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Effects Brought Back in Audition CS6?

Apr 21, 2012 10:15 AM

I, like many Audition users were disappointed to see many features stripped away when Audition 3 moved on to CS5.5. I was particularly frustrated that the convolution and vocoder effects were removed will these return in CS6? They are particularly useful tools for sound design (which is what I do), especially when creating transitions from one sound to another. I also thought the 'Generate..' effects were a major oversight, though I see a new version of 'generate tones' is to be in CS6, but what about 'Generate Noise'. Is it possible to have a full list of effects in CS6?

 
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 21, 2012 2:49 PM   in reply to topmonkey

    The convolved reverb is back, but I've seen no signs of a Vocoder (mainly because it isn't there...). Yes, there's a revised tone generator, but noise isn't included. I'm moderately confident that noise is in the backlog, but I have to warn you that like anything that isn't there upon release, it  would look like a new feature if it was added later, and there appear to be one or two problems (think SarBox) about doing that - or there have been in the past with Adobe, anyway. Thing about noise generaters is that there are plenty of free or pretty cheap ones about, and whilst a few people think that they're indispensible, unfortunately a lot of others don't...

     

    As for a full list of effects - well, I'd be the first to admit that the list of new and added effects doesn't look very long, and it's also rather confusing because you have to add it to what's already in CS5.5. If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll try and do a complete list, rather than the way it is. Is what's in the new and added list complete? I honestly don't know until I've been through it!

     
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    Apr 21, 2012 2:55 PM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    I'm not qualified, and probably no one is interested, but a useful document would compare the features in Auditions 3, 5.5 and 6.  It could be a sticky in this forum.  If this forum had stickies, I mean. :-)

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 21, 2012 3:30 PM   in reply to therealdobro

    Forum only has FAQ's, and it wouldn't be an easy thing to create a list like that - a lot of the differences are subtle, especially when it comes to suite integration, and some of the subtleties of MV. I think that in general, it's probably wiser to have done what the devs have done, producing a list of what the next version will do, roughly in comparison with the CS5.5 release. That's not so bad to do, because the new one is based very firmly on that, whereas Audition 3 is a somewhat different animal.

     

    I think that what it comes down to is that most people think 'I want x - does the new version do it?' and they want to see it in a list. And also, they'd probably like a list of what isn't in it, just to give them something to complain about...

     
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    Apr 21, 2012 3:44 PM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    SteveG(AudioMasters) wrote:

     

    I think that what it comes down to is that most people think 'I want x - does the new version do it?' and they want to see it in a list.

    Well, that's how I think, so you might be right.

     

    The reason I was thinking of a chart that compared features in three versions is it would be easy to steer people with questions to it.  Plus, I might actually learn something.

     
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    Apr 21, 2012 4:19 PM   in reply to therealdobro

    There's a great feature matrix web page prepared for the launch.  I'll see if I can get permission to post it, or at least its contents, here.  Might be a few days as I'm out of the country right now. 

     

    Also, while Sarbanes-Oxley is the SarBANEs of my existence (see what I did there?) in many ways, Adobe Creative Cloud subscriptions may enable us to release features between standard release cycles.  I know the idea of subscription-based software licenses is scary to many, and until I'm much more knowledgeable about the service and how Audition fits in, I don't want to say something incorrect or that I'll regret.  (The internet remembers F O R E V E R.) When I have all the information, we'll talk.

     

    Here's a quick list of the effects present in Au3 that are not yet ported as of CS6:

     

    Generate Noise

    DTMF Signals.  (This can be accomplished manually within Generate Tones, to some degree.)

    Pitch Bender

    Stereo Field Rotate

    Stereo Expander

    Pan/Expand

    Graphic Panner

    Binaural Auto-Panner

    Convolution

    Dynamic EQ

    Quick Filter

    Scientific Filter

    Dynamic Delay

    Echo Chamber

    Multitap Delay

    Envelope Follower

    Frequency Band Splitter

    Vocoder

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 22, 2012 3:28 AM   in reply to _durin_

    The other slight snageroo with effects list comparisons is that as of CS6, they aren't really going to be comparisons as such anyway. For instance, even if you say that the Dynamics Processor is present in AA3, 4 and 5, that doesn't tell you that in 5, it has side chain access, does it? You are going to end up with one heck of a lot of footnotes if you're going to do this justice, what with all the changes...

