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Kit Lebone Calculating status...

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Text flow problem

Mar 13, 2012 7:36 AM

We're currently trialing CS5.5 ID and CS5.5 IC. When I 'Package for Incopy' and my editor opens the .icap file sometimes the text flows over by a line or two. I thought I'd pinpointed it down to hypenation but it's also returning whole words onto the next line causing the text to overrun the text box. Any suggestions as to why this is happening much appreciated. Thanks.

1738 Views 32 Replies Latest reply: Kit Lebone, Mar 14, 2012 7:33 AM

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1. Bob Levine,

Mar 13, 2012 7:38 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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Obvious question is:

Do you both have the exact same version of the exact same font?

Bob

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2. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 7:50 AM in reply to Bob Levine

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Hi Bob - Yes we do.

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3. Bob Levine,

Mar 13, 2012 7:55 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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Do you have InCopy to test it out on your machine?

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4. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 7:59 AM in reply to Bob Levine

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Yes, to be honest I've been playing the role of designer and editor on my machine here in London (my ed is in the British Virgin Islands and he's not online yet)

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5. Bob Levine,

Mar 13, 2012 8:04 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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And? Does it work for you?

Bob

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6. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 8:11 AM in reply to Bob Levine

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No I'm afraid it doesn't hence the original post

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7. Bob Levine,

Mar 13, 2012 8:16 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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Try opening the InDesign document with InCopy. Now does it work?

Bob

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8. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 8:25 AM in reply to Bob Levine

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Yes, but if my editor sees that the text is over by one in the .icap file he'll cut it to fit and return it to me a line short

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9. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 8:26 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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Sorry, that should read "over by one LINE"

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10. Bob Levine,

Mar 13, 2012 8:30 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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Just trying to figure out where the problem may be.

I’ve seen this in the past and it’s pretty wonky. Have you considered a Dropbox based workflow? Just drop the ID file along with the InCopy files in a Dropbox folder and you’re off to the races.

Bob

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11. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 8:34 AM in reply to Bob Levine

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I was just thinking of trying that after reading a post a few minutes ago about using dropbox instead of 'Package for Incopy' over an FTP. Thanks for your help, I'll update this post if it works.

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12. John Hawkinson,

Mar 13, 2012 8:40 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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Kit:

No I'm afraid it doesn't hence the original post
Just to be perfectly clear, an InCopy assignment exported from InDesign and opened in InCopy all on the same machine shows overset text?

What operating system?

Are you running InDesign 7.5.2.318 and InCopy 7.5.2.318 both? Hold down Cmd/Control About InDesign to verify.

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13. Bob Levine,

Mar 13, 2012 8:46 AM in reply to John Hawkinson

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John,

This has been a long running and very difficult problem with InDesign/InCopy workflows. Very intermittent and nearly impossible to pin down, IME.

Perhaps Anne Marie will pop in with a bit more insight.

Bob

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14. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 8:51 AM in reply to John Hawkinson

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I'm using a Macbook Pro (early 2011) running OS X Lion 10.7.3

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15. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 8:54 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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and Indesign CS5.5 / 7.5 and Incopy 5.5 / 7.5 both 30 trials

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16. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 8:55 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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30 'DAY' trials

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17. Bob Levine,

Mar 13, 2012 8:57 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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As John pointed out, you should still make sure you’re fully patched to 7.5.2.

Bob

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18. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 9:01 AM in reply to Bob Levine

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Ah OK... trying that now. Thanks

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19. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 9:26 AM in reply to Bob Levine

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Updated Indesign to 7.5.2. Problem solved! Thank you. I think we'll now be buying Incopy company wide - this was the one thing that was holding up the decision. Thanks again.

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20. John Hawkinson,

Mar 13, 2012 9:28 AM in reply to Bob Levine

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Bob:
This has been a long running and very difficult problem with InDesign/InCopy workflows. Very intermittent and nearly impossible to pin down, IME.
Well, it sounds like it is pretty consistent for Kit. Though she has not responded about whether she is running 7.5.2.318, and
I asked "just to be perfectly clear" and she has not answered. So, Kit, just to be perfectly clear, can you please answer my Yes/No question from above? Thanks!

Repeating: "Just to be perfectly clear, an InCopy assignment exported from InDesign and opened in InCopy all on the same machine shows overset text?"

