Adobe Community: How to save metadatas in RAW files (and not in external .XMP sidecar file)

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1. johnbeardy,

Apr 1, 2012 6:50 AM in reply to josh_hsoj

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You can't save metadata directly to the raw file in Lightroom. You can only save it to an XMP sidecar file - a text file with XMP as its file extension and containing data that is written in XMP format.

To avoid sidecar files, consider converting your raw files to DNG. Metadata is written to these files in XMP format, but within the DNG.

Clearer?

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2. -Agfaclack-,

Apr 1, 2012 7:26 AM in reply to josh_hsoj

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as johnbeardy wrote..... that was the one point that made we switch to the DNG format.

i can´t stand all the extra XMP files.

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3. josh_hsoj,

Apr 1, 2012 10:22 AM in reply to johnbeardy

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1) Is the RAW to DNG conversion destructive or not ?

(ie if I delete the original RAW, and I keep the DNG only, can I recover the original RAW later ?)

2) Antother thing :

The fact that it's impossible to store keywords INSIDE raw files is VERY annoying.

If I put keywords with Lightroom, NO OTHER software will be able to see these keywords.

(For example viewers like Picasa, XnView, or other non-Adobe softwares etc. don't see .XMP sidecar files , and thus don't see keywords).

Any solution for that problem ?

I don't want to spend countless hours to add keywords, and then notice that the keywords only work in LR

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4. johnbeardy,

Apr 1, 2012 10:38 AM in reply to josh_hsoj

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Do you think it's wise to write keywords into proprietary files whose format is not publicly-available? That's why it's like this, and there are plenty of painful examples of things going wrong.

All the raw file's data is taken to the raw file. If you want to reconstitute the raw file itself, either include the raw file in the DNG (the DNG converter can extract it later) or save the raw file in a secondary archive and treat it as extra backup.

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5. josh_hsoj,

Apr 1, 2012 10:44 AM in reply to johnbeardy

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You're right, I agree with you.

But the keywords put with Lightroom (and saved in .XMP files) won't be seen by any other software than LR or other Adobe softwares!

(Other softwares won't understand the .xmp sidecar files....)

That's a problem !

Is there a solution for this ?

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6. bob frost,

Apr 1, 2012 11:07 AM in reply to josh_hsoj

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I use PhotoMechanic to keyword my nef files, and I use ExifTool/ExiftoolGUI to transfer gps and location data from xmp files to my nefs (after geolocating in LR). I then delete the xmp files after the transfer. So it can be done, but not within LR. I check the altered nefs in NikonView afterwards; if it opens them they are OK.

Bob Frost

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7. dj_paige,

Apr 1, 2012 11:15 AM in reply to josh_hsoj

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But the keywords put with Lightroom (and saved in .XMP files) won't be seen by any other software than LR or other Adobe softwares!

This simply isn't true. There are a lot of non-Adobe software that will recognize keywords in .xmp files. I would imagine that almost all photographic software will recognize them.

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8. josh_hsoj,

Apr 1, 2012 11:16 AM in reply to johnbeardy

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I just did a small test :

I converted one of my .PEF (Pentax) RAW file into DNG. The keywords are now stored INSIDE the DNG.

But no other software is able to see these keywords :

* XnView is unable to see them

* Picasa : idem

* PhotoME (well known for its ability to see metadatas in a file!) : idem : impossible to see these keywords.

Is it normal that no other software than LR can see keywords stored inside a DNG file ?

THanks

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9. josh_hsoj,

Apr 1, 2012 11:21 AM in reply to dj_paige

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This simply isn't true. There are a lot of non-Adobe software that will recognize keywords in .xmp files. I would imagine that almost all photographic software will recognize them

Do you have a few examples ? All viewers that I've tested don't recognize sidecar .xmp files.

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10. -Agfaclack-,

Apr 1, 2012 5:02 PM in reply to josh_hsoj

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josh_hsoj wrote:

I just did a small test :

I converted one of my .PEF (Pentax) RAW file into DNG. The keywords are now stored INSIDE the DNG.

But no other software is able to see these keywords :
* XnView is unable to see them
* Picasa : idem
* PhotoME (well known for its ability to see metadatas in a file!) : idem : impossible to see these keywords.

Is it normal that no other software than LR can see keywords stored inside a DNG file ?

THanks

well acdsee, exif tool and even the windows explorer can see them (windows explorer maybe because i have an extra RAW viewer plugin installed.. im not 100% sure).

photome.. mhm.. just tried it... crashes here whenever i want to open an DNG file. not very convincing. maybe because it´s a beta.

i read (not tested by me) the following tools support XMP data in DNG

BreezeBrowser Pro

CameraBits - Photo Mechanic

FastPictureViewer

iView MediaPro

Photools - IMatch

irfan view + plugin maybe?

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11. MarvinFoster,

Apr 21, 2012 7:42 AM in reply to josh_hsoj

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Make sure you are updating the dng files with the metadata either by Command (Mac) / Control (Win) + S or Catalog Settings > Metadata > Automatically Write Changes into XMP

It's a horridly named catalog setting since if you are using DNG you don't have XMP files but it does the same thing, it updates the dng with the catalog settings.

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12. -Agfaclack-,

Apr 21, 2012 8:17 AM in reply to MarvinFoster

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MarvinFoster wrote:

It's a horridly named catalog setting since if you are using DNG you don't have XMP files but it does the same thing, it updates the dng with the catalog settings.

XMP does not mean XMP FILES per se.

XMP is a metadata format/standard. so it´s not horrible named but simply missunderstood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Metadata_Platform

XMP can be used in several file formats such as PDF, JPEG, JPEG 2000, JPEG XR, GIF, PNG, HTML, TIFF, Adobe Illustrator, PSD, MP3, MP4, Audio Video Interleave, WAV, RF64, Audio Interchange File Format, PostScript, Encapsulated PostScript, and proposed for DjVu. In a typical edited JPEG file, XMP information is typically included alongside Exif and IPTC Information Interchange Model data.

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13. bob frost,

Apr 22, 2012 10:30 AM in reply to MarvinFoster

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From: "MarvinFoster

It's a horridly named catalog setting since if you are using DNG you don't
have XMP files but it does the same thing, it updates the dng with the
catalog settings.

Not really horrid - it does update the xmp storage part of a dng file. My

nefs, jpgs, tiffs, and psds all store xmp metadata alongside the exif, and

iptc metadata.

Bob Frost

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How to save metadatas in RAW files (and not in external .XMP sidecar file)

Apr 1, 2012 5:54 AM

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