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PP CS 6.0

Mar 15, 2012 3:45 AM

NAB is getting close and I wonder if our request will be met in PP CS6.0? I wanted to see GPU transitions added. Will we get Open GL instead of CUDA? I am sure we will get some new features but I forget what everyone wanted. What were your request? Do you even remember what you requested? If I remember correct some folks wanted to Zoom in on titles.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 15, 2012 4:24 AM   in reply to medeamajic

    GPU transitions...well, some transitions are already GPU-accelerated in PPro.

     

    As for Open GL, I'll assume you meant Open CL. For that, I honestly wouldn't hold my breath. I have no insider information, but I'm making an assumption that rather than try to diversify the 3rd party hardware support, Adobe has instead spent more time refining the ways in which CUDA is harnesed by the CS5 apps. There's only so many hours in a day, and again, I'd have to guess that CUDA is going to be the continued route for Adobe for the simple reason that they're already doing it and more people would be better served by an increase in the quality of the hardware MPE implementation, which would be most efficiently accomplished by increasing development down that stream rather than diversifying the hardware used. Again, it's just my guess. It doesn't affect me because I don't care...I'm happy to buy a qualified Nvidia GPU and just go to work. Other people have other preferences.

     

    Here are some things that I want to see:

    - More than 4 angles in the multicamera workflow (this would be a pretty big miss if it's not there....multicam has been in since what, CS2? So far it has improved very little or really not at all...6 years going, time to improve)

    - Better audio handling for nested sequences

    - More/better options in titler (3D controls, for example, and the ability to use project assets - photos - inside a title)

    - More transparent MPE operation, especially with alpha channels (right now, assets with alpha channels in the timeline have issues...those issues go away when MPE acceleration is turned off)

     

    I'm not sure what else Adobe will have in store. I'm on CS5, so there are some things that are in CS5.5 that I haven't had and I'm looking forward to (AME drag-and-drop for instance). Also looking forward to the "creative cloud" and seeing what exactly that turns out to be. Would be exciting if it's really just $49/month to get basically all of the creative suite apps plus the extra cloud features.

     
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    Mar 15, 2012 6:48 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    You can drop photos in a title if you want to.

    Just use the logo option.

     
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    Mar 15, 2012 8:07 AM   in reply to medeamajic

    There were some hints that Adobe might have MPE Hardware Acceleration for non-nVidia cards "sometime in the future," but of course no one, who knows, could say "when." CS 6? Maybe, but I doubt it.

     

    My favorite Feature Requests have been:

     

    • Zoom in on Title in Titler Panel
    • Grids/Guides in Titler
    • Full compliment of Alignment/Arrangement of Objects in Titler, a la PS, or AI
    • Default name for "Title Based on Existing" to that of the Title, that one is basing on, incremented by one, rather than "Title XX," where the number is incremented based on the number of Titles created in that Project, even if all have been renamed.
    • Spell-check (a good one) in Titler
    • I forget the rest...

     

    Wonder if any will make it - maybe we'll know by NAB?

     

    Hunt

     
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    Mar 15, 2012 8:13 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    Ann Bens wrote:

     

    You can drop photos in a title if you want to.

    Just use the logo option.

     

    I'm aware of the logo option and the general ability to have photos and graphics inside a title object...that is precisely why I have worded it as "and the ability to use project assets - photos - inside a title" (emphasis on "project assets," which would be distinct from assets that are not in the project). Having to browse outside the application for an asset that is already in the project is essentially importing something twice.

     

    Likewise, since the logo option is inside the title designer, this means that the workflow to include a logo in multiple distinct (emphasis on "distinct") titles becomes more convoluted than it "should" be. Copy/paste operations and "New title based on current" options aside, it really should be something that can be dragged-and-dropped just like all other assets in a project. One man's opinion, but you have to agree that the way images are handled in the title designer is distinct from the way images are handled in all the other Adobe applications. Dreamweaver, Photoshop, After Effects....all are very drag-and-drop friendly across the board, but the titler inside Premiere Pro is an app within an app.

