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Vahakn01
Currently Being Moderated

Lag, is it the cache?

Apr 4, 2012 7:29 AM

Hey All,

 

So I've been using CS6Beta for a couple of weeks now and, at first it ran very smoothly but I have recently started to experience lots of lag. I have lag when opening, closing, zooming, changing brush size etc... My file sizes range for a couple of hundered meg to gigabites in the teens and the lag happens across the board. Has anyone else had lag and resolved it? Not entierly sure if this is down to the cache, but I've left the cache and history to it's default.

 

Cheers all,

 

V

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 11:52 AM   in reply to Vahakn01

    I wish I had a answer but I am having this issue as well.  It's so bad that I have to go back to CS5.  Brushes lag when painting on masks, the screen lags when zooming or using the move tool.  I am even getting a beach ball when zooming into 100% or back out. Current file is 3.95 Gigs.

     

    On OSX 10.6.8, MacPro3,1, 16 gigs of RAM with a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285 installed.

     

    In CS5 I have no lag doing this kind of work.  But the new warp / liquify and background saving are amazing and would like to use tose in the workflow.

     

    Prefs are set to:

    Let photoshop use: 12832

    Scratch disks are not on the working drive with 200 gigs free on each.

    History & Cache: Default / history state 20 / Cache at 6 / Cache tile size at 1024

    Graphics Processor setting: Use Graphics Processor checked.  Advanced settings: Set to advanced with all checks boxes checked.

     

    Thanks for any help.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,456 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Apr 4, 2012 12:37 PM   in reply to Vahakn01

    What OS, hardware config, and GPU do you have, Vahakn01?

     

    Are you aware of the Auto Save feature?  I can imagine every 10 minutes it might stress your system noticeably to save gigabytes of data.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 1:05 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Howdy Noel, Dan here again.

     

    FWIW I just turned autosave off and still have the lag issues during everything I said before.

     

    Thanks for showing me that though.  I thought that would be it....

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 1:06 PM   in reply to Vahakn01

    As long as I keep file size to 2000 px on the longest side,or less, at no more than 200ppi, keep the history and cache set to Tall and Thin and make sure the brush spacing is set to at least 6, I can work fine with only minimal lag, but if I change any of those perameters the lag is awful. Using large brushes is almost impossible using the mixer brush with more than one layer.

     

    I really hope they work on this because this is the only thing that I can see that mars this really nice program.

     

    I encourage everyone reading this, and the other posts on this topic who is having the same problem to please speak up. If Adobe thinks this is only affecting a few people they may not feel it is necessary to fix it.

     

    I'm not saying to make a huge fuss or anything, just let everyone know that it is affecting you too.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 1:50 PM   in reply to Vahakn01

    How does it work if you set your layer panel's thumbnails to None?

     

    Layer Panel Flyout > Panel Options

    Thumbnail size = None

     

    Does this alleviate the lag?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 4, 2012 2:07 PM   in reply to Pete.Green

    It makes no difference at all.

     

    Here is my system information trimmed to save space:

     

    Adobe Photoshop Version: 13.0 (13.0 20120305.m.415 2012/03/05:21:00:00) x64

    Operating System: Windows 7 64-bit

    Version: 6.1 Service Pack 1

    System architecture: Intel CPU Family:6, Model:14, Stepping:5 with MMX, SSE Integer, SSE FP, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, HyperThreading

    Physical processor count: 4

    Logical processor count: 8

    Processor speed: 2926 MHz

    Built-in memory: 16343 MB

    Free memory: 13121 MB

    Memory available to Photoshop: 14716 MB

    Memory used by Photoshop: 71 %

    Image tile size: 128K

    Image cache levels: 4

    OpenGL Drawing: Enabled.

    OpenGL Drawing Mode: Advanced

    OpenGL Allow Normal Mode: True.

    OpenGL Allow Advanced Mode: True.

    OpenGL Allow Old GPUs: Not Detected.

    Video Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.

