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coreyarte
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Adjustments Panel Useless Now?

Apr 3, 2012 4:58 AM

Ive been using cs6 at work and at home and I used to use adjustments panel a lot. However it doesnt really do anything anymore (i use layers window for creating adjustment effects anyway) now that property window is available. Should adjustments window be taken away? Or should properties? None? If so why?

 

Also while im here i should also say that theres a bug i get at work on cs6 but now at home. I try to create a color balance adjustment layer and it will keep creating a levels. I think this is only one a file by file basis though because sometimes it does work.

One last thing, it would be nice to be able to pan around the canvas anytime I want. Cs6 auto snaps everything to the center of the canvas even more so than cs5. I can only pan if I zoom in first.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2012 9:59 AM   in reply to coreyarte

    The Adjustments panel now is limited to creating new adjustment layers, while the actual adjustment controls are in the Properties panel. The Properties panel also is used to edit any masks on a layer as well as controls for 3D layers.

     

    We debated getting rid of the Adjustment panel altogether, but kept it as a convenient way to create new adjustment layers. Despite their advantages, many users still do not know about or use adjustment layers, and still use the "old style" adjustments which are not re-editable or maskable.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Dec 23, 2006
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    Apr 3, 2012 10:08 AM   in reply to coreyarte

    For what it's worth, as I happened to never get used to using those buttons (for whatever reason I've just always chosen Layer - New Adjustment Layer - ... from the menu), I just don't show the Adjustments panel any more.

     

    And PDFerguson, some people who know what they're doing sometimes still use "old style" pixel manipulations on purpose. 

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2012 10:24 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    ...which is why we haven't gotten rid of them, even though adjustment layers do everything "non-layer" adjustments do and much more.

     

    I agree the Adjustment panel isn't terribly useful and many folks will use other means to create new adjustment layers (after working on this feature for two versions, I *still* cannot easily differentiate the button iconography of several adjustment types.)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2012 10:57 AM   in reply to coreyarte

    Hi Corey,

     

    I see what you're referring to, and it worked that way in CS5. When fields are part of a palette, we have to be a bit more careful how and when we set the text cursor than when we are in a modal dialog, and so it is necessary to click in the text box you want to modify. Once your cursor is there, you can change the shadows/midtones/highlights popup without affecting the text cursor, and you can Tab among the three text fields as well.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2012 12:21 PM   in reply to PDFerguson

    "...even though adjustment layers do everything "non-layer" adjustments do and much more. "

     

     

    As Noel hints - that's not quite true, of course : ) It's not infrequently that I might use an old style adjustment on an individual channel for example.

     

    As far as the adjustments panel is concerned - I'll be hitting the 'x to close box' and will be glad to see the back of it. The adjustment icons took up far too much interface room for zero gain and I don't know anyone who ever used the preset list. The layer panel adjustments menu remains a much better route of access.

     

    It seems that sometimes iconography madness takes over and we are faced with buttons / icons when a simple text list - as per the layer panel menu - is easier to understand and faster to access. If you can't remember the iconography, what chance does a new user have?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2012 1:39 PM   in reply to Mike_Abbott

    Coreyarte - "I try to create a color balance adjustment layer and it will keep creating a levels."  Could you explain this further? Or, better yet, grab a screenshot or Jing video when it occurs, please. Please include the entire app in the shot, not just the panel. Thank you!

     

    AdjPanel.jpg

    The Adjustments panel does show the name of the Adjustment Layer type when you mouse-over it, and if you pause for a moment, a tool tip appears.

     

    Meredith

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 3, 2012 1:49 PM   in reply to PDFerguson

    PDFerguson wrote:

     

    ...after working on this feature for two versions, I *still* cannot easily differentiate the button iconography of several adjustment types.)

     

    Thank you for mentioning this.  Now I feel better about experiencing the same. 

