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Noel Carboni 23,534 posts
Dec 23, 2006
Currently Being Moderated

All I can say is wow!   My PS CS6 results keep blowing away those I got from PS CS5!

Apr 5, 2012 5:57 PM

If you use Photoshop to prepare photographs and can spare some time, here's a great idea:

 

In the Photoshop CS6 beta, re-process some of your photos on which you've done your best work before, then compare your results.

 

I'm betting you will be able to make them look better than you were ever able to do with any prior version of Photoshop.  Maybe even night and day better!

 

I've been doing just that.

 

Not only am I able to achieve results directly and quickly with Photoshop CS6, but they're just coming out better looking.  A lot better.  Everything just seems to work more smoothly and accurately, from the more accurate cursors helping with selections, to the UI that's easier on the eyes, to the great stability of this beta.  The improvements in Camera Raw 7 give the images the best start yet, and touch-up and whatnot in Photoshop proper just goes smoothly.

 

To show you what I mean, here's a raw file, which I shot in 2008 with my Canon EOS-40D and 28-135 zoom lens.  The first link below is to the best result I was able to achieve using Photoshop CS5 back a few years ago.  The second link is what I just managed with Photshop CS6.  I thought I had done really well before, and was quite proud of that result.  But my more recent Photoshop CS6 result has more presence and just feels nicer.  See if you don't agree.

 

Warning:  These are large 25 megapixel files.

 

http://images.ProDigitalSoftware.com/Mustang_25MP.jpg

 

http://images.ProDigitalSoftware.com/Mustang_25MP_CS6.jpg

 

In a recent thread Jeff Schewe pointed out that technology advances such as what have gone into the PV2012 process of Camera Raw are allowing us to take our raw data further than was ever possible before, and wow, he wasn't kidding!

 

-Noel

 
Replies 1 2 Previous Next
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 5, 2012 9:35 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Just to clarify, you're talking about the ACR 7.x improvements, correct?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 6, 2012 2:40 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    If that's the case, then both of your posts are a bit too broad and vague.

     

    Taking your two images as an example, can you elaborate on what you think CS6 can do that cannot be replicated in CS5, or even CS4 for that matter?

     

    I took your first image and had no trouble replicating the other image in CS4. 

     

    Not that I dispute your assertion, but maybe you can point out specific details?  I'm all for progress, and I find your assessment of CS6 very encouraging. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 6, 2012 1:25 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I have to agree, my output from CS5 does not compare in quality to the output in CS6. I think that Adobe has tweaked the saturation and vibrancy in CS6. My CS6 pic just had more pop than the one in CS5. I love CS6, I must say.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 6, 2012 1:34 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    It is nice to hear happy people saying what they are able to do with and like about Photoshop CS6. Thanks for the support and positive feedback!

     

    Pattie

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 7, 2012 2:28 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    The creative side is just that and no amount of tech wizardry can overcome and guarantee that the results from re-visiting with an upgrade will consistently provide a better result. It's not unlike playing the piano where the results for even, or should I say especially, the polished professional. Steinway would not have a plethora of concert grands available for those folks, as at times, the better part of a year goes by before a piano and the player come together for the recital of a lifetime!

     

    Now I like cs6 very much. I intend to upgrade. At the same time, I will not uninstall CS5.

     

    Tools have a way of shaping the individual as they in turn shape their media. Giving up one for another is not necessarily a good tradeoff. So I'll keep both.

     

    The same accrues cameras. I own a D80 and a D90. There is a difference, and I exploit those differences.

     

    The bottom line: Do the tools free or constrict? With a suite like Photoshop, both are in evidence in every release I have encountered from Photoshop5 to CS6.

     

    There are transformative changes where one never looks back. If this is one of them, I will know it through my output.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 7, 2012 5:07 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    That's an excellent image to show off the differences, which I saw immediately when I tried CS6. (It's also the situation where I can show the difference between the D80 and the D90.) Today, I was revisiting a peculiar scanned image in b&w from my long ago trip to Alaska, at Wonder Lake. I inadvertently took a pair of images with the Hasselblad (my pack weighed out over 80lb!) that would actually stitch, but not very well, and the grain in the shots was not good. (6 weeks in a backpack in the summer does wonders (Not!) to exposed film. Anyway, I did manage to make a pretty good print which I could do up to 24" on the long side. But I have never been totally happy with it. So, I went back to the original stitch and tried again. Gah! It is really bad! And for the life of me, I cannot recall exactly what I did in CS to get there, so it isn't just a version difference here. It took a considerable amount of masking but I thought that here, with ACR7, on a tiff, I could use the tone contrls and paintbrush and the graduated filter to do the same thing.

