Adobe Community: This is DW CS6

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1. SnakEyez02,

Apr 23, 2012 12:09 PM in reply to pziecina

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Looks interesting. I just wish that Adobe would answer one big question from their Creative Cloud FAQ:

Q: Are there any unique benefits that come with my paid membership?

A: Yes...An ever-expanding membership that provides access to Adobe's latest products, services, features, and workflows as soon as they are available. You no longer have to wait 12, 18, or 24 months for the latest innovations.

Source: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html

Are they effectively saying that the Cloud release will be a different version than the traditional retail version because it will get more regular updates? So it is possible features will exist for the Cloud that won't exist in the traditional release.

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2. pziecina,

Apr 23, 2012 12:15 PM in reply to SnakEyez02

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SnakEyez02 wrote:

Looks interesting. I just wish that Adobe would answer one big question from their Creative Cloud FAQ:

Q: Are there any unique benefits that come with my paid membership?
A: Yes...An ever-expanding membership that provides access to Adobe's latest products, services, features, and workflows as soon as they are available. You no longer have to wait 12, 18, or 24 months for the latest innovations.

Source: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html

Are they effectively saying that the Cloud release will be a different version than the traditional retail version because it will get more regular updates? So it is possible features will exist for the Cloud that won't exist in the traditional release.

Hi SnakEyez02

As you already know I can only say three letters regarding any questions about CS6 or the Creative Cloud - NDA

PZ

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3. SnakEyez02,

Apr 23, 2012 12:28 PM in reply to pziecina

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I hear what you are saying. Or I think David or maybe Murray, one of the three wise men, usually posts something like "those who know can't say and those who do are just speculating". I tried posing this question at John Nack on his blog awhile back when the Cloud was first announced but never got a clear answer. Being that it is now officially released, I just wish someone in their marketing department would clarify their cryptic double-talk.

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4. osgood_,

Apr 24, 2012 1:41 AM in reply to pziecina

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$49 a month sounds good BUT what will that be in the UK? At the current exchange rate thats £30 a month. Can't see that happening as everone knows UK is the Worlds capital for rip-off prices.

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5. David_Powers,

Apr 24, 2012 3:28 AM in reply to pziecina

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I have written a detailed overview of the new features in Dreamweaver CS6 on my blog at http://foundationphp.com/blog/2012/04/23/my-verdict-on-dreamweaver-cs6 /. I have also recorded a video workshop for video2brain on the new features.The full workshop consists of more than three hours of video, and it's scheduled for release on Thursday. Some parts of the course will be made available free of charge.

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6. David_Powers,

Apr 24, 2012 3:39 AM in reply to SnakEyez02

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SnakEyez02 wrote:

Are they effectively saying that the Cloud release will be a different version than the traditional retail version because it will get more regular updates? So it is possible features will exist for the Cloud that won't exist in the traditional release.

Yes, that's exactly what they're saying. Subscription to the Creative Cloud brings a slew of extra benefits, including updates to programs when they become available. For example, if changes are made to the new Fluid Grid Layouts in Dreamweaver CS6, they'll become available to Creative Cloud subscribers as soon as Adobe considers the updated version stable. If you own CS6 on a perpetual licence, you'll have to wait until CS7 is released.

The reason for treating customers differently lies in an obscure US regulation known as "revenue recognition", which says you can't provide new features to customers without charging them for it. I'm told that it's part of the SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley) regulations, which were drawn up after the Enron scandal. Because Creative Cloud is charged on a monthly basis, new features can be released immediately. So, subscribers definitely should see some real benefit. The downside to subscription is that once you stop paying, you can no longer use the software. Deciding which to go for isn't a straightforward choice.

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7. David_Powers,

Apr 24, 2012 3:44 AM in reply to osgood_

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osgood_ wrote:

$49 a month sounds good BUT what will that be in the UK? At the current exchange rate thats £30 a month. Can't see that happening as everone knows UK is the Worlds capital for rip-off prices.

The UK price is £38.11 ($61.30) plus VAT at the Irish rate of 23% (Adobe's EU servers are in the Irish Republic). There's a similar 20% markup on the pre-tax price in most other parts of the world outside North America.

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8. osgood_,

Apr 24, 2012 4:02 AM in reply to David_Powers

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David_Powers wrote:

osgood_ wrote:

$49 a month sounds good BUT what will that be in the UK? At the current exchange rate thats £30 a month. Can't see that happening as everone knows UK is the Worlds capital for rip-off prices.
The UK price is £38.11 ($61.30) plus VAT at the Irish rate of 23% (Adobe's EU servers are in the Irish Republic). There's a similar 20% markup on the pre-tax price in most other parts of the world outside North America.