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
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    May 24, 2010
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    Apr 3, 2012 3:32 PM   in reply to station_one

    It took me a couple of goes to home in on a useable workspace because some of the palettes are of an odd size now, and it was a matter of doing a jigsaw puzzle fitting the panels together in a meaningful way. I never use the menus if I can help it, and the same applies to pop-ups, pop-downs, or anything that requires more than a single click on a palette icon. I mean why would you? I had to compromise with the workspace below because the only panels I could stack under the Adjustment panel were Tool presets (which I rarely use), and Layer comps (which I occasionally use). But Adjustments needs to be close to hand, and under the Properties panel made most sense to me. Perhaps I'll fetch Paths and Channels back under the Adjustment panel, and control my OCD enough to put up with the dead space it would create.

     

    Workspace.jpg

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Dec 23, 2006
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    Apr 3, 2012 3:52 PM   in reply to Trevor Dennis

    Looks good, Trevor!

     

    Just to show how differently two people can work with Photoshop...  Here's what's on my second monitor.

     

    SecondMonitorLayout.png

     

    I have a few holes, but I've found those can be helpful for doing things like activating the browser while awaiting something to finish in Photoshop... 

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
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    May 24, 2010
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    Apr 4, 2012 3:14 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel, that is interesting indeed. So your main monitor is completely clean other than the Options bar? What aspect ratio is your main monitor? Mine is 1920 x 1200, and with the options bar reducing the height, I seldom have an image file that needs the full width of the screen, so I have a number of panels on fly-outs top right corner. The tool bar is probably more useful as a visual reference than to be clicked on, because Iike most everyone here, I use shortcuts, or Shift shortcut to toggle through a tool's options. Plus I have removed the shortcut from those items I never or rarely use, so I can toggle through the others more quickly. You can free up some shortcut letters that way, like H for the Hand tool (because we always use the Space bar) so H becomes available for an Action or similar.

     

    I don't see your Adjustments panel, but I remember you saying you use the pop-up at the bottom of the Layers panel. That still leaves me wondering why your Properties panel is so far away? You've got more screen real-estate for your Histogram than for your Layers! I use my eyes for colour, and sometimes wish I had more than the full screen height for layers, (I often have a hundred plus) but I am stoked with the new layer filters. Thanks for that Adobe.

     

     

    Actions. I seldom use them, and know I should. Something like expanding a selection is an irritating number of clicks, and something I use a lot. But I am far to much an image control freak to trust to one click solutions most of the time.

     

    I'm looking at your navigator panel, and thinking I don't need the navigator tool, but I have never thought to use it as a full image preview. Now that would be useful. At the moment when I need to see full image preview while working at high zoom ratios, I have the same image tiled twice on my main screen. I have played with the idea of installing an extra graphics card so I could have a third monitor. Just a little 17inch one that could sit on my seldom used picture printer (I use an office printer for everything else).

     

    Yes. Thanks for the ideas. I go to a lot of conferences through the various community organisations I work for, and always think the networking and exchange of ideas, is more useful than the main program.

     

    [EDIT]  I'd love to hear/see other people's ideas about workspaces and workflow.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 7:09 PM   in reply to coreyarte

    i'd just like an option to enable adjustments to be modal if the user so desires. I don't mind if you name it "legacy".

    the modals are still there for adjustments - as long as you know how to find them.

    since CS4 i have a bunch of scripts and actions keeping me from having to use the adjustment/properties panel.

    just a simple preference to let us work the way we'd like to work.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 4, 2012 7:40 PM   in reply to Trevor Dennis

    I have two 1600 x 1200 Dell 2001FP monitors, Trevor, and yes, the Photoshop main window on the left one is normally all there for editing, though I do have the rest of the panels not shown open there if I choose to activate them.

     

    I don't show the Adjustments panel, but kick off new Adjustment layers through the menus.

     

    Navigator is one of those things you don't think you need, then if you keep it visible you'll get used to having it.

     

    Many graphics cards nowadays will support 3 monitors directly.  I know mine will (ATI 5670) and it's not too new.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 4:01 AM   in reply to PDFerguson

    PDFerguson wrote:

     

     

    We debated getting rid of the Adjustment panel altogether, but kept it as a convenient way to create new adjustment layers.

    I'm one of those who always use the icons instead of going to Layer - New Adjustment Layer (one click instead of three) so thanks for not getting rid of it.  I was very glad to see the panel reduced to those icons without the list of presets, because lots of space is saved now.