     

    Not even close.

     

    It is more stable. For instance, with both DxO and Bridge running, moving an image by dragging it to the DxO icon would guarantee the Bridge would crash, and even leaving them both running for several hours, Bridge would suddenly close. When DxO ver 7 came out, the long term crash disappeared but I could not use drag and drop. With CS6 and DxO 7, they are both behaving quite well.

     

    The final thing I want to address about upgrades is that, with no need to use masking to accomplish a certain results, you may seriously miss out on the other qualities that masking provides as you learn to use that technique because why bother? It's likely the reason my Wonder Lake photo cannot be improved upon. Perhaps masking techniques also have improved; I have to give it a try. I see that finding your way around the tool has changed with the intro of the Properties Palette.

     

    Enjoy your Easter!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 8, 2012 12:12 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    The CS6 version is subjectively much better than the CS5 version.  Was this a RAW image to start with?  Were the changes that make a real difference done in Camera Raw?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 8, 2012 12:58 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    ACR7.0 - I am told - is the same engine that is running in the develop mode of Lightroom 4. So, as a lightroom 4 user, ACR7 holds no surprises to me, but the new engine certainly leads to better results in my case.

     

    As the forum shows, the appreciation for the new PS version depends on how you are using Photoshop, so the subjective factor will always be present.

     

    I use photoshop on a daily bases, and I feel happy and "at home" in PS6. I will certainly upgrade.

     

    jos

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 8, 2012 10:09 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Well, I don't feel at home with the cropping tool!

     

    Other things like the Content ware advances my response was "Finally!"

     

    I would caution those who are revisiting earlier RAW files to make a copy first, because when moving to the "Current" profile, things can and do change dramatically. Then even getting back to the same look as before may not be possible.

     

    I figured that out the hard way!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 8, 2012 10:44 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Duplicate the RAW file. I do it in Bridge, which also copies the XMP.

     

    To each his own.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 8, 2012 1:44 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Hudechrome wrote:

     

    I would caution those who are revisiting earlier RAW files to make a copy first, because when moving to the "Current" profile, things can and do change dramatically. Then even getting back to the same look as before may not be possible.

     

    No need to make a copy...simply make a snashot of the previous setting in PV 2010 and then make your adjustments after converting to PV 2012. Snapshots allow you to store multiple renderings in one file.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 8, 2012 2:00 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    I've got to agree that ACR 7 / PV2012  looks very good.

     

    I do a lot of compositing and retouching work - and sometimes have to rescue poor client images. I was working on such a shot yesterday - a jpg. I decided to run it through ACR 7 to establish a reasonable base to work from. It did a great job - very impressed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 8, 2012 2:22 PM   in reply to Jeff Schewe

    Thanks for the reminder.

     

    So much to know, so much to forget.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 8, 2012 2:24 PM   in reply to Mike_Abbott

    And that's the opposite for me. The Wonder Lake image didn't do so well.

     

    I have several others that form the backbone of test images when either upgrades or even new editing software comes around. I haven't gotten around to those yet.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2012 8:30 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Having been testing CS6 for a week and very impressed. There are a few bugaboos with the UI, like loosing the resolution box with the crop tool, but generally my productivity has improved; and now I have my trusty scanner online and working, I am off to the races.

     

    In the middle of restoring some damage prints, I have access to the negatives, but they were stored in a garage, had water damage and were grainy as heck. The film was Tri-X but lord knows what the developer was to get this aweful grain. It was taken with a Hasselblad (the negatives had the tell tale v-notches).

     

    Anyways, scanned as 24 bit RGB TIFF's, opened in ACR 7.1 Beta via Bridge, adjusted the white and black points, the brides over exposed and blown out dress popped straight away with nice detail, no dodging and burning here, added a litte exposure, tweaked the shadows and highlights a litte and then went to the Sharpen Panel and added a little noise reduction, and poof, the grain almost dissapeared. Few more tweaks and I will be ready to spot the remaining damaged areas. My guess I took 50 minute job with CS5 to a 30 minute job with CS6 and the results way, way better.