Hi David,

That seems reasonable considering Adobes usual purchasing structure of pricing people in the UK out of the 'real' necessity to upgrade. £480 a year is attractive as if you are VAT registered you can claim that back.

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9. SnakEyez02,

Apr 24, 2012 7:02 AM in reply to David_Powers

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David_Powers wrote:
Yes, that's exactly what they're saying. Subscription to the Creative Cloud brings a slew of extra benefits, including updates to programs when they become available. For example, if changes are made to the new Fluid Grid Layouts in Dreamweaver CS6, they'll become available to Creative Cloud subscribers as soon as Adobe considers the updated version stable. If you own CS6 on a perpetual licence, you'll have to wait until CS7 is released.

The reason for treating customers differently lies in an obscure US regulation known as "revenue recognition", which says you can't provide new features to customers without charging them for it. I'm told that it's part of the SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley) regulations, which were drawn up after the Enron scandal. Because Creative Cloud is charged on a monthly basis, new features can be released immediately. So, subscribers definitely should see some real benefit. The downside to subscription is that once you stop paying, you can no longer use the software. Deciding which to go for isn't a straightforward choice.

See my only problem with that David is that Adobe historically has not been known as an organization to push out releases on a regular basis. I remember updating from one version of Dreamweaver to fix a bug in the color picker on the Mac. Or look at the PhoneGap which had an update released recently and pulled, a issue in CS5.5 that is not fixed during the product cycle. And there is no additional support for going to a monthly subscription either. Last time I even heard about support was the open letter from VP Lambert Walsh, has anything changed since then? Then you look at the Lifehacker article adding up (for Photoshop) the cost savings of buying over the Cloud ( http://lifehacker.com/5904416/rent-vs-buy-is-adobes-creative-cloud-sub scription-cheaper-than-buying-photoshop ).

Then there was the CNET review with all the features with Scott Morris from Adobe, but suprisingly a lot of that is not in the Cloud at the release, diminishing its value.

Missing Features include:

Lightroom
Kuler
Photoshop Touch
Collage
Proto
Debut
Ideas

So basically Lightroom and all the tablet apps are gone. The only app I am sorry to not see in the traditional suite is Edge. To be honest I think the only thing that could convince me to buy the Cloud at this point is a published Roadmap or some sort of published log when new features/fixes are released to the Cloud to give me more confidence that my money is going to more development. Sort of in the same way they would release a patch currently, just more frequently. And then there is the issue of what are we really supporting. I don't use the video apps, so why would I want to contribute to their development. Same thing goes for Muse. How many DW users really want their money going to development for that, but Adobe right now may see that as needing resources and development over other programs. You could argue that for the current bundles but I have only been using the Design Premium which has no Cloud equivalent.

Sorry for being such a skeptic here. I do see the benefit for the updates, I just question the execution right now by a seemingly disorganized Adobe marketing department who leaked it terribly to begin with.

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10. David_Powers,

Apr 24, 2012 8:54 AM in reply to SnakEyez02

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SnakEyez02 wrote:
Sorry for being such a skeptic here. I do see the benefit for the updates, I just question the execution right now by a seemingly disorganized Adobe marketing department who leaked it terribly to begin with.

No need to apologize for questioning the value of the Creative Cloud. However, there are some inaccuracies in the information you point to. Adobe has said it's moving to a one-year development cycle and that after December 2012 upgrade prices will be available only to owners of the immediately preceding version. So, the $1200 over two years isn't an accurate comparison with the upgrade price.

I don't know where the information about the touch apps not being included comes from. In all the briefings I've seen from Adobe, the touch apps will be included from day 1. Lightroom 4 is not included at the start, but I'm told that it will be added fairly soon afterwards. I don't know why it's not there from the beginning, nor when it will actually be added.

As far as the withdrawal of the PhoneGap extension is concerned, I have a shrewd feeling that Sarbanes-Oxley might be to blame. But having tested the PhoneGap Build panel in Dreamweaver CS6, I can tell you that the same functionality is available by logging into the PhoneGap Build website directly.

Will the Creative Cloud be worth it? I honestly don't know. I suspect that a lot of people will wait to see if new features are released to subscribers. The cheaper upgrade prices are available until December. If you use only one or two programs in the Creative Suite, upgrading to a perpetual licence might make economic sense. You can always switch to the Creative Cloud at a later date.

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11. SnakEyez02,

Apr 24, 2012 9:50 AM in reply to David_Powers

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I don't know where the information about the touch apps not being included comes from. In all the briefings I've seen from Adobe, the touch apps will be included from day 1. Lightroom 4 is not included at the start, but I'm told that it will be added fairly soon afterwards. I don't know why it's not there from the beginning, nor when it will actually be added.