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
    5,925 posts
    May 24, 2010
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    Apr 5, 2012 4:40 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

     

    Many graphics cards nowadays will support 3 monitors directly.  I know mine will (ATI 5670) and it's not too new.

     

    -Noel

     

    I had to go with MPE capable card for Premiere Pro CS5, and have a GTX570.  It has three monitor outputs if I include the Display Port, but it can only drive any two of the three ports at the same time.   I googled your card, and see you are absolutely right, so I am green, but while I was at it I discovered USB-to-DVI addaptors which I'd previously never heard of, so I'll look into that as an option.

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
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    May 24, 2010
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    Apr 5, 2012 4:44 AM   in reply to acresofgreen

    acresofgreen wrote:

     

    PDFerguson wrote:

     

     

    We debated getting rid of the Adjustment panel altogether, but kept it as a convenient way to create new adjustment layers.

    I'm one of those who always use the icons instead of going to Layer - New Adjustment Layer (one click instead of three) so thanks for not getting rid of it.  I was very glad to see the panel reduced to those icons without the list of presets, because lots of space is saved now.

     

    Woah!!!!   I missed that first time round.  Goodness.  I'm having a cold sweat thinking about it!

     

    Mouse clicks are like heartbeats.  You only get so many and then you - or the mouse - dies.  So you don't want to rush about making your heart beat faster, or waste mouse clicks on nested menu items.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 5:31 AM   in reply to PDFerguson

    <<We debated getting rid of the Adjustment panel altogether,>>

     

    Thank you (!!!) for NOT getting rid of this panel.  I use it all the time.  I don't mind the Properties panel being associated with it, but I DO mind some of the behavior of that panel.  It always opens very small, so small that I cannot see, for instance, the entire Curves window and tools for that utility.  I click and drag to enlarge the panel to useable size and that "sticks" for as long as Photoshop is open.  But it does NOT "stick" after CS6 beta is closed.  It's a bit annoying.  Without enlarging the panel's window, whatever utility I've chosen is impossible to use. 

     

    Thanks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 8:00 AM   in reply to PDFerguson

    THANK YOU for NOT getting rid of them! I make so many adjustments and change my mind so often that I can't imagine not having adjustment layers and having to work directly on a pixel layer from the menu.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Dec 23, 2006
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    Apr 5, 2012 8:01 AM   in reply to ckc48

    Heh, I don't think there was ever any question of getting rid of Adjustment Layers entirely, just the buttons to add them.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 8:04 AM   in reply to ckc48

    they would never get rid of adjustments.

    they are talking about the panel with the icons.

     

    doesn't matter b/c since forever you can pick adjustment layers from the yin/yang icon at the bottom of the layers panel

     

    for those not liking the small properties panel - you know you can still use the huge modal adjustments

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Dec 23, 2006
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    Apr 5, 2012 8:22 AM   in reply to eclic

    Is your Properties panel smaller than this?

     

    FloatingPropertiesPanel.jpg

     

    I keep this visible all the time on my second monitor.  Is the issue that it's tiny when it's docked and auto-hides?

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 8:58 AM   in reply to poodah444

    Since I posted this morning, I discovered that my Properties window will be an appropriate size if I have it as a "button" instead of keeping it in the wider section for various panels.  Go figure.  Before, I had it docked with the Adjustments panel in that wider section and it opened up teensy tiny.  Changing where I access it has improved the situation so the panel is now useable without having to drag it larger.

     

    Noel, what you've shown is what I now have, considerably larger than before.

     

    Libby

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 9:22 AM   in reply to eclic

    eclic wrote:

     

    i'd just like an option to enable adjustments to be modal if the user so desires. I don't mind if you name it "legacy".

    the modals are still there for adjustments - as long as you know how to find them.

    since CS4 i have a bunch of scripts and actions keeping me from having to use the adjustment/properties panel.

    just a simple preference to let us work the way we'd like to work.

     

    We've heard this request before, and while we may consider this at some point, realistically I think the chances of it happening are not great.