    Video Card Renderer: ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series

    Display: 2

    Display Bounds:=  top: 0, left: 1920, bottom: 900, right: 3360

    Display: 1

    Display Bounds:=  top: 0, left: 0, bottom: 1080, right: 1920

    Video Card Number: 1

    Video Card: ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series

    OpenCL Unavailable

    Driver Version: 8.950.0.0

    Driver Date: 20120214000000.000000-000

    Video Card Driver: aticfx64.dll,aticfx64.dll,aticfx64.dll,aticfx32,aticfx32,aticfx32,ati umd64.dll,atidxx64.dll,atidxx64.dll,atiumdag,atidxx32,atidxx32,atiumdv a,atiumd6a.cap,atitmm64.dll

    Video Mode: 1920 x 1080 x 4294967296 colors

    Video Card Caption: ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series

    Video Card Memory: 1024 MB

    Video Rect Texture Size: 16384

    Serial number: Tryout Version

    Application folder: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CS6 (64 Bit)\

    Temporary file path: C:\Users\Claudia\AppData\Local\Temp\

    Photoshop scratch has async I/O enabled

    Scratch volume(s):

      I:\, 97.7G, 97.4G free

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,456 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Apr 4, 2012 2:34 PM   in reply to cpendlay

    cpendlay wrote:

     

    If Adobe thinks this is only affecting a few people they may not feel it is necessary to fix it.

     

    I posted an image and an action, along with instructions for checking the timing of a brush stroke using two different Mixer Brushes here:

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4307689#4307689

     

    Can you go through this and report your timing?

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 5, 2012 7:38 AM   in reply to Vahakn01

    Your times with those actions are comparable with others' times.  These are not significantly different than with Photoshop CS5 (if anything you appear to be seeing a bit faster performance with CS6).  Frankly, the Mixer Brush has always been a bit slow.

     

    You might want to consider setting your Auto Save to a really long interval instead of turning it off entirely, so that if you've left your system alone for a long while and forgotten to save your work, it will protect you.

     

    I think the next step would be for you to share a copy of a PSD file with which you are seeing lag while editing.  Are you seeing it only with very large files, or can you crop out a reasonably sized piece have it show the same thing?

     

    There was another person here on the forum recently experiencing reproducible lag, and it turned out he had a really large radius outer glow configured as a layer style, which was chewing up a lot of CPU time when painting layers.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 8:22 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel, your test doesn't really address the lag problem I am having. The brushes work wonderfully until I add a second layer and turn on SAL.

    I assure you that CS5 brushes are far more responsive under these conditions than CS6 is, even though there is some lag with a larger file in CS5.

     

    In CS6 I can make a stroke from one side of the page to the other and I get the spinning circle and it takes several seconds for the stroke to paint.

    I do not use huge files sizes and am using methods that worked quite nicely in CS5 but are impossible in CS6.

     

    The only thing that makes it possible to paint with multi layer mixer brush files is to turn History and Cache to Tall and Thin and not have a file larger than 2000 px on the longest side,     and I rarely ever use a brush over 100px.

     

    Claudia

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 8:55 AM   in reply to Vahakn01

    I've been posting about lag on another thread too. I find the tools (healing, dodge/burn etc.) get sluggish the longer the CS6 instance is running. I do photo retouching and each image can have upwards of 50 adjustment layers and a dozen or more smart filters

     

     

    It seems that after opening, editing, and saving many images (usually around 10-12) I find the tools become sluggish. It's tough to replicate since every image is different. I attempted to do the timing test last night when I noticed the sluggishness, but I accidentally hit the F1 key, and PS got into an endless loop dialog box (I expect Help is still VERY beta).

     


    So I'm not sure if we are talking about the same problem, but it seems there are some sluggishness issues being reported in various threads.

     

     

    I will try to keep my current instance of PS running and do the timing test again when I detect the sluggishness.

     

    Ted

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 5, 2012 9:50 AM   in reply to cpendlay

    Interesting...  Thanks for that additional info Claudia.

     

    I tried the same tests with Photoshop CS6 and my actions, but this time after adding a second (transparent) layer and selecting the Sample All Layers checkbox.  Painting was on the new layer when running the test.

     

    I saw no difference in speed

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 10:20 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Ooops Noel! I think you'll find that when your action selects the Mixer Brush, it selects it with SAL not active! This means that even if you add the layer and activate SAL before running the action, the action cancels the SAL option. That will be why you get identical timings!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 10:46 AM   in reply to Vahakn01

    For those of you experiencing lag, are you using a pen and tablet or a mouse?

     

    Pattie

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 10:49 AM   in reply to Pattie F

    Pattie,

    This action uses neither... it simply strokes the path.