Based on their page they are saying it's a separate purchase ( http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/tools.html -bottom of page). I don't know whether that means add in another yearly fee for each program or a one-time purchase.

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12. osgood_,

Apr 24, 2012 10:06 AM in reply to SnakEyez02

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I'll just throw something else into the mix.

I assume that once you download a particular version of the software from Creative Cloud that it will always continue to work on your current OS regardless of if the version of the software is updated, which may not?

Just to clarify, the software won't stop working on your current OS just because they have updated it which may not be compatible with the current OS? Ok you can't use the updated version but the version prior will still continue to work?

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13. SnakEyez02,

Apr 24, 2012 10:13 AM in reply to osgood_

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osgood_ wrote:

I'll just throw something else into the mix.

I assume that once you download a particular version of the software from Creative Cloud that it will always continue to work on your current OS regardless of if the version of the software is updated, which may not?

Just to clarify, the software won't stop working on your current OS just because they have updated it which may not be compatible with the current OS? Ok you can't use the updated version but the version prior will still continue to work?

Osgood, from everything I've read and the webinars I've sat in on from Adobe, you will not be forced to accept the updates. So if one breaks compatibility with your older OS, you just pay to continue using the old version until you upgrade your OS and can use the new version. There are featuers in newer operating systems that users will want to take advantage of that just are not capable in older operating systems. A perfect example of this is Lightroom 4 not working with XP.

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14. David_Powers,

Apr 24, 2012 10:17 AM in reply to SnakEyez02

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That's very odd. It sounds like another marketing screw-up. Every presentation that I've seen has given the impression that the touch apps are included in the Creative Cloud subscription. After reading that page several times, it's clear that they're not included, but that you get a month's rebate if you buy three of them.

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15. osgood_,

Apr 24, 2012 10:24 AM in reply to SnakEyez02

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SnakEyez02 wrote:

Osgood, from everything I've read and the webinars I've sat in on from Adobe, you will not be forced to accept the updates. So if one breaks compatibility with your older OS, you just pay to continue using the old version until you upgrade your OS and can use the new version. There are featuers in newer operating systems that users will want to take advantage of that just are not capable in older operating systems. A perfect example of this is Lightroom 4 not working with XP.

Thanks Snak, thought that may be the case but need to iron out all these issues before taking the plunge.

Again how many software versions back will Adobe store on their servers just incase there is a glitch and you need to reinstall. Can you copy a software download to an external device and re-install it from that should it be necessary to do so or will you be left up a creek without a paddle possibly having no option but to upgrade to a later OS.

At least with a disk you have the options under your control. I know people do download directly from the net and the product versions which you have purchased Adobe make available to you under your account. Will the version which you downloaded from Cloud be available under your account?

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16. David_Powers,

Apr 24, 2012 10:28 AM in reply to SnakEyez02

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SnakEyez02 wrote:

Osgood, from everything I've read and the webinars I've sat in on from Adobe, you will not be forced to accept the updates.

That's correct. However, Osgood's question raises an interesting point. All the explanations that I've heard have concentrated on mid-cycle updates. The answer has always been that it's up to you whether to accept the update and when to apply it. What hasn't been raised is the question of continuing to use CS6 when CS7, CS8, or CS9 is the current version. In theory, I suppose it should, even though it's not officially supported by Adobe. However, I suppose you'd be rather perverse to pay a monthly subscription for software if you didn't intend to keep reasonably up to date with the new releases.

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17. osgood_,

Apr 24, 2012 10:36 AM in reply to David_Powers

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David_Powers wrote:
However, I suppose you'd be rather perverse to pay a monthly subscription for software if you didn't intend to keep reasonably up to date with the new releases.

That's a reasonable point but I've worked out a couple of years subscription is going to cost me a lost less than upgrading all the applications that I use. But I might take CS6 and not want to do anymore upgrades until CS8. CS7 most likely will not run on Snow Leopard (don't even know if CS6 will run on Snow Leopard yet) and I have no intention on upgrading to Lion or Mountain Lion in the forseeable future as it will most likely wipe out some of the other non-Adobe applications that I run.

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18. SnakEyez02,

Apr 24, 2012 10:48 AM in reply to osgood_

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osgood_ wrote:

That's a reasonable point but I've worked out a couple of years subscription is going to cost me a lost less than upgrading all the applications that I use. But I might take CS6 and not want to do anymore upgrades until CS8. CS7 most likely will not run on Snow Leopard (don't even know if CS6 will run on Snow Leopard yet) and I have no intention on upgrading to Lion or Mountain Lion in the forseeable future as it will most likely wipe out some of the other non-Adobe applications that I run.