     

    What problems are you having using scripts and actions with adjustment layers? They are scriptable and actionable, just like the old destructive adjustments were.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 9:29 AM   in reply to ckc48

    ckc48 wrote:

     

    THANK YOU for NOT getting rid of them! I make so many adjustments and change my mind so often that I can't imagine not having adjustment layers and having to work directly on a pixel layer from the menu.

     

    As Noel indicated, we have no plans to remove adjustment layers, we are only talking about the Adjustment panel which is one way (among several) to create new adjustment layers. Adjustment layers are a very important and powerful feature in Photoshop.

     

    Thanks to everyone for their feedback about the Properties panel, it is very helpful to hear whether it is useful to people. As we always do, we will continue to refine Photoshop's UI experience; we want to make the workflow around adjustment layers (and all layers generally) as easy and smooth as possible.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 9:38 AM   in reply to PDFerguson

    What I find interesting about all these discussions is just how much variance there is in each users preference. Some of us think the adjustments panel is a waste of space, some love it. Some prefer two monitors, some one. Some like the old modal dialogs, some don't... etc etc.

     

    "One man's (or woman's) meat is another man's poison"

     

    It's actually a wonder that Adobe can build this thing and keep us reasonably happy at all!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 9:49 AM   in reply to PDFerguson

    It's great that Ps is so flexible. I chuckle at Trevor's workspace (without any disrespect - whatever works is right). This is mine and it is set to auto hide all panels and  tools.
    Workspace.jpg

    I just realized that the adjustment panel was in one of my groups, and since I never use it, well it's gone now.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 1:19 PM   in reply to PDFerguson

    i know Adobe will not re-enable the modal windows - it goes against the new "always live" workflow that has been pushed.

    i just don't think it is better. it seems simple enough to enable a preference to make alot of your long time users happy.

    we do not need to be told how and where the adjustments are with a panel.

    i've been asking since CS4 and I dont see Adobe making the change - and that is very unfortunate.

     

    a simple checkbox in preferences (launch adjustment layers in legacy mode) restart PS and there you go.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 2:00 PM   in reply to eclic

    eclic wrote:

     

    i know Adobe will not re-enable the modal windows - it goes against the new "always live" workflow that has been pushed.

    i just don't think it is better. it seems simple enough to enable a preference to make alot of your long time users happy.

    we do not need to be told how and where the adjustments are with a panel.

    i've been asking since CS4 and I dont see Adobe making the change - and that is very unfortunate.

     

    a simple checkbox in preferences (launch adjustment layers in legacy mode) restart PS and there you go.

     

    I appreciate what you're saying, but it is not that simple. Making a feature like this both modal and non-modal has significant engineering implications as well as user implications (e.g scripting). To my knowledge, no other feature in Photoshop offers both modal and non-modal implementations through a preference. That's not to say it can't or shouldn't be considered, but as with all things, we have a limited amount of development resources and any work has to be prioritized against a long list of things we want to do.

     

    We feel strongly that non-destructive adjustment layers are a big step forward over the older destructive adjustments (although as others have pointed out, they still have a place.) Moving the adjustment layer controls into a panel makes it easier to see and tweak settings without having to open and close modal dialogs, keeping the image front and center, as Lightroom does for example. While we had a number of complaints when this change was first made in CS4, once users got used to the non-modal adjustments, most came to prefer them over the old modal dialogs.

     

    Thanks again for taking time to put your thoughts in writing; we do value feedback very highly, and sometimes we do reverse ourselves when enough voices call for it. In Photoshop CS6, one of the "new" features was to restore the PDF Presentation and Layer Comps to PDF features that had been moved out of Photoshop and into Bridge. We did so for just this reason, users who made a solid case that the new functionality was not as good as the old functionality. We may not always get it right, but we do always listen.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 2:15 PM   in reply to PDFerguson

    "We feel strongly that non-destructive adjustment layers are a big step forward over the older destructive adjustments (although as others have pointed out, they still have a place.)"

     

    I am talking about modal adjustment layer windows - not the modal destructive adjustments.

    I would only use the destructive ones on masks.