     

    Here is the example I was working on, got rid of the scratches, looked like the negative had been walked on, just need to clean up the spots....

     

    Eech, the resampling of the image here does not do it credit.....

    ScanTest.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2012 8:44 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Hmm, gave it a quick twirl, this will take some experimentation, from the scanned TIFF, converted to 32 bit, applied HDR Toning and lots of halos, but will keep experimenting once I get this job done

     

    MK

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 25, 2012 10:28 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Sweet image. PS6 has a lot of very nice features, and in most respects seems to be improvment over 5. But how did you get the crop tool to work?  My work around has been to select the image I want to crop, cuting the selction, then pasting it into a new document, then sizing it. Regretably, I deleted PS5 before fully testing PS6.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 10:13 AM   in reply to rpcb@surewest.net

    The new crop tool in CS 6 works great to a point, just select the crop tool and move the handles until I get the area I am looking for, or put the dimensions in the crop box, you can use inches, pixlels, centimeters or whatever. The big bugaboo was loosing the resolution box. I often get artwork that needs to fit a custom matt, and it was great to be able to enter 6.15 inches by 9.15 inches at 360dpi and go straight to the printer from the crop. But now, I enter the crop dimensions and have to go to image size to set the DPI - an unnecessary extra step - blah! Don't think the Adobe developers thought this one through very well as there is ample room in the GUI to add the resolution box, and guess what, the resolution box is present in the Perspecive Crop, so much for uniform UI's. I have asked for it to be put back, but zero response from Adobe.......

     

    MK

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 10:50 AM   in reply to MikeKPhoto

    You can do what you want but you have to do it under Size and Resolution. I just did that, changing a square at 16x16, 360dpi to 6x6 @360 dpi and it ran perfectly. I got a 6x6 at 360 dpi.

     

    And if you are running a specific size as a standard simply save it. Otherwise, set the proportions as a ratio in the boxes. You will get an output based on cropping and retaining the maximum pixel count, which can change the dpi.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 11:51 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Agreed, but an extra step, with the Crop Tool in prervious versions all was on crop tool bar. While it is only an extra click, it is an extra click. Good thing the settings are sticky, but when working on multiple sizes it adds up. I am working on 178 images from a product shoot and printing for a trade show. They are of a number of different sizes, so while it may not seem much for a single image, it is a pain with volume work.

     

    Crop.JPG

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 12:04 PM   in reply to MikeKPhoto

    Tis true, yet I was never completely happy with the earlier ones either. If you did not want to mess with the resolution, you had to clear the resolution box. I can't tell you the number of complaints from people who didn't notice that "feature" and cropped a bunch, or even one, and would up at the wrong resolution, saved safely!

     

    For my money, I'll settle for the old ones anyway. I've gotten used to CS6 but still don't like it. There are a bunch of clicks necessary at times to get it to even perform, like moving the crop points. At the moment, a crop is somehow configured so I can move with the mouse but not the arrow keys. If I close the crop by choosing another tool then go back to crop, the keys work. I have to use the keys because with the marquee showing, you cannot determine the exact placement of the edges. So if you move with the mouse, say up, you may also move ever so slightly left or right, but not see that error until you complete the crop and remove the marquee by choosing another tool.

     

    How's that for slowdowns! You have how many to do?

     

    Go back to CS5!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 1:53 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    That's what I thought also, and recommended. BUT! After actually using it, there is also problems with it so I gave up and decided to do the best I can with the current crop tool but keep CS5 in reserve. Especially for cropping and fixing architectural subjects (which is where I encountered the perspective Crop Tool problems...I don't remember the details). I also use Transform, if the keystoning is symmetrical, which it rarely is not.

     

    Sigh!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 2:49 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Begging everyone's indulgence for a second here. 

     

    Excuse me, folks, I seem to have gotten utterly confused by this debate over the New Crop Tool. 

     

    Seems I'm missing something.  With the Crop Tool selected, if you click on the little gear icon in the Options Bar to get to the "Set additional Crop options" don't you get the Use Classic Mode option?  ???

     

    On my Mac, I do, and then the Crop Tool behaves like it always has.  That's why I don't understand the debate in this thread.