    T

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 10:55 AM   in reply to Vahakn01

    I am using a Cintiq and a Wacom tablet at the same time.  Problems happens in both.  Also while zooming in or moving parts of a file.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 11:35 AM   in reply to Pattie F

    I am using a supported video card with the latest drivers, a Wacom Intuos 4 with the latest drivers.

    It occurs using the grip pen, the art pen, and my mouse (not an intuos mouse).

    My system information is posted above in another post in this thread.

    It occurs using any brush presets with any mixer brush, including those presets used in CS5 that successfully reduced or stopped the lag.

    It occurs at all zoom levels.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 11:49 AM   in reply to TimShelbourne

    TimShelbourne wrote:

     

    Ooops Noel! I think you'll find that when your action selects the Mixer Brush, it selects it with SAL not active! This means that even if you add the layer and activate SAL before running the action, the action cancels the SAL option. That will be why you get identical timings!

     

    I took that into account and inserted a stop so as to turn on SAL.  I really did test it properly.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 11:54 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Wow... that's incredible! No difference between SAL and no SAL? Now I'm getting system envy! I hate it when that happens!

    Just thought it was worth pointing out.

    T

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 11:59 AM   in reply to TimShelbourne

    And you were painting on the added layer,... not still the background?

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 5, 2012 12:00 PM   in reply to TimShelbourne

    Well, to be fair my times aren't all that good either way, but I'm running PS CS6 in a Windows 8 virtual machine (VMware), so the GPU support is different than it would be if I put the software on my host system.  I've been resisting doing that, but perhaps I will, since some things I'd like to be able to test I really can't this way.

     

    I'm working on updating the actions and image so as to test brushing more thoroughly, including Sample All Layers and possibly using the new capability for recording of brushstrokes (which you or someone suggested a few days ago).  I think it's important we have a way we can objectively measure brush interactivity.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 12:06 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Absolutely Noel, we can do that... on a 4000 x 4000 pixel canvas, draw around the outer edge with the Round Fan, at a specific pixel size, counting seconds between corners, and see how long it takes for the stroke to catch up with what you're doing.

    I'm really interested in comparing results from this simple approach between nVidia and ATI/AMD cards (with a few very specific CS6 performance settings)

    T

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 5, 2012 1:31 PM   in reply to TimShelbourne

    While reworking the action and controlling everything carefully, I found that I can reproduce the much slower operation with the Sample All Layers setting checked.  It seemed to take using something other than white as a base layer to get it to happen.  Or something else changed.  I could have made a mistake before.

     

    The Sample All Layers setting makes the thing run about 5 times slower.  This action will show that clearly.  Run it the first time with the Sample All Layers off (the default), then run it a second time and at the Stop set it do Sample All Layers.

     

    http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/temp/SpeedTest2.zip

     

    I don't think I sense a difference between Photoshop CS5 and CS6 though.  The above action can't run on CS5.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 1:44 PM   in reply to TimShelbourne

    Right now I am seeing the problem in spades.

     

    Tim I did as you suggest, but my drawing was too erratic to figure the time. So I selected timing (at the bottom left drop down - usually used for dimensions) and simply dragged a 100px brush diagonally. The time it took to quickly swipe the stylus from corner to corner was negligible, but on 25 consecutive swipes the drawing time averaged 1.6 seconds with the shortest being .5 seconds and the longest being 2.8.

     

    That is a wild variation. .5 seconds is not a problem. 2.8 seconds is.

     

     

    So I tried it on a gray layer over a pattern and used the dodge tool. Sometimes it took 0.5 seconds to dodge at 100% with a 200px brush (typical for me), but 2 out of three passes were excruciatingly long - the worst was 5.2 seconds. It seems like the first pass would lag, the second would be fast, the next two would lag, and so on.

     

    I doubt this is a sufficiently quantitative test, but it shows the problem.

     

    Memory stats:

    In Use: 6837 MB

    Modified: 97 MB

    Standby: 8780 MB

    Free: 686 MB

     

    Memory allocated to Ps 8703 MB

     

    Win 7 ver. 6.1.7601.17514 - SP1

    i7-2600K @ 3.4 GHz

    Video: nvidi GTX 550Ti w/ 1GB

    nvidia driver 8.17.12.9610

    Physical Memory 16GB

     

     

    Ted

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 2:06 PM   in reply to PixbyTed

    Loaded the same 4K x 4K image into CS5 and repeated the drag the dodge tool test.

