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eyeofGod
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No Crop sizing resolution box

Mar 25, 2012 6:46 PM

In CS5 one can select the Crop box and then along along the top bar, you could either type in the snze of the photo and its rez. CS6 doesn't have that feature in the top menu like CS5 does. I'm a PJ and need to quickly size up my photos, select a rez for a magazine of newspaper before wiorking on the image, save then send it off to the client. I know this may all sound a bit old fashion, but if this feature could be added back in, would make it easy for those so use to doing it the old way which in some cases, is faster. At least to me it was.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 25, 2012 7:05 PM   in reply to eyeofGod

    It's now tucked away under the dropdown menu on the top left of the Options Bar, with the Crop Tool active. The option is Size and Resolution. It may not be 'quick access', but the option is still there.

     
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    Apr 3, 2012 11:26 AM   in reply to Howard Pinsky

    Please give us back the resolution box on the properties bar on the crop tool.  That is something I use often and it is as important as image size boxes.  I do understand that it is "tucked away" under a drop down menu, but that is time defeating.  Also I would like to have the ability to have inches as default on the size input in the properties bar.

     

    Too much messing with the crop tool in V6.  If it's not broke..... don't fix it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2012 12:11 PM   in reply to eyeofGod

    I have to agree that "hiding" the resolution box for the crop tool is a step backwards and slows me down.  Please put it back, or give us the option to put it back as "classic mode".

     

    I would also add the the new button to rotate a crop is not necessary.  Why add a new button when the 'x' between the crop dimensions (the old method of reversing the crop dimensions) is still there?  Something new to learn without a valid reason.  (If there is a reason, please tell us.)  I'm all for improvement, but this just seems to be change for "change sake".

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2012 12:35 PM   in reply to Monte Photo

    I agree with Monte and jecphoto:

     

    Yes - please put the resolution box back. This is a fundamental aspect of image specification for print.

    I really can't understand, or believe that it's been removed. Why?

     

    Sometimes I do wonder if the people who are modifying this program ever actually use it for work in the real world...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2012 5:33 PM   in reply to Monte Photo

    While I agree that an option allowing the user to get the Resolution field in the Options Bar of the Crop Tool may be a good idea, I do understand why it was removed.Too many users were inadvertently setting its value to some unfathomable number, such as 1 or 3,000.  While helping the careless user, the new scheme is a slight inconvenience to those who often use the Crop Tool to resample the cropped image as well.

     
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    Apr 3, 2012 5:52 PM   in reply to station_one

    Photoshop is a professional product designed for professionals.  Please do not dumb down the product for the amature.  That is why they created Photoshop Elements.

     
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    Apr 3, 2012 6:28 PM   in reply to jecphoto

    jecphoto wrote:

     

    Photoshop is a professional product designed for professionals.  Please do not dumb down the product for the amature.  That is why they created Photoshop Elements.

     

    Oh, I've run across some careless pros as well.  Nobody is perfrect.  My guess is Adobe staff grew tired of typing "Look at the Resolution field in the options bar" in response to those who couldn't understand why their files had suddenly grown to the GB range or were reduced to a 1 pixel speck after using the Crop Tool. 

     

    I've also known amateurs who know Ps better than some pros. 

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,526 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Apr 3, 2012 6:44 PM   in reply to station_one

    Well said, station_one.  My response was going to be something along the lines of "pros or amateurs, we're all human, and can always use fewer gotchas in life."

     

    That said, I'm not fond of guardrails.

     

    I wonder if a pop-up dialog that warned about settings that "smell" off the mark, and with a [ ] Don't Show Again box wouldn't have been a better approach...  Imagine...  A newbie does something silly, like crop their image down to 1 pixel, and Photoshop (sensing this ridiculous result) warns him to check the values in those fields.  As today, once he's aware of what's gone wrong, he remembers this, and next time it happens he fixes it without prompting.  Either the first time - or sooner or later when he does it again by accident - he checks [ ] Don't Show Again.  Now we have the power of having all those fields right out there where we can see 'em, and tech support gets fewer newbie calls.

     

    But what they've done is what they've done, and there's probably no point in debating it now.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2012 7:05 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Agreed, Noel.

     

    I'll just add that I wasn't cheering Adobe for this move, just saying I could understand why they may have gone this route.  That's all.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2012 7:58 PM   in reply to station_one

    (a bit of a rant, sorry)

    Previous Crop Tool was giving people a loaded gun. Damn PPI. I'd rather not see it at all. Good to hide it.

     

    If you don't know what "resample" means, then don't.

