 2011, 2012 etc
If I copy a file into a working directory (I keep my images on one drive and perform work on them on another drive. This avoids the potential for a destructive edit using PS) then I can always locate the orginal directory as the image filename indicates the original physical location on disk.
I have a catalog with in excess of 100,000 images and this works well.
For all the rest of your indexing it is best to rely on LR using either keywords (I have scans keyworded as "scans" and screen captures keyworded as "screen captures." You could also organize your files using collections. Both keywords and collections permit extremely fine grained identification of specific images. The only problem is that LR will not import PNG. It would be nice to use LRs cataloging and keywording power to catalog the full range of images and files that might be used in graphic design.
kuro_sushi wrote:
QUOTE
Your ability to find photos is not enhanced if you have both a tag that says 1957 and a folder that says 1957.
End
I would question this.
There are two aspects to the answer.
First is finding images in LR
Second is finding files on disk.
Wait ... if you can find the image in LR, why do you (the user) need to find the image on disk using a folder name? Even if the folder name doesn't contain the year. LR will find the proper folder for you easily and you don't have to know the folder name -- LR knows!!!
I fully agree to dj_paige as long as you are within Lightroom, and to kuro_sushi when you are on your operating system.
I think you need to be able to navigate both.
At least if you think of some less agreeable disaster recovery - there might be times when you need some restoration software. Sometimes filenames or folder structures may be lost completely. RAID-controllers can fail...
When I move images from my laptop to longterm storage I need handy portions and have stuck with file folders, just for this purpose.
Naming convention is "YYYY-MM-DD shoot name", which I all put inside one YYYY-folder per year. I do not feel the need for a month level in between, because I do not shoot so much. Having this folder structure has the added value of being a mini-diary, especially on vacation travel.
But if you have keywords like that and create a set of collections based on it, you have the same as collection structure i.o. folder structure.
I do not have LR auto-saving to metadata, but I invoke it myself once I think it is ready or I would hate to loose stuff in case of LR corruption. Usually twice: after developing and after adding keywords and captions.
Meticulous backup of all LR stuff as well as of the images is essential. Keywords are written to xmp-metadata.
Renaming of files is superfluous for me, I just try to keep file names unique across all cameras and a decade, which Nikon supports better by in-camera-prefixes than Canon does. So Canon get a prefix during import, just for distinctive filename. Actually this could be improved by a general renaming... I should challenge my habits again...
For "location" you get now much better options with the new map module. This might save you some keywording, so you might want to learn about this feature first, before you decide on location-keywords on top. You have the general location/country etc. inside IPTC fields if you enable reverse geocoding. This is also searchable.
To decide on what *orderly* will mean for you, ask yourself and maybe others with access to your Lightroom database, what search questions you/they have.
You need to be able to answer any such use case by a collection or filter or search.
Once you have achieved this, you will have perfect order in your catalog!
Have fun,
Cornelia
dj_paige wrote:
Wait ... if you can find the image in LR, why do you (the user) need to find the image on disk using a folder name? Even if the folder name doesn't contain the year. LR will find the proper folder for you easily and you don't have to know the folder name -- LR knows!!!
I think that depends on your software to backup your images, which you do outside of Lightroom.
If you do Filesynch or such, it is useful if you find your way *by eyesight* on OS level.
If you have a fully automated backup software that takes care of all that, no need.
Also a question of recovery: sometimes I have one corrupted DNG on my NAS, so I just copy this one from its backup-NAS, manually.
Looks like some valuable discussion so far...and what we do in LR depends greatly on what we are trying to do with the images. As for me:
I'm not a professional photographer
I'm not an amature photographer (though I did own a nice Canon 35mm SLR long ago) - been using my cell phone camera for a few years now (8 MP - way better than the 4 MP I was using before that).
I'm not an artist.
I'm not a PhotoShop expert.
I'm not a DreamWeaver expert.
(OMG - what are YOU doing HERE??...LOL)
So our workflow steps so far are:
Well, enough of this for now.
Any more helpful advice?
Before you jump in and criticize...I asked if anyone had a workflow...guess none of you have actually thought through this.
I guess I'm here to help!
Well here'ya go:
http://lightroomsecrets.com/2009/04/building-keyword-lists-outside-of- lightroom/
Kinda old...but looks like it might work!
On the "Help" - I see LR 4 help, but can't search it.
F1= Adobe Community Help
Search box on left is for LR3
Click link at top right = http://help.adobe.com/en_US/lightroom/using/index.html
LR4
Search for "Tag" = no results
Search for "Keyword" = no results
Guess I will download the pdf file View Help PDF (9.7MB) and try there.
To be continued...
LR 4 pdf sends me to:
http://www.peachpit.com/podcasts/episode.aspx?e=d0ba3295-88c8-4c11-882 2-060904201518
Created and added (in 15 minutes):
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Through 2019.
Nice! Used the Excel spreadsheet method mentioned at 6:45 last night.
Took a break for dinner and Chris Matthews...then:
Locations
France
Paris
Germany
UK
Wales
States
AL Alabama
AK Alaska
AS American Samoa
AZ Arizona
AR Arkansas
CA California
CO Colorado
CT Connecticut
DE Delaware
DC District of Columbia
FM Fed. States of Micronesia
FL Florida
GA Georgia
GU Guam
HI Hawaii
ID Idaho
IL Illinois
IN Indiana
IA Iowa
KS Kansas
KY Kentucky
LA Louisiana
ME Maine
MH Marshall Islands
MD Maryland
MA Massachusetts
MI Michigan
MN Minnesota
MS Mississippi
MO Missouri
MT Montana
NE Nebraska
NV Nevada
NH New Hampshire
NJ New Jersey
NM New Mexico
NY New York
NC North Carolina
ND North Dakota
MP Northern Mariana Is.
OH Ohio
OK Oklahoma
OR Oregon
PW Palau
PA Pennsylvania
PR Puerto Rico
RI Rhode Island
SC South Carolina
SD South Dakota
TN Tennessee
TX Texas
UT Utah
VT Vermont
VA Virginia
VI Virgin Islands
WA Washington
WV West Virginia
WI Wisconsin
WY Wyoming
Plus several other manually.
Next Tribes.
Up til Midnight and going well this morning...an hour so far.
Out of 26,946 images:
I found having the file path attributes very helpful. I'm probably down to onezies now...but keyword sync and auto-sync look interesting.
VERY powerful software!
North America
Europe, Middle East and Africa
Asia Pacific