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Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4

Apr 26, 2012 5:10 AM

Why does the clarity slider seem different to me in LR4 (4.1 RC actually)? IN LR3 I loved that thing. I would ramp it up quite a bit with many photos. It would give it a nice crisp look. Now it seems as if it just makes my shots look like they have too much contrast. Also, when using the clarity brush, many times it seems as if where I paint it on it actually lightens it up. I havce had to look as see if I had the exposure tool on instead.

 

Also, I swear a "medium contrast" tone curve setting is different now as well. This was the default setting in LR3. Now default is linear. But if I apply a medium curve from the drop down, it looks over cooked? What the heck? Are these things just me? BTW I am working RAW files. Thanks

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 6:05 AM   in reply to idsurfer1

    Linear in PV2012 is sames as Medium in PV2010 (tone curve).

     

    Also, the clarity algorithm is changed - in my opinion mostly for the better but definitely needs to be used more gingerly and/or in different circumstances.

     
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    Apr 26, 2012 4:36 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    In PV2010 with some photos I found that starting with a linear tone curve was helpful. Is there any way to duplicate that in PV2012 if you want to start with a totally flat curve? Sounds like flat is no longer flat. Also, what was the intention when they made the decision to make linear in PV2012 the equivalent of medium in PV2010?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 4:37 PM   in reply to JA430

    Flat was never flat.

     

    If you want to use the old linear, put an image in PV2010, select linear, and convert it to PV2012.  The new tone curve is equal to the old linear.  You can save it if you like.

     
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    Apr 26, 2012 6:07 PM   in reply to JA430

    I recommend using DNG Profile Editor to create camera calibration profile(s) with a reduced contrast "linear equivalent" tone curve. That way, you don't end up with a bunch of points already on the curve in Lightroom.

     

    You can either create an equivalent curve by eye, or if you want it exact you can use numbers (it's a bit of a stunt, but I'll help if you choose to go that route).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 9:29 PM   in reply to Lee Jay

    Thanks Lee Jay. That sounds like a good solution. Was there a reason why they got rid of the old linear and replaced with a higher contrast curve?

     
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    Apr 26, 2012 9:32 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Thanks Rob. I will have a look at the DNG Profile editor. I am not familiar with it at this point and will probably need to take some time with it. Thanks for the offer to help me out should I try that route. In practice, do you find the enhanced contrast of the new linear objectionable?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 1:15 AM   in reply to JA430

    If you want a PV2010 linear tone curve for PV2012, using the DNG Profile Editor (DPE):

     

    * convert any raw file to DNG (if not already DNG)

    * load it into the DPE

    * Edit things if you want, except for the tone curve.

    * Save the recipe.

    * Load it (dcpr file) into a text editor.

    * Replace the tone curve with this:


    <dngclr:ToneCurve rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:Edit0 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>0</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>0</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit0>

    <dngclr:Edit1 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>17</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>26</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit1>

    <dngclr:Edit2 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>34</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>44</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit2>

    <dngclr:Edit3 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>51</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>60</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit3>

    <dngclr:Edit4 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>68</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>74</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit4>

    <dngclr:Edit5 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>85</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>89</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit5>

    <dngclr:Edit6 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>102</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>105</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit6>

    <dngclr:Edit7 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>119</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>120</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit7>

    <dngclr:Edit8 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>136</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>135</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit8>

    <dngclr:Edit9 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>153</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>151</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit9>

    <dngclr:Edit10 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>170</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>167</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit10>

    <dngclr:Edit11 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>187</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>183</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit11>

    <dngclr:Edit12 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>204</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>200</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit12>

    <dngclr:Edit13 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>221</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>218</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit13>

    <dngclr:Edit14 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>238</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>236</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit14>

    <dngclr:Edit15 rdf:parseType="Resource">

    <dngclr:X>255</dngclr:X>

    <dngclr:Y>255</dngclr:Y>

    </dngclr:Edit15>

    </dngclr:ToneCurve>

    * Re-save the file in your text editor

    * Re-load the changed recipe in DPE

    * Export a profile with a tone curve equivalent to PV2010 linear.

     

    Note: The tone/point curve in Lightroom will not have any points on it that way.

     

    PS - This procedure assumes you will be using the "Base Profile" for "Base Tone Curve" in order to achieve equivalence with PV2010 linear in PV2012 (for the same Cam-cal profile(s)). If what you want is a truly linear tone curve, select "Linear" as "Base Tone Curve".

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 11:40 PM   in reply to JA430

    JA430 wrote:

     

    In practice, do you find the enhanced contrast of the new linear objectionable?

    I don't care about it at all, to be honest.

     

    One can always use the contrast slider and/or tone curve to create the desired contrast regardless of the starting point, and I have my own camera calibration profiles for different things anyway, so "linear" to me just means "not yet modified...".

     

    If it's any consolation, I think Adobe should have provided a "legacy linear" tone curve preset, to match the linear in PV2010, thus avoiding the need to use DPE to accomplish what some were used to doing natively in previous Lightroom version. But in the interest of making lemonade from lemons, consider trying to see this as an opportunity to become familiar with DPE .

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 3:34 AM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob Cole wrote:

     

    Also, the clarity algorithm is changed - in my opinion mostly for the better but definitely needs to be used more gingerly and/or in different circumstances.

     

    after using it for a while and close inspection i thinks it´s a double sided sword.

    for some images it works good for others it´s horrible.

     

    i know it´s now twice as strong... but i speak about color/brigthness changes.

     

    imo it should be reworked / improved.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 3:47 AM   in reply to -Agfaclack-

    -Agfaclack- wrote:

     

    after using it for a while and close inspection i thinks it´s a double sided sword.

    for some images it works good for others it´s horrible.

    No argument.

     

     

    -Agfaclack- wrote:

     

    ...but i speak about color/brigthness changes.

     

    imo it should be reworked / improved.

    How would you describe these proposed improvements?

     

     

    R

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 4:06 AM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob Cole wrote:

     

    How would you describe these proposed improvements?

     

     

     

    im to lazy to search the other thread about it.... i hope you don´t mind.

     

    but in short: NO color changes, NO brightness changes.

    just the best of both worlds: no halos (that is good with the new clarity) ... but also no color shifts and brigthness changes.

     

    i found that the new clarity slider often effects the whole image to much, not just only the midtone contrast.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 4:07 AM   in reply to -Agfaclack-

    Fair enough - thanks.

    R

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 6:47 AM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Thanks Rob. That makes good sense. Guess I just got in the habit of turning to the linear tone curve as a way of attempting to start from a more neutral point as far as contrast was concerned.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 6:58 AM   in reply to JA430

    You're welcome.

     

    JA430 wrote:

     

    Guess I just got in the habit of turning to the linear tone curve as a way of attempting to start from a more neutral point as far as contrast was concerned.

     

    Understood. - and you are not alone...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 5, 2012 8:54 AM   in reply to idsurfer1

    Comment on

     

    Also, when using the clarity brush, many times it seems as if where I paint it on it actually lightens it up

     

     

    I expierenced a lighting up caused by brushing the clarity when brushing the clarity in PV2010 and then converting it to PV2012: When adjusting the clarity slider in the brushed and P'V converted image, the clarity slider inevitably resulted in a brightening (or darkening) of the brushed area.

     

    The problem however disappeared when deleting the brush, brushing the same area again and adjusting the clarity slider only then!

     

    @Adobe: Can you please check the situation. Would be ready to provide you with more details. Just contact me if needed.

     
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