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Prores CS5

Mar 28, 2012 5:29 AM

Can anyone play Prores on PC with Premiere?

After installing the decoder, Quicktime player can play those files but Adobe prgs won't.

I can't use the footage that cameramen come up with.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 28, 2012 6:17 AM   in reply to GeoffVane

    I can't use the footage that cameramen come up with.

     

    For your peace of mind, cameramen don't come up with Prores material. There is no camera that records in Prores. Only some half-wit MAC users convert to Prores without benefit and cause you all the trouble.

     

    Tell these cameramen to give you the source material, without them mucking things up. If they continue in this workflow, converting to Prores, you will have a SNAFU experience.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Mar 28, 2012 6:57 AM   in reply to GeoffVane

    *Avid DNxHD codec is optional upgrade - available Q1, 2012.

    http://www.atomos.com/samurai/

     

    I'm sorry that your super expensive PC is a piece of tish.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Mar 28, 2012 7:18 AM   in reply to GeoffVane

    £89 ex. VAT |  €99 ex. VAT | US$149

     

    They call it an UPGRADE for a reason.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 28, 2012 7:18 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Both CS5 and CS5.5 will play ProRes without issue IF there is only 2-channel audio. ProRes clips with 4-channel audio will NOT play in CS5, and I believe the first version of CS5.5 was an issue as well, later fixed with an update so they do now work in CS5.5.

     

    As Adobe is now offering a FREE update to CS6 to anyone purchasing any CS5.5 product right now, might be a good reason to upgrade at this time.

     

    Thanks

     

    Jeff Pulera

    Safe Harbor Computers

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 28, 2012 7:29 AM   in reply to GeoffVane
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 28, 2012 7:30 AM   in reply to GeoffVane

    He has a modular steadicam system with a Atomos Samurai recorder. It's native Prores 422.

    See if he also recorded to the camera's media.  If he did, use that.

     

    -Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 28, 2012 12:31 PM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    The camera we use here at work is an Arri Alexa & it records as ProRes 422 (HQ), ProRes 4444, and as raw files.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 28, 2012 2:05 PM   in reply to Jason Britski

    Look here for specs: http://www.arri.de/camera/digital_cameras/cameras/camera_details.html? product=9&subsection=technical_data&cHash=162d1b0527fd98e5f204488ab9cc 7257

     

    I suggest you use either Arriraw, HD-SDI or DNxHD and stay away from Prores.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 28, 2012 2:46 PM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    We have the specs.

    Not my decision.

    Decision to shoot ProRes HQ was made before production began based on what the production team wanted, the post facilty's needs for conforming the masters, & what each broadcaster wanted.

     

    In either case, that camera is an example of one that records in ProRes.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 28, 2012 3:35 PM   in reply to Jason Britski

    Yes, it's not helpful when people tell you to change your shooting format after the fact.  Since Jeff Pulera touched on what may be your issue: 2 tracks OK where you have 4 tracks, why don't you try something like this:

     

    QT Pro has the ability to add or delete tracks from QT Movies.  It's under Control-J, Edit Attributes.  Why not make a copy of your file, open it in QT Pro, delete two audio tracks, save it, and then see if Pr will let you use them? 

     

    If so, you could make another copy, delete the other two tracks (and maybe the video also), and get access to the remaining two audio tracks. 

     

    Worth a shot, maybe.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2012 1:49 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    A lot of productions shoot to ProRes with the Alexa simply because it's the cheapest option. ARRIRAW requires an external recorder such as the Codex (pricey!) and DNxHD is a paid upgrade.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2012 2:03 AM   in reply to Jon Chappell

    I understand that problem, but ProRes limits you effectively to a MAC environment (pricey!), so the price of of the Codex or DNxHD is easily recovered by staying away from MAC's.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2012 2:27 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    The Codex is $30-60k depending on the options you choose. I'm not sure of the rental price but I know that they couldn't justify the cost for the project I'm currently working on.