     

    Ps_13_CropTool_Classic.jpg

     

    Screen shot 2012-05-26 at 2.31.23 PM.png

     

    If I'm misconstruing your objections during one of my increasingly more frequent senior moments, then I humbly apologize in advance.

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
    5,972 posts
    May 24, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 3:08 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

    I have decided not to help out much in this forum until they fix the numerous problems with the forum software,

     

    -Noel

     

    I was wondering where you had got to Noel.   Is the forum a work in progress, or is this how it is going to be?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 3:14 PM   in reply to station_two

    Station 2, the Classic Mode is really not the classic mode as seen in CS3 or CS5 while it does give you the "classic" mode there is a piece missing = "the resolution box" is clicking classic mode brought that back for CS6 I would be more than a happy camper

     

    MK

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 3:20 PM   in reply to station_two

    No, it does not. When you use the crop tool in versions up to CS5, nothing happens until you actually apply the tool. This version immediately sees whatever you have dialed in as a centered crop, and further, no resolution box appears.  With true Classic, you crop, hit enter and you are done. This "classic", sure you get to use the tool anyway, but it is now becoming confusing. (Or maybe the software guy is a joker. Or bored. Or both!)

     

    Want to perspective correct? Click the box. Pull on a corner, pull the other ones you need. Click Enter. You are done.

     

    Here's another infuriating problem, common to Classic and non-Classic. Open an image with the Crop tool preselected. The crop appears. Now try to move it with the arrow keys. It cycles through the grid selection.  My Bad! Tell it Never show the grid. Hit the arrow key and damn! It's cycling through the grid again! Redo the never show grid or whatever it's called. Finally works.

     

    Aaaargh!!! And Mike is worried about one extra key stroke? I'm getting worried I'll have a stroke!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 4:11 PM   in reply to MikeKPhoto

    MikeKPhoto wrote:

     

    …there is a piece missing = "the resolution box" is clicking classic mode brought that back for CS6 I would be more than a happy camper…

     

     

    Thank you for helping me out, Mike.  Yes, the resolution box is something I had overlooked, because I always make sure to leave it blank.  My bad. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 4:37 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Thank you, Hudechrome.  As you can see in my reply to mike, I had indeed overlooked the Resolution Box issue.  Sorry.

     

    Some of rest of your post still leaves me puzzled.

     

     

    Hudechrome wrote:

     

    No, it does not. When you use the crop tool in versions up to CS5, nothing happens until you actually apply the tool. This version immediately sees whatever you have dialed in as a centered crop, and further, no resolution box appears.  With true Classic, you crop, hit enter and you are done. T

    Here's another infuriating problem, common to Classic and non-Classic. Open an image with the Crop tool preselected. The crop appears. Now try to move it with the arrow keys. It cycles through the grid selection.  My Bad! Tell it Never show the grid. Hit the arrow key and damn! It's cycling through the grid again! Redo the never show grid or whatever it's called. Finally works…

     

     

    Well, aside from the resolution box, in this Classic Mode, and with the two boxes UNchecked [Auto Center Preview and Show Cropped Area] as in my screen shot also nothing happens until I hit Enter, which is what I assume you mean by "applying the tool".

     

    The other stuff about moving the crop selection with the arrows works entirely as expected, moving the selection smoothly in the direction of whatever arrow(s) you're using, just like in CS4 and CS5, and I see no cycling and no "grid" unless I click inside the selection, then the grid does appear, but it behaves nicely, with no jumping around or cycling.

     

    In sum, other than the missing resolution box, which is of course a valid point for anyone who uses said resolution box, I wonder if your other issues are just a Windows problem or perhaps machine specific.

     

    Thank you for your patience and for helping my tired, battered, old brain figure out what your objections were. 

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
    5,972 posts
    May 24, 2010
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    May 26, 2012 5:26 PM   in reply to station_two

    You have to nudge a handle with the new CS6 default before you can access the resolution box with the r key. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 26, 2012 7:13 PM   in reply to station_two

    For me, the response is jerky and presumes certain things. Like invoking Crop autmatically sets a crop, centered, at the ratio last used. When I invoke crop in CS5, nothing happens until I actually crop it.

     

    Everything I posted is as I find it on my PC. Results may vary. I'll try it on a Mac, if the owner still is running CS6.

     
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