     

    Anyway, I said I'd do a list of the effects in CS6, and having just gone through it, I can see why Durin doesn't want to - it's quite a long list! What I hope it does though is put Durin's list of exclusions into some sort of perspective...

     

    Amplitude and Compression

    Amplify

    Channel Mixer

    De Esser

    Dynamics Processing

    Hard Limiter

    Multiband Compression

    Normalize (process)

    Single Band Compressor

    Speech Volume Leveler

    Tube-Modelled Compressor

    Fader Envelope (process)

    Gain Envelope (process)

     

    Delay and Echo

    Analog Delay

    Delay

    Echo

     

    Diagnostics (yeah, I know... but they're in the Effects list!)

    De Clicker (process)

    De Clipper (process)

    Delete Silence (process)

    Mark Audio (process)

     

    Filter and EQ

    FFT Filter

    Graphic EQ 10 band

    Graphic EQ 20 band

    Graphic EQ 30 band

    Notch Filter

    Parametric EQ

     

    Modulation

    Chorus

    Chorus/Flanger

    Flanger

    Phaser

     

    Noise Reduction / Restoration

    Capture Noise Print

    Noise Reduction (process)

    ______________________

    Adaptive Noise Reduction

    Automatic Click Remover

    Automatic Phase Correction

    De Hummer

    Hiss Reduction (process)

     

    Reverb

    Convolution Reverb

    Full Reverb

    Reverb

    Studio Reverb

    Surround Reverb

     

    Special

    Distortion

    Doppler Shifter (process)

    Guitar Suite

    Mastering

    Vocal Enhancer

     

    Stereo Imagery

    Center Channel Extractor

    Graphic Phase Shifter

     

    Time and Pitch

    Automatic Pitch Correction

    Manual Pitch Correction (process)

    Stretch and Pitch (process)

     

    Also Generate Tones and Match Volume are in the Effects pulldown menu.

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 22, 2012 4:29 AM   in reply to topmonkey

    topmonkey wrote:

     

     

    • Faster, more precise editing. Dozens of new enhancements accelerate your workflow, such as

    real-time clip stretching, Automatic Speech Alignment, Automatic and Manual Pitch Correction,

    Skip Selection edit preview, View Markers For All Files in the Markers panel, and more.

    - New pitch features sound good, though I already use V-Vocal for pitch-correction in Sonar and I would never use Automatic Speech Alignment, unless it worked for vocal harmonies too.


    Automatic Speech Alignment is a time-based feature designed mainly for use in ADR to compensate for vocal talent who can't lip-sync... it takes an existing speech track and the replacement, and attempts to line up the new words with the old ones. I haven't tried this in anger because I don't do video any more, but it occurred to me that if you want to do vocal overdubs and want to improve the alignment, it might be able to help. Depends entirely on how the detection algorithm works with non-speech.

     

    • Native multichannel support (5.1 surround). Work with multichannel projects, creating entire

    surround soundtracks or polishing up 5.1 audio.

    - Audition 3 already has 5.1 support.

    Not like this it doesn't! Multichannel support extends into plugins (where they support it) and lets you do all sorts of things you couldn't do previously. For instance, I don't do surround stuff (IMHO it's significantly over-rated), but I do have a Soundfield microphone, which produces 4 channels of B-format output that I can 'steer' after the event - more useful than you might think. Previously I had to do this in a very convoluted way outside of Audition, but now I can do it using a plugin within Audition itself - and the result sounds a lot better. It's also the revised routing arrangements that make things like side-chaining possible.