It's unfortunate with the old license agreement osgood. Under the new licensing agreement for virtual systems, you are now allowed to install Lion as a virtual guest OS and Parallels has a KB article for it ( http://kb.parallels.com/112121 ). What app is holding you back? Quicken? That one was solved not too long ago ( http://quicken.intuit.com/personal-finance-software/quicken-2007-osx-l ion.jsp ). I can't think of any other big apps out there that still use Rosetta.

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19. osgood_,

Apr 25, 2012 12:19 AM in reply to SnakEyez02

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SnakEyez02 wrote:

osgood_ wrote:

That's a reasonable point but I've worked out a couple of years subscription is going to cost me a lost less than upgrading all the applications that I use. But I might take CS6 and not want to do anymore upgrades until CS8. CS7 most likely will not run on Snow Leopard (don't even know if CS6 will run on Snow Leopard yet) and I have no intention on upgrading to Lion or Mountain Lion in the forseeable future as it will most likely wipe out some of the other non-Adobe applications that I run.
It's unfortunate with the old license agreement osgood. Under the new licensing agreement for virtual systems, you are now allowed to install Lion as a virtual guest OS and Parallels has a KB article for it ( http://kb.parallels.com/112121 ). What app is holding you back? Quicken? That one was solved not too long ago ( http://quicken.intuit.com/personal-finance-software/quicken-2007-osx-l ion.jsp ). I can't think of any other big apps out there that still use Rosetta.

Hi Snake,

I've never been that keen on upgrading OS's until I really find the necessity to do so and that's probably once every 4 years, when I purchase a new computer. I have some little apps which convert PC files to work on the Mac plus ftp programs such as Transmit. At the moment I have everything I require running under Snow Leopard without any issues. The minute I upgrade something stops working somewhere along the line which usually means having to upgrade to a more stable version that's even if that app has been made compatible with the latest OS, which in some cases it has not and never will be.

I had enough trouble getting some Adobe products to run under Snow Leopard, notably Photoshop CS3 and Illustrator CS3. I had and have no real desire to update to the current software versions as they offer little in the way that I would use and its money wasted. If there is a major update that will help my workflow then I'll consider it. Thats the issue with software - very little changes over a wide period of time. Quark Xpress for example, I could still get by using version 3. I'm now on 7 but to be honest I don't really need it. Yes, it has introduced a few new features like drop shadows but you could always apply drop shadows via an extension anyway. Updates are just not attractive UNLESS something cutting edge is introduced. Now if Adobe were to introduce a CMS into DW my money would be on the table straight away. Do I care about the new flexible device grid in DW CS6, not really because you can easily build device dependent pages right NOW without them. Do I care about the updated CSS panel to include multiple classes, nope I'll just apply multiple classes directly in code view. Would I have updated to CS6, probably not right away because from what I've read its new features appear to be dissappointing. Am I a little more interested in Creative Cloud...yes. I think its reasonably priced and gives you access to any software. So I can download all the CS6 applications and run them for 2/3 years, that's if they run on Snow Leopard. If they don't then I'll stick with what I have until I'm 'forced' into upgrading the OS.

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20. Nancy O.,

Apr 25, 2012 10:29 AM in reply to David_Powers

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Hi David,

Re: licensing

Maybe you or someone else knows the answer to this.

For now, Adobe software can be installed on up to 2 computers at the same time (i.e. desktop & laptop).

Do you know if this policy will remain the same for Creative Cloud subscribers?

Nancy O.

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21. SnakEyez02,

Apr 25, 2012 10:54 AM in reply to Nancy O.

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Yes Nancy. However, it can be 1 PC & 1 Mac now for Cloud only (another benefit).

http://www.adobe.com/special/tnt/ccm0001/_modal_faq.html

Wish I had a better way to link to it but it's a modal window now.Under "Any Benefits to" and "On how many computers" questions.

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22. Nancy O.,

Apr 25, 2012 10:56 AM in reply to SnakEyez02

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Thanks SnakEyez. Appreciate it.

N

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23. jeaninebennett,

May 5, 2012 2:16 PM in reply to David_Powers

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Hi David,

I am new to the forum so forgive me if this is out of order. I purchased Adobe Design Premium CS5 a while back. My computer crashed and I lost my hard drive, I am in the process of loading my programs back up & can't find my disk. I have my product key codes & registration number but can't find a download for it. Do you have any suggestions?

I aprreciate your help,

Jeanine

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24. Peter Spier,

May 8, 2012 4:02 PM in reply to jeaninebennett

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Jeanine,

We currently can't branch your question to a new thread where it belongs, so I'll answer here, but next time please start a new topic if your question is not specifically related to the current thread.

You can download older trial versions here: Download Adobe CS4 and CS3 Free Trials Here (incl. After Effects) | ProDesignTools

The installer is the same, so if you have your serial number it should work. A word of warning though, you must follow the directions on that page very carefully or you will not be successful.

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