     

    But  it would be easy enough to offline on a PC in the codec of your choice and then use a Mac for the online.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2012 7:46 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    A fully-featured HP / Windows system isn't that much cheaper than one for Mac, when you factor in monitors, RAID, software and most of all, maintenance and downtime.  One could easily counter that the Windows platform is not worth using because it doesn't handle ProRes, the defacto standardized codec for post.  Windows users have to jump hoops to work around that staggering shortcoming, or are forced to work in AVI uncompressed, which exponentially increases storage costs, or pay for Cineform, and then deal with collaborators who are also too cheap to buy the software.

     

    ProRes is a fact of life in post.  Camera spex drive post workflows.  Only a few times in my 30 year career have I had shooters call me before they shot to ask me what codec I want.  They just use their favorite camera, and drop off the media.  I'm not going to drive business away by telling my clients I'm too cheap to buy a system that can handle all formats.  If I have to buy or rent a Sony disk player to work with XDCam 422 HD, so be it.  That opens the door to work with anybody else using that format.  I can take the work from the editors who are too cheap, and will turn away business because they "can't" do something.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Mar 31, 2012 7:55 AM   in reply to Jim Curtis
    ...ProRes, the defacto standardized codec for post.

    Huh?  I wasn't notified about that!

    Only a few times in my 30 year career have I had shooters call me before they shot to ask me what codec I want.

    I always coordinate with the shooter, if for no other reason than to

    get the proper frame rate media... and codec / format is always discussed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2012 8:13 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Everybody's business is a bit different.  I'm an independent work-from-home editor, who has been taking business away from pricey boutiques with cappucino machines and pool tables ever since I hung my shingle.  I used to work at those places.  I still do hired gun work from time to time.  Almost all of them have at least one Mac, if they're not all on Macs, as we saw a lot of business shift to FCP7 several years ago.

     

    And from what I've seen, ProRes is not only the defacto post codec, it's close to being the defacto acquisition codec since the introduction of the KiPro, and other recorders, like Cinedeck.  DNxHD will never be as versatile intermediate codec for motion graphics until Avid unties it from standardized frame sizes, or somebody comes up with an open-source, cross platform, visually lossless codec. 

     

    One of the few efficient ways to deliver a 3000 x 1000 pixel movie for a convention video is on ProRes.  DNxHD can't do it.  Uncompressed would be impossible on the playout systems.  And so on.  I've had jobs spec ProRes as the delivery format, period.

     

    A lot of people on this list are in a sheltered environment, their needs are fixed, and their capabilities are limited.  If you want to accept all comers, and take on any job, you'd better be able to handle ProRes, and you'd better have a Mac or two in your arsenal.

     

    YMMV.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Mar 31, 2012 8:22 AM   in reply to Jim Curtis

    After 18 years of working in post houses, and freelancing from home

    (like you) for the last nine years, I have NEVER edited with or delivered

    in what you claim as the 'de-facto' post production codec.

     

    Maybe I'm just living in a sheltered environment.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2012 8:42 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    What do you deliver, Joe?

     

    I do a fair amount of convention work, in addition to corporate, TV ads, and occasional long-form features and documentaries.  The convention playout system operators have lately been requiring ProRes.  And if I'm on a team working with other editors and post-houses, and my work will be compiled onto a show reel, ProRes is almost always the delivery format.  The rest of the time, I'm delivering to DG FastChannel (SD spots: MPEG2), DVDs or BR, or web formats.

     

    So, maybe I should have qualified it with "in my market."  But, without the capablity of using ProRes, my business would suffer tangibly.

     

    I can't imagine suffering through a feature edit natively editing H.264.  Without an intraframe codec, I would suffer.

     

    Do motion graphics work?  You may need a 10-bit intermediate codec for your 1000 x1000 pixel pre-renders.  ProRes 4444 is an excellent choice.

     

    If you think there's a better codec for intermediates and delivery, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Mar 31, 2012 9:01 AM   in reply to Jim Curtis

    First of all, the post houses I used to work for on national accounts are all now boarded up.