     
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    Apr 22, 2012 4:47 AM   in reply to topmonkey

    Automatic Speech Alignment is NOT intended for non-speech material, and even then it should not be expected to create miracles.  It does an excellent job, we believe we can continue to improve the algorithm in the future to make it more accurate and allow more flexibility, but this is not intended to be a music-related feature.  You might get some creative or interesting results, and I have, but its value lies in taking two pieces of speech with the same words and a relatively similar timing, and squeeze/stretch the bits to match the ADR take to the original source.

     

    Don't think it's not cool and slick - it absolutely is and will save a LOT of time in ADR workflows.  But it is not yet a one-click solution for every alignment problem.  It is also not useful for simply aligning separate copies of the same recording like Premiere or PluralEyes offers.  The algorithm actively manipulates your recording and is most suited to short passages that are already close, but not quite right.

     
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    Apr 22, 2012 4:55 AM   in reply to topmonkey

    You can safely have all versions of CEP & Audition installed on a PC without them impacting each other.

    In fact I have most versions installed for some of the testing I had to do for ses2sesx and trust me when I say how painful it was having to use versions which used to be my 'favourites'.  Who can live without x-fades now and how slow are these old versions even on a killer pc compared to CS5.5?

     

    I'm too am also looking forward to seeing how Automatic Speech Alignment will work with backing vocals - could be a real time saver.

     

    I guess I have to count myself as lucky because there is nothing on the 'missing' list that I care strongly enough to complain about.

     

    YMMV

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 22, 2012 6:12 AM   in reply to topmonkey

    topmonkey wrote:

     

    Automatic Speech Alignment sounds like it's no use to anyone in the real world and just an Adobe 'wow' moment for the promo videos, especially with the new clip time stretching functions, it would be much better to use these to manually align dialogue and probably almost as quick. But we'll see...

    I think that the problem here isn't that you couldn't do it manually if you wanted, but that most editors can't be bothered. And I see enough out-of-sync material on the TV to make me think that if there was an easy way to fix this, more editors would do it - it's the fact that it's almost overwhelming us that's the problem - they simply don't have the time to correct anything other than the most blatent stuff.

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 22, 2012 6:54 AM   in reply to topmonkey

    topmonkey wrote:

     

    But is this waht most people use Audition for? I don't know.

    Well, it might well be something that the CS6 purchasers would use, certainly. Standalone users? Not so sure...

     
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    Apr 22, 2012 9:23 AM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    SteveG(AudioMasters) wrote:

     

    The other slight snageroo with effects list comparisons is that as of CS6, they aren't really going to be comparisons as such anyway. For instance, even if you say that the Dynamics Processor is present in AA3, 4 and 5, that doesn't tell you that in 5, it has side chain access, does it?

    That's right, and I didn't know that 5's Dynamic Processor has side chain access!  (I haven't explored 5 as much as I might have because 3, by comparison, was still more useful to me.)  (That's going to change with 6.)

    I've gone through the headings in the pdf help, but not seen it - where is it?  Or is it just a matter of routing the tracks to make it work?

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 22, 2012 10:29 AM   in reply to therealdobro

    therealdobro wrote:

     

    That's right, and I didn't know that 5's Dynamic Processor has side chain access!  (I haven't explored 5 as much as I might have because 3, by comparison, was still more useful to me.)  (That's going to change with 6.)

    I've gone through the headings in the pdf help, but not seen it - where is it?  Or is it just a matter of routing the tracks to make it work?

    Be careful - I said AA 5, not Audition CS5.5... it's not in CS5.5.

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 22, 2012 10:56 AM   in reply to _durin_

    _durin_ wrote:

     

    Automatic Speech Alignment is NOT intended for non-speech material, and even then it should not be expected to create miracles.  It does an excellent job, we believe we can continue to improve the algorithm in the future to make it more accurate and allow more flexibility, but this is not intended to be a music-related feature.  You might get some creative or interesting results, and I have, but its value lies in taking two pieces of speech with the same words and a relatively similar timing, and squeeze/stretch the bits to match the ADR take to the original source.