     
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    Mar 15, 2012 8:21 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Bill Hunt wrote:

     

     

    • Zoom in on Title in Titler Panel
    • Grids/Guides in Titler
    • Full compliment of Alignment/Arrangement of Objects in Titler, a la PS, or AI
    • Default name for "Title Based on Existing" to that of the Title, that one is basing on, incremented by one, rather than "Title XX," where the number is incremented based on the number of Titles created in that Project, even if all have been renamed.
    • Spell-check (a good one) in Titler
    • I forget the rest...

     

    Wonder if any will make it - maybe we'll know by NAB?

     

    Hunt

     

    • YES!
    • YES!
    • Which align/distribute options are you looking for? (Can't say I've come up short on those, but I do frequently do my layouts in PS or AE so maybe I've just missed it)
    • YES!
    • YES! (although most of my titles are proper nouns, so it wouldn't be terribly handy for 90% or so of my projects)

     

    I'm sure we'll know a whole lot more in about 1 month. It is likely to be announced and released - download option, at least - at the Monday sessions at NAB.

     
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    Mar 15, 2012 11:26 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    I'll let you know about new and changed features in any new version the instant that I'm allowed to do so.

     

    I can't comment on details of any future versions right now, but I can say with extreme confidence that people are going to be pleased with Premiere Pro and will see that we absolutely mean it when we say that we listen to your feedback.

     

    Stay tuned.

     

     
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    Mar 15, 2012 11:55 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Concerning the matter of:

    people are going to be pleased with Premiere Pro [...] and will see that we absolutely mean it when we say that we listen to your feedback.

     

    ...well, call me a fanboy, but I never doubted it. But then you guys usually do impress me with your annual performances, especially the last 3-4 years. Good luck!

     
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    Mar 15, 2012 3:13 PM   in reply to medeamajic
     
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    Mar 15, 2012 7:24 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Todd, I am breathless with anticipation.

     
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    Mar 15, 2012 8:38 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Todd, I don't know how involved the Adobe team was in pushing that video concept but it's gonna pay some dividends I think. Already watching my FCP buds share it around Facebook and Twitter. I think some of that stuff hits home and puts a nice fun tilt on it all.

     
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    Mar 15, 2012 8:48 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    I like the larger thumbnail views.

    I got excited when I thought that was a 12 camera multicam edit!

     

    Fun video.

     
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    Mar 16, 2012 8:57 AM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Todd,

     

    As always, you have given us little "sneak peeks," and we all understand (or should, at least), the timing. We appreciate your efforts, and will wait patiently.

     

    Thanks,

     

    Hunt

     
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    Mar 16, 2012 9:05 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    Christian,

     

    I, like you, use AI and PS for more intricate Titles/graphics. That said, Titler has quite a bit of power, and that is list is what I would like to see added to it.

     

    The Alignment/Arrangement of Objects, whether Text, or Shapes, would be the full compliment that both AI and PS already have.

     

    As I do not know the code, and exactly what would need to be added, I will shy away from saying, "hey, if the code for it exists in PS, or AI, why can't Adobe just plug that in?" It might be simple, or it might be more complex, than I would ever want to know.

     

    I'm not a big fan of bloating any one program, to include all capabilities of another program, but given the power in Titler already, a few more "bells & whistles" would be nice, so long as they did not break anything. It could save a few round-trips to PS, at least for me. Until then, I will just fire up all the Adobe programs that I need for various aspects of my Projects.

     

    Hunt

     

    PS - Oh, one last thing, and this is relative to PS, though has a basis in PrPro - add Import/Export capabilities for PRTL (PrPro Title Templates) to Photoshop.

     
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    Mar 16, 2012 10:09 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    add Import/Export capabilities for PRTL (PrPro Title Templates) to Photoshop.

     

    Or better yet, change the format of PP titles to .psd.

     
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    Mar 16, 2012 3:28 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim,

     

    I would gladly buy that too!

     

    Hunt

     
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    Mar 16, 2012 3:29 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    I think it would be great to use Illustrator as the foundation for the PP CS 6.0 titling system.

     

    The only drawback that I see is that the Rasterization would need to still be done at some point for Video.

     

    Now, Jim's suggestion to go to PSD would be useful, as those could then be Placed in InDesign.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Mar 16, 2012 10:21 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    It still has to be rasterized, though.  Titles aren't like print designs that may go to multiple uses and sizes.  Video titles are fairly fixed in size for the project.  So there's not much point in starting out with vectors for titles.