    In the next PS, I would like to see Resample unchecked by default in the Image Size dialog box too.

     

    In my work... everyone I deal with has some version of Photoshop. And the biggest problem I have is people cropping or resizing while unknowingly resampling pixels. ARGH!

     
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    Apr 4, 2012 2:30 AM   in reply to charles badland

    I am somewhat stunned when I read this thread. Having commented yesterday and left my desk last night (UK time), I was confident I'd come back this morning to a chorus demanding that the resolution field to be reinstated.

     

    I agree with jecphoto again - Photoshop is a professional tool (and that's no disrespect to any amateur - call it an advanced level tool if you prefer). That implies that users need to gain some skill in understanding it and using it.

     

    I'm a Photoshop ACI and some of the first subjects I cover are the fundamentals of image size and resolution. This is also the case for many of the ACI's I know. Image size and resolution is a (if not the) fundamental base to image editing.

     

    If station-one is right, and that field has been removed to 'protect the ignorant', then I'm (very) saddened - and it bodes ill for the future of Photoshop as the professionals tool of choice.

     

    I do understand (having taught it for over 15 years) that the concepts of image size and resolution are not the easiest subjects to grasp for those new to image editing and Photoshop, but that doesn't mean they can be ignored. I also appreciate Charles' frustrations (above), but If the resolution field is removed there will still be just as many resolution issues as before - the numbers will just be different, but it will, once again, damage the work-flow of the professional user.

     

    The crop tool in CS5 was a good tool IMO, because users could learn the crop tool and it was a good substitute for the Image > Image size dialogue in the vast majority of situations. Removing the resolution field in CS6 cripples that functionality.

     

    Adobe: please reinstate this field!

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 4, 2012 5:21 AM   in reply to Mike_Abbott

    You do understand that it's not REmoved, just MOVED, rightt?

     

    Read post #1 carefully.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 5:34 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Yes Noel, I do.

     

    Perhaps I should have been more specific and said 'removed from the options bar'.

     

    Something as fundamental as that shouldn't be hidden away.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 6:23 AM   in reply to Mike_Abbott

    Mike, Very eloquently put, thank you for your response.  If Adobe does not correct this in CS6, I think we shall see the resolution box reappear in CS7. 

     

    I have many friends who live in Photoshop daily that have not take the time to download the beta of CS6 and evaluate.  When I mention to them what has happened to the crop tool they are shocked that you have to dig to get to the control of what is a fundamental and very needed part of the size of your image. 

     

    I feel you will see, as Mike stated, the chorus demanding that the resolution field to be reinstated as soon as CS6 is released and those that live in it daily realize what has happened.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 8:20 AM   in reply to eyeofGod

    I fully agree with you. I found it convenient to see the resolution and the measurements in inches (or whatever you use) as well as the little arrow that would reverse 5x7 to 7x5. These are all small things, but multiplied by the number of images in which you use them, they add up. I hope Adobe will listen and throw these back in.

     

    (I also hope they will do something to make the adjustment layer icons clearer so we can go back to clicking instinctively instead of having to stop-focus-choose.)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 8:46 AM   in reply to eyeofGod

    This is one of those cases where everyone has an opinion and it's impossible to make everyone happy. I've been working with PS so long that I do most actions without thinking. It's all burned into memory. And just like all the other keystrokes and shortcuts and other things that have changed with each new release, this too will become automatic in short time.

    I agree with everyone.

    It's different and I had to stare at the new crop setup for a couple mintues to retrain myself. On the other hand, getting used to the change happened so fast that I have already forgotten what it looked like in CS5. Personally, I really like the crop features and find the new resolution dialog box with it's presets and 'save presets' options very useful.

     

    Come on folks, things have to evolve and change. I would be disappointed if things didn't change.

     
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    Apr 4, 2012 9:00 AM   in reply to Jeff Holter

    I am all for change if the change is an improvement..... But change just for "change sake" is self defeating.  It would be like taking the parking brake on your car and putting it in the glove compartment,  would I get use to it..... eventually,  but it sure would be inconvenient.

     
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    Apr 4, 2012 9:18 AM   in reply to jecphoto

    I completely agree with that. Change for change's sake is counterproductive. However, this one appears to be a reasonable and sensible update. If part of the crop tool's functions and features are being updated, it would only make sense to do it all collectively as a unit.

     
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    Apr 4, 2012 10:41 AM   in reply to Jeff Holter

    Hi,

     

    Something that hasn't been brought up yet which might help alleviate some of the frustration concerns single key shortcuts. After you've activated the crop tool so it's in the semi-modal state (Reset, Cancel, Commit icons displayed in the Options bar), you can press the 'R' key to bring up the 'Crop Image Size & Resolution' dialog. You can also press the 'X' key to change the width and Height values.

