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Chantal Coolsma
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No OS X (10.7-10.8) Full Screen support in Mac version of Photoshop CS6?

Mar 22, 2012 5:00 AM

Tags: #screen #full

Will CS6 get Full Screen support for OS X? Would be a nice feature.

 
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  • Pierre Courtejoie
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    Mar 22, 2012 12:58 AM   in reply to Chantal Coolsma

    Chantal, what functionnality are you missing from Lion's full screen mode? there's been a full screen mode in Photoshop for ages...

     
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    Mar 22, 2012 2:40 AM   in reply to Pierre Courtejoie

    I think Chantal refers to the FullScreen mode some Apple applications have since OSX Lion. This means the application takes over the complete desktop. This is not the same as the standard fullscreen mode of Photoshop, where the menubar and Dock of OSX are still available.

     
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  • Pierre Courtejoie
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    Mar 22, 2012 3:25 AM   in reply to Toon61

    Yes, then, she might have to use the preferences of the dock to hide it.

    I guess the idea was to offer a consistent behavior between platforms.

    If the Lion fullscreen mode is really vital, I would suggest to post/search on the http://feedback.photoshop.com about it, and explain why the current modes do not fit the bill for your workflow.

     

    Happy testing!

     
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    Mar 22, 2012 3:54 AM   in reply to Chantal Coolsma

    @PECourtejoie

    The full screen mode IS vital for several reasons. First of all, CS full screen mode does not play well with other applications. Ich you change to an application within the same space while in full screen some (or all) of the menu bars remain doced at the sides. You would say that this is not a problem, but if you work with Illustrator and Photoshop in the same time (or any other 2 applications from the CS suite) the tools overlap and often when you change the application it takes switching back and forth to the first application to update the interface. CS Applications also tend not to stick to a desctop space, sometmes showing random dialogs and windows at random spaces. This mostly happens when switching to another space to complete a quick task while waiting for something larger to get done in photoshop or another CS app - like saving, updating a large smart object or changing color spaces. The dialogs have been appearing virtually everywhere - on the dashboard, underneeth the full screen browser (?), etc.

    I think Adobe does need to pay some more attention to Lion interface improvements. I don't think this would be that hard either - with the full screen more already buid in, as you said, it will just take isolating photoshop in a new space when full screen gets activated to resolve maybe 50% of the Lion problems.

     

    PS: I would also extect to see a lot of improvments in how Photoshop and the rest of the apps in CS handle new windows and dialogs. There is quite a lot of focus stealing in the current version (CS5.5)and this is very contra productive. I have not had a chance to get a sence of whether this has been taken care of in the beta.

     
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  • Pierre Courtejoie
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    Mar 22, 2012 4:02 AM   in reply to Yavor Trampov

    Yes, thanks for the excellent feedback, but please post it in this discussion.

    Actual examples, and issues do help to get a feature implemented the correct way: http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/photoshop_lightr oom_support_for_full_screen_apps_in_mac_osx_10_7_lion

    (But realize that Rome wan't built in a day, as we say in French. What seems easy to implement for us might trigger application-wide changes that take time to troubleshoot)

     
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    Mar 22, 2012 7:53 AM   in reply to Yavor Trampov

    >> sometmes showing random dialogs and windows at random spaces.

     

    So you're talking about the bugs in Apple's Spaces implementation, not about full screen mode?

    Apple has to fix the bugs in Spaces.  Adobe has already done their part of the work.

     

     

    (and yes, Cocoa likes to steal focus a lot, so it took us a long time to find all the cases and try to work around the behaviors)

     
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    Mar 22, 2012 9:28 AM   in reply to Chantal Coolsma

    Chris,

     

    I realize some of these problems might be related with Apple's software bugs and how Spaces are progtammed, but my (partially educated) guess would be that a part of the issues will dissapear if the full screen mode of CS applications gets tied to Lion's full screen mode. In "non-fullscreen" mode applications can display the "application frame" which has been there for ages too. Am I not right, that having everythig in a separate space when in full screen mode and in ac container otherwise will make solving the problems with toolbars much easier?

     
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    Mar 22, 2012 12:10 PM   in reply to Chantal Coolsma

    I was very disappointed that Photoshop CS6 Beta doesn't have Lion fullscreen mode support. When Lion was launched I was actually foolish enough to think that all Adobe CS5.5 apps will have update within a month to support Lion fullscreen mode. Photoshop's full-screen mode just doesn't function the way I want after I fell in love with Apple's implementation.