     

    The best time on CS5 (0.6 sec) was slower than the best on CS6 (0.5 sec). BUT the slowest on CS5 was 0 7 sec versus the slowest on CS6 at 5.6 sec.

     

    Ted

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 2:18 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel,

    Thanks for your effort.

    I may have missed a few posts here and there, my apologies if that's so. Are you running an nVidia card or an ATI/AMD/Radeon?

    Thank you,

    T

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 2:17 PM   in reply to PixbyTed

    Thanks Ted... all being logged!

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 5, 2012 2:39 PM   in reply to TimShelbourne

    I have a VisionTek ATI Radeon HD 5670 1 GB DDR5.

     

    Up to just now I've been running Photoshop CS6 in a VMware VM.  I've just gotten it installed on my host system, so I'm about to run through some of the same speed tests.  It starts a bit faster, and more menu entries are available (e.g., OpenCL).

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Apr 5, 2012 2:51 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    My measured times with the action I posted just above are as follows:

     

    12.9 seconds with Sample All Layers OFF.

    50.0 seconds with Sample All Layers ON.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 6, 2012 3:26 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    After some more experimentation, this is interesting stuff.

    As you know, for a pretty unscientific test, I’ve been painting in a single stroke around the edges of a 4000 x 4000 pixel document with a bristle tip, using the Mixer Brush Tool on a separate layer above the white background. Settings for the MB were:

    Wet: 80, Load 75, Mix 39 and SAL checked.

    Bristle settings for the bristle tip were:

    Bristles 16, Length 137, Thickness 1, Stiffness 56 with no other brush dynamics active. This is using the Round Blunt shape for the brush. Brush Size: 121 pixels.

    For the first set of stroke timing tests in CS6 and then CS5 the brush was set to its default Spacing value (2%), to really give Photoshop something to chew on. Doing my pretty unscientific test of drawing around the outer edges of the document, at the various tile sizes gave these results:

     

    CS6:

    1028k: 22.8s

    1024k: 22.4s

    132k: 15.9s

    128k: 15.1s

    One interesting point here is that in CS6, completely turning off ‘Use Graphics Processor’ actually speeds the brush up quite significantly at the lower tile size settings, making the 128k: 15.1s above 128k: 12.5s! This effect is not apparent in CS5.

     

    CS5:

    1028k: 17.6s

    1024k: 17.4s

    132k: 11.5s

    128k: 11.5s

    So, I’s clear to see that there’s quite a timing difference between CS5 and CS6, across all tile sizes, with CS5 winning hands down every time.

    Now… here’s the interesting bit. Of course, we know that increasing the spacing a little on the bristle tips speeds brush response up no end, so for the second run of tests I increased it to 5%, with these results:

     

    CS6:

    1028k: 8.4s

    1024k: 8.4s

    132k: 5.8s

    128k: 5.9s

     

    CS5:

    1028k: 7.3s

    1024k: 7.3s

    132k: 5.9s

    128k: 5.7s

    So you can clearly see by this that increasing the Spacing to 5%, not only speeds up the performance of the brush (as you would expect), but oddly results in there being virtually no difference at all between the brush speed in CS6 and CS5. For me, this seems to indicate that something in CS6 is much more sensitive to low brush spacing in terms of brush speed than CS5 is? In reality, with a higher level of Spacing there is virtually no speed difference between the two.

    I’m almost tempted to say that one solution to this could be to increase the default spacing for the standard Bristle Tip Presets in the Brush Presets to 5%, rather than 2%, but that doesn’t really address the issue of exactly why CS6 is more susceptible to the slow-down effects of low brush spacing!

    In reality, increasing the spacing this much doesn’t introduce any really noticeable tyre-tracking, especially if you’re using a texture within the stroke (although I wasn’t here).

    I was convinced that the MB slow-down in CS6 was purely a tile size/re-draw problem, but whilst smaller tile sizes make a difference to overall brush speed, that doesn’t explain why the speed differences between CS6 and CS5 apparently disappear at a higher brush spacing setting. Even though you’d expect the brush to be faster in both, you’d still expect to see the marked timing differences between the two.

    Mike and Pattie, I’ll also email this to you privately.

     
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