     
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    Mar 17, 2012 6:29 AM   in reply to medeamajic

    medeamajic wrote:

     

    I don't doubt adobe could make use of native vector based images for Premiere Pro's titling system.

     

    The text and shape items in the titler technically are vector items.

     

    As Jim suggested, the titles being native PSD files would be very good.

     

    Adobe Encore uses PSD layer files as the native format, and there's quite a bit of design you can do inside Encore, but you can also go into Photoshop to make fine edits on menus and buttons.

     

    That's how I'd envision the evolution of the titler inside PPro. It's good to have all the functionality that's currently in there, but just imagine how much easier it would be to migrate into After Effects with a Premiere Pro sequence if all your titles could actually be read and manipulated inside After Effects (being native PSD files, that is).

     

    Who knows...this may already have been done for CS6, we'll find out soon enough.

     
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    Mar 18, 2012 7:26 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    The Premiere Pro titles cannot realy be used for print.

     

    No, but...that isn't their intended use anyway.

     

    You can go the other way around.  Start off in Illustrator or Photoshop and use them as titles.  (But again, they still need to be rasterized.)

     
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    Mar 19, 2012 8:51 AM   in reply to medeamajic

    Again, I agree with Jim. A reversal of the workflow will do what you want. PrPro would be the end recipient, and not the originating application.

     

    Heck, his insight got me to reverse my appeal for PRTL support in PS and AI, by instead keeping the Titler output in PSD.

     

    I need to check to see what's in my coffee, as I cannot remember the last time I agreed with two of Jim's points in a row...

     

    Hunt

     
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    Mar 19, 2012 9:07 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Bill Hunt wrote:

     

    I need to check to see what's in my coffee, as I cannot remember the last time I agreed with two of Jim's points in a row...

     

     

    Tell me about it....I had to check my calendar 3 times to be sure today wasn't December 21st. I did see some horsemen earlier, but they seemed rather friendly and not quite the "harbingers-of-the-end-of-the-world" type. At least not with their sparkly boots on.

     
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    Mar 19, 2012 11:11 AM   in reply to medeamajic

    medeamajic - first of all, there's really no sense in getting rude about it with Bill and Jim (well, at least Bill...). All kidding aside, this is the lounge, where the rules are relaxed, but it's still not the place to jump all over people like that. There are better ways for you to tell people that they are not being helpful. Leave the battles to the kids over in the gaming forums, we're a fairly civil bunch here.

     

    Second, you actually never did say that you were bringing your titles or logos or anything into Premiere from Illustrator. You claim that you "stated that is what [you] have to do" and "[you] stated that [you] do it already" but you DID NOT state either of those things in your previous posts. At best you MIGHT have been implying it, but that's subjective and hardly as clear-cut of a statement as you suggest.

     

    You did talk about how you create your logos in Illustrator (or 3D programs) because they "can" be used for video and print due to the scalable nature of vector art, but all Bill and Jim were doing was clarifying for you that you can use them in Premiere Pro specifically JUST IN CASE you didn't know that already. Even I was a bit confused about whether or not you knew that. So that's 3 of your fellow participating members here in this thread that didn't entirely understand your statement, and 2 of them clarified it for you (I was a bit slow...). I don't think being on the defensive is a very good response for people just trying to help clarify a point.

     

    But to add a bit of my own clarity, anyone who ever designed a logo in Premiere instead of Illustrator needs to get pulled over by the creative police and have their creative license revoked, losing all Wacom tablet privleges and maybe even get Rodney King'd  (too soon? over the line?). Premiere is by nature a raster-based application, RGB colors. Illustrator is by nature a vector program, CMYK colors. This is not the proper place to get specific about why those two differences are so massive, but I'm sure most people do understand that around here.

     

    I think everyone DOES understand that you WANT to be able to take a quickie title job out of PPro and drop it onto an artboard in Illustrator or a layout in InDesign. Many of us would agree on how cool that could be. Really! But you're not gaining a whole lot of fans here right now.