     

    When in "Standard Screen Mode" Dock is visible and hiding it isn't solution because I want to see it when on desktop space. And the problem got more momemtum when I switched over to 16:9 screen from 16:10 screen...

    When in "Fullscreen Mode with Menubar" the same Dock-problem persists.

    When in "Fullscreen Mode" (and press Tab-key to get panels visible), which is quite close to Apple's fullscreen mode, another problem appears – menubar is unaccessible, thus making this mode unusable.

    The crude solution is to manually hide Dock everytime I use CS apps for extented time, which is – needless to say – frustrating.

     

    When using multiple CS apps Lion's fullscreen mode would automatically make own desktops for each of them, saving effort to manually make desktops and drag apps into them (Mission Control).

     

    The funny thing is that Lightroom 3 has samekind of fullscreen modes but "true" fullscreen mode which hides Dock, keeps menubar also accessible unlike Photoshop.

     

    Hopefully more Lion features (and Mountain Lion) will come to CS6 apps.

     
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    Mar 23, 2012 3:48 AM   in reply to Chantal Coolsma

    Im really dissapointed that i still cant "Swipe" between the programs in Adobe's Suite. It really does slow my productivity, why is Adobe being slow to implement this feature?

     
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    Mar 28, 2012 8:04 AM   in reply to Chantal Coolsma

    I thought I'd take a moment to outline OS X's fullscreen mode in relation to Photoshop's Full Screen Modes and explain why we stuck with our Full Screen Mode in the near term:

     

    Here's the short story:

     

    If we replace Photoshop's Full Screen mode with the native 10.7 full screen mode, then our users will lose the following functionality:

     

    • The ability to use multiple displays while in fullscreen mode
    • The ability to switch between different document windows while in fullscreen mode

     

    This in not something our long time users have said they want to give up.

     

    That said, we're pretty excited about full screen mode in Lion like you guys are, and it's possible that Apple may change the full screen mode in OS X in the future to include this functionality in the future – and we'll continue to evaluate if it meets all our users needs.


    Here's the longer story with more details:

     

    Photoshop's full screen model is a per display mode. This means that in multi-displays configurations, some displays may be in Full Screen Mode while others are not. Photoshop's full screen display can can also contain one or more document windows. When a display is in Full Screen Mode, then all document-windows on that display will be full screen when they are brought forward. Photoshop's model has two full screen modes: Full Screen with UI (including the OSX menu bar) and Full Screen without UI (in this mode the OSX menu bar is hidden).

     

    The native full screen implementation in OS X 10.7 is a single display mode. When you enter fullscreen mode on a given display, then all other displays become dark (and windows are hidden on dark displays). Dark displays can contain UI for the active application (but not documents).

     

    When you enter the OSX fullscreen mode, then a new (temporary) Space is created for the fullscreen window. Only a single document window lives in this new Space. This means that you cannot switch between different document windows while in fullscreen mode (command-tilde does nothing).

     
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    Mar 28, 2012 8:07 AM   in reply to Chantal Coolsma

    Jeffrey,

     

    thank you for explaining this. I believe, though, that there can be a workarround for the problems you outlined.

     

    What users are looking for are actually two things: a full screnn mode which would HIDE menues but DISPLAY UI and a better integration with spaces, allowing for the use of swipe gestures to switch between programs.

     

    The default treatment of documents in full screen mode (the one we experiece in mail, for exaple) is defenetly not optimal. Yet there are some things to consider. First, some software already works arround this problem and offers different windows for different documents - the one that comes to my mind is evernote right now. Second, SC applications have been shifting towards the use of tabs latelly, which is fully possible in full screen mode. And last but not least, you can always have multiple windows, each located in its own space and hosting its own tabs (I realize this might be harder to do in the case of CS applications).

     

    As for multiple screens, I know from experience that very few studios use multiple screens with documents on each of them. The calibration of multiple screens so that they would display even similar colors is tricky in most cases, so users with multiple screens would usually just use one of them for UI and the other one for the actuall document.