I've heard of this happening and it has always been font-related. But maybe you've seen a different problem. I guess I would wonder if there is any font management software involved, and exactly which font faces the problem occurs with, and whether the problem stays if you change the font to, say, Minion Pro (ships with InDesign; maybe a bad choice because there could be dupes), or maybe Apple Gothic (ships with the OS, pretty much guaranteed to have no dupes).

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21. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 9:38 AM in reply to John Hawkinson

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Hi John - I've updated Indesign to 7.5.2. and the problem is solved (sorry, I replied to Bob on that earlier maybe you didn't see). Thank you!

P.S.. and yes, an InCopy assignment exported from InDesign and opened in InCopy all on the same machine was showing overset text before I updated the software.

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22. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 10:24 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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Scrub that. I spoke too soon! I've just tried it with a different document and the same thing happens: an InCopy assignment exported from InDesign and opened in InCopy all on the same machine shows overset text but.... the document I was testing at the beginning of this thread is now OK... no overset text. The plot thickens....

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23. John Hawkinson,

Mar 13, 2012 10:45 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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In a very small way that makes me feel better since the 7.5.2 release notes don't seem to hint at a problem like this.
Could you try the font tests I suggested?

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24. Kit Lebone,

Mar 13, 2012 10:59 AM in reply to John Hawkinson

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I see your point. Meanwhile I'll try your font test suggestion.

Just for the record the first problem document uses a different font (Scala) from the second problem document (Interface).

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25. Kit Lebone,

Mar 14, 2012 4:53 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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OK.... I tried replacing the fonts with Apple Gothic and the .icap file looks the same as the Indesign - no overset text. But I'm not sure how this will help me. Scala and Interface are the house fonts of this particular publication. Both purchased from reputable font houses, I've never had a problem with them. Anyway, I'm totally stumped and I'm now going to try the dropbox workflow as the problem only seems to occur when I 'Package for Incopy' on the .icap file.

Correction!!!!

I just had thought... I hadn't actually tried using the usual workflow i.e, not packaging for Incopy.

I just opened the problem document, created a new assignment, and opened the .icma file in Incopy, and... my text still overruns by one line. The problem is still there. I've attached screen grabs of the two documents using Scala/Interface bodytext and highlighted which word/character returns onto the next line causing the whole column of text to overrun.

I thought I was nearly there, but it seems not.

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26. Bob Levine,

Mar 14, 2012 5:23 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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As I said early on, I’ve seen this in the past and it’s a bear. There’s one other thing you can try.

Export the InDesign document to IDML and open that. This has a way of clearing out any minor corruption.

Bob

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27. Kit Lebone,

Mar 14, 2012 5:35 AM in reply to Bob Levine

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Woah. Just exported the same document to idml and again, I have overset text by one line. It might be worth mentioning that I'm converting my old CS2 docs to CS5.5

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28. Bob Levine,

Mar 14, 2012 5:42 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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Well, yes…that would be very important information because the text engines have changed. Why is it important?

Because InDesign will keep the old the text flow until you start editing stories. What I would do in this case would be to export to INX from CS2 and open that in CS5.5.

By exporting to INX you force CS5.5 to recompose all of the stories in the document and you get rid of any extraneous junk in the file. Absent the availability of CS2 the first thing to do would be to recompose all the stories in CS5.5 by using the keyboard shortcut CmdOpt/ or CtrlAlt/

Bob

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29. Kit Lebone,

Mar 14, 2012 5:51 AM in reply to Bob Levine

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Thank you! I'll try the above.

Apologies for not mentioning the CS2 to CS5.5 convertion earlier, at least we can move forward and implement Incopy company wide.

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30. Kit Lebone,

Mar 14, 2012 7:10 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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I exported the CS2 file to INX (I still have CS2 on my old machine) and opened in CS5.5 this is the result:

The page on the left is the CS2 doc, the page on the right is the INX opened in CS5.5. (Note how the background tint has also changed)

Seeing as this isn't really an Incopy problem anymore should I be posting in the Indesign forum instead?

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31. Bob Levine,

Mar 14, 2012 7:20 AM in reply to Kit Lebone

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The text reflowing is expected. For anything else, you might want to move this over to the InDesign forum.

Bob

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32. Kit Lebone,

Mar 14, 2012 7:33 AM in reply to Bob Levine

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Thanks Bob. Heading over there now...

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