     

    Don't think it's not cool and slick - it absolutely is and will save a LOT of time in ADR workflows.  But it is not yet a one-click solution for every alignment problem.  It is also not useful for simply aligning separate copies of the same recording like Premiere or PluralEyes offers.  The algorithm actively manipulates your recording and is most suited to short passages that are already close, but not quite right.

     

    Of course, now you all want to know what it sounds like with music, don't you?

     

    Actually, it's not as bad as I thought it might be.

     

    Here is a before/after example on an untreated vocal: Alignment_example.mp3

    First half is the two vocals with only an aligned start. Second half has nothing moved, but the original second vocal has been replaced with the 'corrected' version in exactly the same place.

     

    Okay, you couldn't actually use this, but hey...

     
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    Apr 22, 2012 9:27 PM   in reply to topmonkey

    For those following this thread, the CS6 web site just "turned on" about 30 min ago and you can now see the complete "buying guide" that does a fairly good comparision between 3, CS5.5 and CS6 (the web people only let us go 3 versions back total): http://www.adobe.com/products/audition/buying-guide-version-comparison .html

     

    Colin

     
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    Apr 23, 2012 3:52 PM   in reply to topmonkey

    I see here - http://www.adobe.com/content/dotcom/uk/products/audition/features._sl_ id-contentfilter_sl_featuredisplaytypes_sl_new.html?promoid=JSLUD - under new effects it says "pitch bender".  "Yay", I thought, that is such a staple for me, and one of the reasons I keep using 1.5 still.  But then I saw on this very thread and here - http://www.adobe.com/products/audition/buying-guide-version-comparison .html - that the feature is still absent.  Which is right?

     
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    Apr 23, 2012 4:05 PM   in reply to noiseboyuk

    noiseboyuk wrote:

     

    I see here - http://www.adobe.com/content/dotcom/uk/products/audition/features._sl_ id-contentfilter_sl_featuredisplaytypes_sl_new.html?promoid=JSLUD - under new effects it says "pitch bender".  "Yay", I thought, that is such a staple for me, and one of the reasons I keep using 1.5 still.  But then I saw on this very thread and here - http://www.adobe.com/products/audition/buying-guide-version-comparison .html - that the feature is still absent.  Which is right?

     

    This is an error by the web team and I have notified/yelled at them thoroughly, it seems to only appear on the UK version of the site as the US english pages do not have them listed. How they messed it up is beyond me.

     

    To be confirm, Pitch Bender is NOT in Audition CS6, nor is Generate Noise.We tried to get pitch bender in but simply ran out of time (it's a relatively complex effect to port believe it or not), but it remains VERY high on the list for the future.

     

    Colin

     
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    Apr 23, 2012 4:07 PM   in reply to noiseboyuk

    Hi noiseboyuk

     

    I don't know why the UK feature page is so different, but it is incorrect.  Pitch Bender was not implemented in time for the CS6 release.  I have notified those who can correct the website and apologize for the confusion.

     
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    Apr 24, 2012 12:34 AM   in reply to topmonkey

    Thanks Colin and Durin for clarifying even if the news isn't good.  I appreciate you folks always have a list of missing features with people saying "but it's really important", but it's really important!  Would be nice to just use 1 version of Audition.

     

    This might be a bit OT, but in general it looks to me like you're placing Audition as a full scale dubbing tool.  Is this correct?  Such a hard market to break into where compatibility is king, but the feature set does now look very promising.

     
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    Apr 25, 2012 7:14 AM   in reply to topmonkey

    That is, sadly, the nature of the beast when you have software releases coordinated company-wide, and a product team that works hard to eliminate as many bugs as possible so what IS there works well (safe to say that more bug fixes would have to equal fewer features).  I don't suppose you were around and saw all the discussion (rants/arguments/justifications/whining) when Audition CS5.5 came out?  So, as a long-time Cool Edit, Cool Edit Pro, and Audition user, I sympathize with your questioning the nature of things.  But, at the same time, I'm glad that Audition is alive, well, kicking hard, and about to launch some fresh goods.