     

    All in all, the key to developing for lion's full screen mode currently seems to be limiting the functionallity of the UI to fit within restrains. Thus, the full screen mode should not fully replace the existing screen modes, but I see no problem in it being a "full screen mode with UI, without free floating windows and with additional screens for UI only" - I believe this will just perfectly satisfy the requirements of 99% of the people, interested in this feature.

     
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    Mar 28, 2012 11:37 PM   in reply to Jeffrey Tranberry

    Hi Jeffrey.  Thank you for your explanation but if your explanation is the official Adobe reason then I am quite disappointed because you guys apparently don't understand how Lion's full screen mode actually works.  You listed two reasons why full screen mode isn't implemented but with all due respect neither of them appear to be good reasons at all.

     

     

    Let me see if I can clarify and please pass this information on to whom it may concern:

     

    Photoshop currently uses the green "traffic light" button for its "full screen mode".  This is actually called maximizing  or zooming the window.  What's important to understand is that you don't lose this current feature by implementing Lion's true full screen mode.  Lion's full screen mode is activated by clicking the opposing arrows in the top right hand corner of the window.  It does not take away from Photoshop and other apps' current functionality of maximizing the window. I repeat, absolutely ZERO functionality is lost by implementing Lion's true full screen mode.  It is just an extra option. 

     

    If some of your users want to use multiple displays as usual and the ability to switch between different document windows in the old way, then they don't have to click the arrows that enable true full screen mode.  They can just click the green button as usual. Lion's full screen mode just gives you another option with more features.  You don't lose any previous functionality at all. This point can't be stated enough. 

     

    Furthermore, people with dual displays don't actually lose the second screen entirely when in full screen mode.  This is a common misconception due to many people not understanding what full screen mode is designed to do.  It is designed to give you distraction a free workspace and completely take up all space for whatever document you are currently working on.  With that in mind, the way it actually works for dual displays is that while it's true that other apps can't show on the second screen,  you can make the panels for the current app/document show on the second screen. This would be extremely useful for applications like Photoshop and others in the Creative Suite that make extensive use of panels.  The Layers panel, History Panel, Swatches, etc. can all show up on your second monitor while your current working document fully takes over your primary one while in Lion's full screen mode.

     

    For an example of this, take a look at Apple's Keynote and Numbers apps.  If you open their inspection panels and move them to your second display and then go into Lion's Full Screen Mode, the inspection panels all show up on the second monitor.   There should be no reason why Adobe does not implement this.  Other 3rd party developer's have implemented it for quite some time.   Once again, it is an added feature.  It takes absolutely nothing away from Photoshop's current implementation.  If you want to keep using the current implementation, you just continue clicking on the green button instead of the new arrows that appear when Lion's true full screen mode is available in the app.

     

    Please pass this on to the necessary people and I hope it clarifies some things so that you can provide the best product for your users in CS6.

     
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    Mar 28, 2012 11:42 PM   in reply to Daryl Barnes

    >> Photoshop currently uses the green "traffic light" button for its "full screen mode".

     

    No. The "f" key or the switcher on the tool bar activates full screen mode (and has for many years).

    The maximize window button just maximizes that window...

     
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    Mar 29, 2012 12:15 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Hi Chris.  Yes we know about the f key as well.  But that still does not do what Lion's true full screen mode does.  And it does not address the two misguided reasons provided for not implementing Lion's full screen mode.  Can you provide some insight on how Jeffrey's two major reasons for it not to be implemented apply in light of the information I provided on how it really works?  And is Adobe aware of this?

     

    Gaerraty and others in this thread already pointed out some things about why this is needed but one of the most important things is how Lion's full screen mode automatically moves the app or document to a new desktop which allows you to just swipe between desktops for a nice multitasking workflow.  If you have ever used it on Lion you would understand how integral to getting around in and switching among applications and documents within the OS it is. 

     

    Apps that don't have a full screen mode implemented in Lion causes a less effective workflow than intended by the OS and hampers productivity.  It's not that big a deal for apps that don't need to take up a lot of space on the screen but for apps like Photoshop it is really important to how the OS is designed to work.

     

    And developers have quite a bit of flexibility in how you want to handle it. Omnigroup's OmniOutliner Pro puts each document open in the app in full screen mode in their own desktop and your second display shows the panels.  So for example you can make every open Photoshop document take up a desktop space and make all the panels show up on the second monitor.  Then you just swipe from document to document or to other apps for a nice multitasking workflow in full screen.