     

    I know this doesn't put the resolution field back in the Options bar, but does afford quick access to change that value for those who need it.

     

    regards,

    steve

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,526 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Apr 4, 2012 12:34 PM   in reply to jecphoto

    jecphoto wrote:

     

    I am all for change if the change is an improvement..... But change just for "change sake" is self defeating.  It would be like taking the parking brake on your car and putting it in the glove compartment,  would I get use to it..... eventually,  but it sure would be inconvenient.

     

    Anecdotally, I just got to drive a new Chrysler 300 for a week while my car was in for extensive repairs.

     

    The car has no key, just a key fob and a Start button, which only works if the fob is in the vicinity and you press the brake and Start button simultaneously.

     

    First few times I got into the thing I found myself with the fob trying to figure out where to put it, to start the car, or pressing the button without my foot on the brake.  Things seemed very awkward, and I found myself thinking, "why would they eliminate something so basic as the key to start the car?"   Beyond that, whenever I would approach the car I was pulling out the key fob and unlocking the doors with the button.  Seemed only natural.

     

    Then I discovered I didn't really need to do that - it would unlock the doors if I walked up to it with the fob in my pocket and just touched the door handle.

     

    By the end of the week I was confidently just walking up to the car, opening the door, belting in, putting my foot on the brake, pressing Start, and driving off.  The fob stayed in my pocket.

     

    Then I got my car back and I found myself thinking, "gee, this seems inconvenient..." 

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 1:02 PM   in reply to SG...

    SG... wrote:

     

    Something that hasn't been brought up yet which might help alleviate some of the frustration concerns single key shortcuts

     

    Steve,

    Thanks for the response. I think most, if not all, of the participants in this discussion are aware of the new shortcuts, but it's good to have them stated.

     

     

    Just so my position is clear on this, as I've been fairly robust in my requests for the reinstatement of the resolution field  - I actually like much of the new crop tool - I think the new rotation method will be more logical to new users, the presets and ability to save custom presets is great, the inclusion of the straighten tool in the options bar...  lots of good stuff.  It's just this one bug-bear which is the fly in the ointment so to speak.

     

    Some other minor things to consider:

     

    The reverse dimensions button:

    Others above have mentioned this. The double arrows in CS5 were easy to understand. Why the new circular arrow icon? This looks too much like other undo or reset incons. Monte-photo (above) made an interesting suggestion about using the 'x' between the boxes as an active area / button to do this. This would reduce clutter and make sense as 'X' is the shortcut to do this. I also wonder if the numbers should swap positions - but I do realise that the numbers can be considered more of an aspect ratio than a H x W, so that is certainly debateable

     

    The perspective crop option:

    Is this missing in action? I didn't use it often, but when I did need it is was very useful.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 12:56 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Exactly!

    That's why I embrace change. It's what keeps us thinking and moving forward!

     
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    Apr 4, 2012 12:56 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel,  good analogy...... but until Photoshop can read my mind as to the resolution I want applied to the image I am cropping, I still think the resolution field should be on the Options Bar.

     
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    Apr 4, 2012 1:04 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    That was a good read Noel, but these sort of analogies are just ike cars - they break down

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 1:04 PM   in reply to Mike_Abbott

    Hi Mike -

     

    The Perspective Crop is still there, just not in the top bar. It's now in a contextual menu in the Tools, behind the Crop Tool.

     

    This one had me looking around for a bit too, since I use it frequently, but I guess it makes sense since most of the other tools work the same way.

     
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    Apr 4, 2012 1:10 PM   in reply to Jeff Holter

    Many thanks Jeff, - got it

     

    ... and would you believe it, this didn't get the full CS6 workover - so it has the resolution box, and the old way of working. A deliberate choice? Or did they just run out of time and stick the CS5 version in there??

     
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    Apr 4, 2012 1:22 PM   in reply to Mike_Abbott

    That's a good question, Mike. I was wondering about the Crop features too, and why some things are radically different and some haven't really changed. I am pretty happy with it overall though. I like the features.

     

    Over the last couple of years I've been working mostly with developers and the one fact I've learned is that they all have their process and a damn good reason for doing whatever they do (according to them!).

    So I just accept it and move on because we have our own ways of doing things that they question just as much!