     

    at some point i will resurrect my many arguments for modals (I guess pre CS7) for discussion - but especially curves (the #1 adjustment for many people) works much better my way.

     

    I am happy that CS6 finally promoted fill adjustment to act like other adjustment layers - so my modal script works with those as well as the regular ones.

     

    the thing is - I am not asking to put something back that was taken out - the modal adjustments layers are still there although hidden quite well to the novice user.

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
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    May 24, 2010
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    Apr 5, 2012 2:48 PM   in reply to PixbyTed

    PixbyTed wrote:

     

    It's great that Ps is so flexible. I chuckle at Trevor's workspace (without any disrespect - whatever works is right).

    Hey, I am glad it made you smile.   

     

    I tend to work quite quickly, and I like things to be close to hand, and if I can help it, no more than a single mouse click away.   Giving layers pride of place and the full hieght of the monitor, is a no brainer, as is making the new Properties panel a decent size and close in.  The new Adjustments panel needs to be close to the Properties panel, but its fixed size caused me to place the Presets and Layer comps below it, although they are not high priority panels.   Next to Layers and Adjustments, Paths is easily my biggest priority, and having it always visible allows me to Ctrl click a work path in that panel to instantly load it as a selection.

     

    If you don't currently use a second monitor, then I seriously urge you to consider it.   It can dramatically speed up your workflow.

     

    Workspace.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 3:23 PM   in reply to eclic

    eclic wrote:

     

    "We feel strongly that non-destructive adjustment layers are a big step forward over the older destructive adjustments (although as others have pointed out, they still have a place.)"

     

    I am talking about modal adjustment layer windows - not the modal destructive adjustments.

    I would only use the destructive ones on masks.

     

    at some point i will resurrect my many arguments for modals (I guess pre CS7) for discussion - but especially curves (the #1 adjustment for many people) works much better my way.

     

    I am happy that CS6 finally promoted fill adjustment to act like other adjustment layers - so my modal script works with those as well as the regular ones.

     

    the thing is - I am not asking to put something back that was taken out - the modal adjustments layers are still there although hidden quite well to the novice user.

     

    At this point, I haven't seen any arguments for reviving the modal adjustment layer dialogs other than you just don't like them. What specifically do you mean when you say they "work much better my way"? I'm not trying to be rude, but I really don't understand what your issue is with the non-modal panel interfaces.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 3:54 PM   in reply to PDFerguson

    And I am totally confused. What is meant by modal or non-modal adjustment layers?

     

    I've always been a user of the adjustment layer panel. I prefer to have in one unit rather than split between a "control panel" housing icons,  and a disconnected "properties" panel elsewhere showing the selected icon's interface. The logic behind the re-desigh escapes me, but I'm wondering if (in this thread) I have found a NAME for what bothers me.

     

    Does modal or non-modal refer to connected or disconnected controls?

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Dec 23, 2006
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    Apr 5, 2012 4:08 PM   in reply to ckc48

    If you choose Image - Adjust - Curves, you get a modal dialog.  Most all your input goes to that dialog, and you can't do things like Pan around in your image in the main Photoshop display area.

     

    Time was, Layer - New Adjustment Layer - Curves brought up the same kind of dialog.

     

    Now, one uses the modeless Properties panel to do the task, and your input isn't focused on that panel, but is still useful for all the rest of Photoshop.

     

    Eclick appears to prefer the modal version (e.g., Photoshop CS3 and earlier) better, though I'm with PDFerguson, I'm not sure I understand why.  Just seems like another way to do the same things to me.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 6:23 PM   in reply to Trevor Dennis

    Yeah, I’d love the screen real estate of two monitors for Photoshop. You struck a chord with me though - about giving the layers panel full height. I would really like that. Generally for me when retouching I pick a tool by keyboard shortcut and use it for an hour or so before I advance my retouching action. Since ACR does such a great job now, my skill has been reduced to painting masks and as a result I seldom need to use any of the panels.

     

     

     

    My problem is the physical real estate that already contains 4 towers, 3 monitors, and one honking big printer. Maybe I’ll buy a Home Depot shed and setup in the driveway.

     
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