     

    So let me encourage you to see the glass as 9/10s full, not a little empty, even if it means running back to an older version for the odd missing feature.

     
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    Apr 25, 2012 8:46 AM   in reply to topmonkey

    Hey, topmonkey, I don't see it that way.  I see CS6 as the 'this is what should have followed Audition 3' release.  Looking at it that way, it hasn't been rushed - it's taken a long time.  But one thing that has impressed the socks right off me is how the dev team got this version out on schedule.  A year ago, Durin predicted it would be out by May, and lo and behold it's coming out in May!  And *that* is why some features weren't included in this release.  So my advice is to lobby NOW for the features you want to see in 7, which will then be forever known as the 'completely there' release. 

     
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    Apr 25, 2012 9:56 AM   in reply to topmonkey

    Remember that if you were a Mac user you would never have used Audition before and therefore CS6 will be a revelation to them.

    That's why it has taken so long because it had to be rebuilt from the ground up to be cross platform. This has also allowed the developers to make the code multi processor conscious and much more efficient/quicker. They wouldn't have been able to do that with the old Syntrillium/Audition 3 based code.

     
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    Apr 25, 2012 10:11 AM   in reply to ryclark

    topmonkey, I agree that AA3 is superior in many ways to CS5.5 -- I'd be crazy to argue otherwise -- and glad you found a copy before it disappeared.  It will forever stay on my system even after I grow to love CS6 or CS7 or whatever...  But there is some forward progress in CS5.5 in that I could do multitrack album editing in it like never before.  CS6 is going to rock...  unless you need a brainwave synchronizer.

     

    Looking forward to the trial/release and how well the multitude of new features & functions hit everyone.

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 25, 2012 10:19 AM   in reply to topmonkey

    topmonkey wrote:

     

    I just don't get the point of rushing a release and leaving out features that are almost ready, especially when said features were already previously part of the program. I'd rather wait for a version of Audition that ticks all the boxes and I'm sure most would agree with me.

    Doesn't work like that. What they worked on for this release is what's in it. Nothing else has already been a part of this particular codebase, simply because it hasn't existed in this form before. If you'd experienced what happened with Audition 2, which was essentially what you are asking for, you'd realise very rapidly why the developers release versions now the way they do. 2 looked and worked like a late beta (still does), and I don't know of anybody who actually likes it at all.

     

    As for 'waiting for a version that ticks all the boxes' - well, how long are you going to wait? If I decided to wait for a version that does absolutely all the things I might ever want, then I'd never have got the program at all - or any other software, come to that. Simply because it doesn't exist. But for the vast majority of things I ever realistically want to do, Audition CS6 does them. Okay, CS5.5 didn't, but for those few things I wanted that it didn't do, I still kept Audition 3 on the DAW. I knew exactly what the purpose of CS5.5 was, and didn't object to this - just as the half a dozen mac users who got it didn't, either (I don't think that there are actually any more than that... hehe!). Basically, the concept of 'feature complete' doesn't exist for Audition, just as it doesn't for most other software; just like the concept of 'bug free' doesn't.

     
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    Apr 25, 2012 10:32 AM   in reply to topmonkey

    topmonkey wrote:

     

    MusicConductor - I started using the first version of Cool Edit Pro at Uni and then bought my own copy of CEP 2.0, so yes I have followed the programs progress - how I miss the Brainwave Synchronizer lol. I managed to source an Audition 3 upgrade (fully legit) after downloading a trial of CS5.5 and deciding it wasn't worth paying over £300 for. I can't believe any Audition 3 users upgraded to CS5.5 - I have no idea why Adobe even bothered releasing it. But as you say, CS6 is certainly heading in the right direction now, I just wish they had spent less time on this alignment effect and more time on restoring 3.0 features.

     

    therealdobro - I have high hopes for CS7. I shall be giving CS6 a spin when the trial arrives, so I will suspend my decision on whether to upgrade until then!

     

     

    topmonkey - First, thanks for all the feedback. RE upgrading, at the end of the day, all we ask is that you take it for a spin and see for yourself and I appreciate that you're willing to do that.