     

    Many Mac users I know are really looking forward to subscribing to Creative Cloud and upgrading to a full screen mode enabled CS6 because it truly makes for a better experience because the Lion OS was designed around this.  Especially when using a laptop or when you don't have access to your large screens. 

     
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    Mar 29, 2012 8:01 AM   in reply to Daryl Barnes

    We know how it works, and as Jeff pointed out - Apple's mode is too limiting and doesn't fit with our needs.

    And we're still waiting for Apple to fix the bugs in Spaces.

     
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    Apr 13, 2012 7:12 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    If we replace Photoshop's Full Screen mode with the native 10.7 full screen mode, then our users will lose the following functionality:

     

    • The ability to use multiple displays while in fullscreen mode
    • The ability to switch between different document windows while in fullscreen mode

     

     

     

     

    Hi Chris.  Unfortunately you guys apparently don't actually know how it works because the two reasons give above are just not true as I pointed out earlier.

     

     

    And I'm sorry but if you think Full Screen Mode on Lion is "too limiting", then that is further proof.  It is in fact, extremely flexible.  That's one of the things developers say they like about it besides the fact of how easy it is to implement.  And all sorts of software developers both large and small have implemented it in a variety of different ways.  It's pretty much standard fare in Macs with Lion nowadays. To say you won't support it is like saying you won't support minimizing windows or something because more and more it's becoming just an integral part of the OS where if your application doesn't support it, then it's for all practical purposes broken.

     

    I have 26 apps on my dock right now and out of the only 4 that don't support it, three of them are Adobe apps.  The other is Axure but they say they plan to support it soon.

     

    Even Microsoft just updated their Office Suite of Word, Excel, and Powerpoint to support Full Screen Mode on Lion. For free.  We aren't even asking for a free update to CS5.  I and others are dumb founded that you are planning on releasing an entirely new product without support for Full Screen Mode.  I'm sure if you polled your Mac users you would find that support of Full Screen Mode is important to them because of the type of workflow it enables.

     

    The reality is true Full Screen Mode on Lion is a standard and apps that don't support it really disrupt people's workflows because they don't get added to new desktop spaces like the ones that do support Lion's Full Screen mode. Pretty much every other developer understands this.  It's a shame that Adobe doesn't and that they apparently aren't even aware of how it actually works or how important it is to the users of their software. 

     

    I love Adobe's products and we were looking forward to subscribing to Creative Cloud but this is extremely disappointing.

     
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    Apr 13, 2012 7:26 AM   in reply to Daryl Barnes

    Known issues | Adobe on Mac OS 10.7 Lion

     

     

    http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/global/known-issues-mac-os-10.html# main_Support_for_Mac_OS_10_7_new_features

    Support for Mac OS 10.7 new features

     

    Mac OS 10.7 has some exciting new features such as Autosave, Restore, Versioning, Full Screen Mode, and more multi-touch gestures. For Adobe applications to fully support these features, additional product development is required. Adobe is working to address this issue.

     

    The above information Adobe officially provided Mac users when Lion came out sounds quite different from the responses from Adobe employees on this thread.

     
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    Apr 13, 2012 3:54 PM   in reply to Daryl Barnes

    "For Adobe applications to fully support these features, additional product development is required. Adobe is working to address this issue. "

     

    This is still the case and is still accurate.

     
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    Apr 19, 2012 2:09 AM   in reply to Pete.Green

    I truly wish Adobe would support all of Apple's system-wide features. For quite a while, Adobe has pretty much steadfastly refused to make their Mac version any different than their Windows version. There may be one or two exceptions to this rule. While I like Adobe programs, I find this very frustrating.

     

    It is nice to hear Pete Green's comment above and very discouraging to read comments from the other three Adobe employees on this thread. It seems three to one that Adobe just doesn't get Apple, or Apple's users, like me.

     
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    Apr 19, 2012 2:22 AM   in reply to Chantal Coolsma

    Actually (Just)Bob, for quite a few users it looks like Adobe is just saying "Apple, you don't care about Flash in iOS and won't allow us to make software to produce apps for your platforms, so we will not make use of your usability enhancements either. What did you say? "User experience?"???? Well, users don't have much of a choice of other products, so they will buy it with or without this optimization anyways".

     
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