     
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    Mar 19, 2012 12:49 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    You implied "no one should do creative work with Premiere Pro".

    How did I imply that exactly? I don't believe I said anything at all to that effect. I only implied - if anything - that people who would design something so necessarily versatile and necessarily scalable as a logo INSIDE Premiere Pro instead of Illustrator would need to reconsider how much of a creative artist they really are if they can't even select the proper computer application for the job. I certainly didn't broadly paint Premiere Pro as a non-creative application. It's for expression of video and audio creativity, that much should be clear.

     

    ...but what if someone just has PremierePro and not Illustrator? Then they could not design a logo in Illustrator now could they?

    No, naturally they could not, but that doesn't mean that graphic design should be a fully-featured toolkit built into the Premiere Pro application. I'm really not too sure what you are trying to say with this statement. Premiere Pro is incredibly useless for many things, such as whittling a toy boat out of a piece of wood, or preventing forest fires, or sailing across the ocean. It actually has some features for graphic design as it pertains to the video compilation but I would never suggest that Premiere Pro SHOULD stand as any sort of replacement for Illustrator. You can google the term "software bloat" and find many reasons for this.

     

     

    The bottom line is there was a video editing program that allowed for print exports.

    By print exports you mean vector graphics, correct? Which NLE was it that had support for Illustrator-style vector output?

     

    I imagine you are all friends

    Uh...sure. Ain't that right everybody? We're all friends? Everyone has their Adobe Best Friends Club Card handy, yes? "Friendly" maybe, but I doubt I've ever even met anyone on this forum face-to-face except Todd Kopriva, and he went to the restroom when the waiter brought the bill and I haven't seen him since. (Okay, that last part was a joke....he actually went straight to his car and left). Bottom line, most of us are trying to be HELPFUL if not friendly at least, and that's all I was suggesting that you do. To the point, 3 people misunderstood what you said, and you continue to stomp your foot at the idea of any statement you make being misunderstood simply because you believe that everything is implicit in the way that you form your words.

     

    I say this as advice to help you help us help you (and others). I'll leave this thread with a piece of advice for you that you can find in Proverbs 17:10.

     
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    Mar 19, 2012 1:47 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    It would be great if Premiere Pro did this.

     

    I guess that's where we disagree.  Though I'm not one of the Adobe programmers, I suspect it would be far easier to change the title format over to .psd files than it would be to rewrite the entire title engine to be vector based.

     

    It's about resource management.  Do we really want Adobe spending time on making titles vector based, especially when the reverse flow is already available?  I mean, I'm not saying that would be a bad thing if it happened, only that I (and I suspect many others) can think of many, many other things we'd like to see happen first.

     
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    Mar 19, 2012 6:57 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    Jim and Bill I am glad you to agree but unfortunatley you are both wrong.

     

    Well, the reason that I posted is that you are using the wrong program for print work - period. I do not care what you used in 1953, PrPro is not a program to do print work. It is a program to do broadcast work. PrPro also does not do page layout work, and one should use a program, such as InDesign for that. One can pound in a screw with a hammer, but a screwdriver is much more suited for the job. Trying to use a tool, not designed for the job will be a lose-lose proposition.

     

    When you realize that, things might be better.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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    Mar 19, 2012 6:58 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    Bill, I don't only agree that the reversal of what I want to do can be done but I stated that I do just that. So you did not agree with Jim at all. Infact you agreed with me.

    If you do "just that," why harp about PrPro not doing the same thing?

     

    You are not making any sense here.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Mar 19, 2012 7:08 PM   in reply to medeamajic

    You implied "no one should do creative work with Premiere Pro"

    I am sorry, but are you making this up, as you go along?

     

    Christian (who I have never met, but whose views I respect) never even came close to initmating such. That is a major reach. PrPro is a Video Editing program. It is NOT an Image Editng program, like PS, and it is not a Vector-based illustration program, like AI. It does what it is designed to do, very well. When it lags behind, then there are PS, AI and AE. Each program does certain things. There is some overlap, such as animation in PrPro vs AE, or Titles in PrPro's Titler vs either PS or AI.

     

    However, Video is Raster, and is not Vector. That is just the way that it is.