     

    It's a process.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 2:21 PM   in reply to Mike_Abbott

    Hi Mike,

     

    I'm not dismissing the discomfort you and other express about the missing resolution field. I'm glad you like many of the changes, and sorry that the removal of the resolution input on the Tool Options bar frustrates. At least one big driving factor for its removal was the space available on the Tool Options bar for minimum screen requirements.

     

    The separation of Crop tool and Perspective Crop tool was intentional. We didn't have to time to change the Perspective Crop UI, but having them separate makes it that much easier in the future.

     

    regards,

    steve

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 1:16 PM   in reply to SG...

    hate the crop tool configuration, I liked the way it is in CS5 where you can choose the dpi with out having to set a preset.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 11, 2012 6:23 PM   in reply to eyeofGod

    I have been using Photoshop for over a decade now, and I am also ACE certified.  I strongly feel that the resolution box should be reinstated to its former position as well.  I would much rather have the resolution box instead of the "straighten" option.  For those of us in the printing business, in which this is a crucial part of workflow, having it readily available is essential.  Just hitting one extra key for literally thousands of photos can really add up timewise.  Furthermore, I imagine that most people running Photoshop are using a larger screen (if not multiple screens) in order to get work done.  I am not sure what is meant by "minimum screen requirements," but using too small a screen is inefficient.  That being said, I do like some of the other changes done to the crop tool.  If we could just enable a different view that would bring it back, I imagine it would be appreciated by many more than just those who have just posted on this forum.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2012 4:34 PM   in reply to eyeofGod

    PLEASE bring back the resolution box! I believe that setting resolution is an integral part of the cropping process in PhotoShop. You HAVE to decide what your resolution is going to be, even if it is going to remain the same as pre-crop. The resolution is as important to a crop as the dimensions/ratio. I know for my workflow, there isn't a single time that I use the crop tool without setting the resolution as well. Removing this box is a step BACKWARDS.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 13, 2012 5:51 PM   in reply to visualalchemy

    Many people work differently when working with their images, workflows, and tools.

     

    I don't know offhand the exact reasoning as to why the resolution fields were moved, but there are ways to work with it, and if you're planning on typing a value into the fields for resolution, that means you're near your keyboard at least. Right?

     

    Does the R key while using the crop tool not work for those that are disagreeing with the change?

    As it is now, if you know what you're doing with Crop and want to include resolution adjustments with your crop, you can know how to get to the window easily ...

     

    With the Crop tool selected, click on your image once, and press the R key on your keyboard. The Size and Resolution dialog pops up.

     

    Most professionals are eager to find out the keyboard shortcuts for their frequently used settings, as they tend to speed up their workflows.

    I encourage you to utilize this keyboard shortcut.

     

    Cheers.

     
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    Apr 13, 2012 6:14 PM   in reply to visualalchemy

    I know I'm in the minority, but I don't miss the PPI crop input one bit.

    For the most part, people place way too much importance on PPI without understanding what it really means. Or what it does.

     
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    Apr 13, 2012 6:14 PM   in reply to Pete.Green

    This one I just can't see what all the fuss is about. Sure, it's a little different than the way it was before but like Pete says, there's the R keyboard shortcut. It took me about 3 minutes to locate and realize all the differences in the new crop tool and it took another 2 minutes for me to memorize it and be able to access it with one keystroke.

     

    Things have to change folks. If they didn't, we'd still be looking at the OS 9 UI.

     
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    Apr 13, 2012 6:22 PM   in reply to charles badland

    Amen to that!

     
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    Apr 13, 2012 6:23 PM   in reply to Jeff Holter

    The users that actually need a specific PPI, can easily change their workflow.

     

    For most users... the concept that PPI actually has anything to do with Image Resolution are mistaken...

    it is just half of an equation.

     

    The ONLY thing PPI describes is how big a pixel will print, if or when the file is ever sent to a printing device.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 13, 2012 6:42 PM   in reply to charles badland

    Perhaps this change will be the incentive to get people to think harder about what resolution really is, and that can't be a bad thing.

     

    -Noel

     
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    Apr 13, 2012 7:55 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Yes.

    (here I go on my soapbox)

    I would like to see the term “resolution” be distinct from PPI.  Call PPI something more appropriate, like Pixel Size or Pixel Density. This would help eliminate some of the confusion.

    People hang their hat on a RESOLUTION PPI NUMBER, thinking that a “high res” image has something to do with PPI. Or that a web bound image must be a certain PPI. Nonsense!

     

    I would wager over half of PS users have no idea that when they input a PPI into a crop dialog, they are making a real and permanent alteration of their original image through resampling. Most of the time needlessly.

     

    (Certainly there are exceptions.)

     
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