    I like to think it's guys like you and me that put them out of business.

     

    Most of my work is doing broadcast ads with DG delivery.

    I also do a whole lot of corporate / marketing and convention video work,

    but without any specialized delivery formats requiring ProRes (yet).

    I almost never have the time to spend 3-4 months working on indies or documentaries,

    but when I have, ProRes has never been in the equation.

     

    I rarely collaborate on any projects with other editors...

    but when I do, I am the one who defines the workflow.

     

    I'm not going to argue the merits of one codec over another.

    The fact is there is no overarching media codec or workflow.

    One can have their own preferences and / or limitations as defined by their hardware,

    but there are many ways to achieve professional results... including using ProRes.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2012 9:06 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    I have used Prores for many years as a mastering codec, both at facilities and from my home studio. I decided to switch to DNxHD given Apples current decisions reagarding thier products. It has been working great as a mastering codec with PrP.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Mar 31, 2012 9:12 AM   in reply to lasvideo

    You probably worked in mac-based facilities.

     

    In my years using AVID FC, MC, Symphony, DS,

    Discreet Fire, Flame, Inferno and Smoke I never encountered ProRes.

     

    But, I agree on DNxHD... it's a great cross-platform codec.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2012 9:13 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Yes, if if I was using Prores for mastering, than I am obviously in a Mac based situation. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2012 9:16 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Joe, I could tell from reading a lot of your posts here that you know what you're doing.  I find myself in agreement with you on most occasions, including this one.

     

    While I like to think along the same lines about us putting some expensive post houses out of business, I was helped in large part by Adobe, FCP and AJA.

     

    Also agree that there are many ways to get pro results. 

     

    But, I learned long ago that it rarely pays to tell a client you can't do something*, or can't handle some format.  They'll just go somewhere else.

     

    * The exceptions being, "Can you edit my feature for $1000?"  I can't do that.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Mar 31, 2012 9:18 AM   in reply to lasvideo

    I should have said 'FCP-based facilities'.

     

    All of the AVID products I used except the DS ran on a mac.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Mar 31, 2012 9:20 AM   in reply to Jim Curtis
    ...it rarely pays to tell a client you can't do something*, or can't handle some format.

    I never do that.

    I find a way to work it out, it just has never included ProRes.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2012 9:24 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Just wait until one of your clients shoots on the Sony F4 (or whatever it's called) with a Cinedeck, or Alexa.

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Mar 31, 2012 9:25 AM   in reply to Jim Curtis

    I recently had 45 minutes of HDV8 footage dumped on me that was unreadable in Premiere.

    I didn't balk, or alert the client.  I found a way to flip it to a usable format and forged ahead.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2012 9:33 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Where did that come from, The Balkans? 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 31, 2012 9:34 AM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    Hi Joe,

    What shoots on that? Can you enlighten us on what you used to flip it???? Just curious.

     

    By the way, you said you ran all those systems (not DS) on a Mac and never ran into ProRes....you lucky dog.

    I ran a DS (windows)  for years and for the last 3 of it, everyone came in with ProRes. Guess it just goes to show ya......you can never under estimate your clients needs....as Jim wisely stated.

     

    Pete

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
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    Mar 31, 2012 10:26 AM   in reply to EditorPete

    What shoots on that? Can you enlighten us on what you used to flip it???? Just curious.

    It was a rookie corporate employee who shot the footage of a

    company's operations for a marketing piece that I was editing.

    They didn't have the budget for a professional shoot,

    so they did it internally with their 'Media Department'.

     

    I used the WinFF video converter.

    It was slow and laborious, but I got decent results.

    I ran a DS (windows)  for years and for the last 3 of it, everyone came in with ProRes.

    Maybe it's because I got out of post houses in 2004 ahead of the predominance of FCP-based editing.

    Also, 99.9% of my material was delivered on tape from film transfer houses.

     
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