     

    I too have the Master Collection, plus many more apps. I use the one, that I need, for the project. It might be Painter, PS, AI, InDesign, or PrPro (for Video).

     

    Having any one program do everything is not a wise wish. What will happen is that that mega-program will do nothing well.

     

    Sorry, but I do not understand exactly what it is, that you want, other than that Video become Vector-based, in case you wish to create a logo in PrPro's Titler. I can tell you now, without my crystal ball, it ain't gonna' happen, and that is good, from where I sit.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Mar 19, 2012 7:23 PM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    Uh...sure. Ain't that right everybody? We're all friends? Everyone has their Adobe Best Friends Club Card handy, yes?

    I would say that the "friends" aspect is very weak.

     

    Jim and I are at each other's throats often. I find him abrasive, and he finds me pedantic. However, he know his stuff, and I often learn from him. When he is right, however much it hurts me, I never hesitate to tell him that he's convinced me, and that he's right.

     

    I commented, early on, about a Feature Request, that I have been posting for PS for many versions. I thought that I had a useful idea. Jim posted an even better solution, and upon reflection, I realized that I had been coming at the problem from the wrong end. Jim nailed what needed to be done. Simple as that. He had a better idea, than I did, but I can easily live with that. At the end of the day, it's about getting the Project out the door.

     

    As for Christian, I recall when he spent time around these parts, and then got busy. His comments were always something that I would reflect upon, as he too, knew his stuff. Since his return (glad to have him back), I recall two times, where we disagreed. Such is life.

     

    Still, I have never met either gentlemen, and have never traded PM's,or e-mails with either. I view them both as "respected contributors" to these forums.

     

    I am afraid that the OP has gotten things confused. I agree with both Jim and Christian, because I think they are both correct. There is no clique, or other, going on here. Sorry if it seemed so. We just happen to agree (Jim convinced me to drop on point that I had made, with his argument) on some of the issues posed. That is it.

     

    Hunt

     
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    Mar 19, 2012 7:43 PM   in reply to medeamajic
    Incase some of you folks don't know InDesign is what is used for Magazine layouts. I myself use InDesign and Dreamweaver more than Premiere Pro now days.

     

     

    First off, it is "In case," and then all of us know what InDesign is, and at least one of us (me) uses it weekly for doing what it is designed to do - page layout.

     

    The snarky attitude diminishes your points greatly. We are professionals, who use many Adobe products, and, at least in my case, use them for the job intended.

     

    I have a beautiful Snap-On roll-away tool box (read Adobe Master Collection here), and it has many Snap-On tools inside (read Adobe programs). However, I also have many Craftsman tools, some MAC tools, and a few SST's from Mercedes and Jaguar. I have all of those to do, what each was designed to do, where I need to do it. It is all about "the right tool for the job."

     

    My adjustable spanner can be useful for some things, but it is in no way universal. My pliers (maybe 40 different ones) do some things well, but not all. I have perhaps 8 sets of "socket wrenches," including offset and Snap-On "Wobblies." I have over 100 screw/Torx drivers, and they fail to handle even a simple 8-pt. nut. What I am getting at here is that one has a toolbox, with plenty of tools, and some very, very specialized ones. Not one does everything. A graphics designer is not really different, other than the Snap-On roll-away. There, it's computer programs, and suites. None does everything.

     

    If you have found an NLE, that also does Vector-based graphics for print, then please share the name. That might replace several of my tools, but only if it does everything perfectly.

     

    Here, Jim and I share the same feeling - a "Swiss Army knife" approach is not the best. I am not sure where Christian falls on that, but it seems that he feels about the same. That is why Adobe does suites - THOSE are the "Swiss Army knives."

     

    Sorry that you could not see that.

     

    Hunt

     

    PS - though I have my degree in Cinematography (after a degree in Civil Engineering), I came to PrPro, and video, from a 40 year career in advertising photography. My clients have been HP, IBM, InMos, AT&T Seagate and many, many more. I shot the IBM ad that introduced the term "PC," for "Personal Computer," so have been in the digital world, well before it was used for eiher Images, or Video.  I also did some of my later ads in PageMaker (the precursor to InDesign), and have won tons of international awards for those ads. Nah, I know what InDesign is, and how to use it.

     
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