     

    My end goal personally, and why I work here and do what I do, is help people to be productive, creative and get the job done they need to do. If CS6 does that for you (or even is 90% there), then great! but if not, we get it and all we ask for is for constructive feedback (somewhere out there is an Audition feature request/bug request form which goes to a team mailbox).

     

    this might sound like crazy talk, but we are even ok if you want to just stay on an old version forever. I realize they're not supported anymore, but if it's your perfect audio tool and no matter what we do will ever change that in the future versions, then we are honestly OK with that. Sure we'd like you to upgrade and I believe you'll be surprised once you dig in to the new version, but we can't make you like CS6 nor can anyone else, that's something you have to decide for yourself :-) and it sounds like by early May'ish (I'm hearing May ~7th estimated dates) ship will start and trials should begin around then.

     

    Colin

     
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    Apr 25, 2012 5:30 PM   in reply to topmonkey

    topmonkey wrote:

     

    It's great that Adobe now seem to be listening to what users want.

    Just to chime in here -- it's not about giving you what you want, but giving you what you need. It might sound like nitpicking, but the difference is incredibly significant to a software developer.

     

    Our usage patterns are like fingerprints -- no two are exactly alike. As some on this forum have already heard me say ad nauseum, I'd sell my firstborn for a scripting API for Audition. Couldn't give a crap about CD burning. Odds are very high that we can throw a microphone in a random direction and find someone who feels the exact opposite. Does this mean that I'm wrong? No, it means Adobe needs to get as many points of view as possible to get a fair idea of how Audition can best serve the community as a whole. Our job isn't to give them a work sheet -- they need data. Lots of it, given in a structured and constructive way.

     

    So, while it's incredibly important that we share our experiences, describe our workflows and enumerate the tools we rely upon, we shouldn't treat this dialogue (which, by the way, is quite rare in the audio field) as a buffet where we pick and choose which features go in next. Design-by-committee is a one-way street to feature hell, and it never ends well.

     

    (By the way, I don't mean to single you out personally. I just picked your quote as a suitable anchor for making this point)

     
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  • SteveG(AudioMasters)
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    Apr 26, 2012 4:52 AM   in reply to topmonkey

    topmonkey wrote:

     

    .... but all people were asking for when CS5.5 was coming out was that nothing is taken away that was already part of the program in 3.0.

     

    The point here is that this was simply not possible within the launch timescale set by Adobe corporate. They haven't even managed that now, for heaven's sake! The whole argument hangs around the best use of finite resources; Adobe have to pay developers, but they also have to sell some software, and there's a delicate balance point you have to try to reach with this to prevent going broke in the process.

     

    Also, what people wanted even more than 'nothing taken away' was that Audition CS5.5 didn't do what Audition 2 did when it was launched, and continues to do...

     
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    Apr 26, 2012 7:31 AM   in reply to SteveG(AudioMasters)

    The impression I'm getting is that the Audition developers have tried their best to listen to users' feature requests so it's probably worthwhile to head over to the Feature Request sub forum ( http://forums.adobe.com/community/audition/audition_general/audition_f eature_requests ) and post away.

     
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    Apr 26, 2012 12:55 PM   in reply to Bob Howes

    Bob Howes wrote:

     

    The impression I'm getting is that the Audition developers have tried their best to listen to users' feature requests so it's probably worthwhile to head over to the Feature Request sub forum ( http://forums.adobe.com/community/audition/audition_general/audition_f eature_requests ) and post away.

    +1

     

    The development team's receptivity and skills, plus this forum's experienced and helpful users, is the main reason why Audition's so good.  I'm astounded at how good it is, considering that it's housed in a giant corporation.  Don't tell Adobe.  They probably wouldn't like it.

     
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    Apr 26, 2012 4:46 PM   in reply to therealdobro

    > Don't tell Adobe.  They probably wouldn't like it.

     

    Hey!

     

    Actually, several folks on other product teams hold up the Audition team and their interaction with customers  as an example of how everyone should work.

     
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