Skip navigation
Mathias17
Mathias17
439 posts
Feb 20, 2012
Currently Being Moderated

What is: Effect > Path > Outline Object & Outline Stroke for?

Apr 27, 2012 8:15 AM

They've mystified me since I noticed them.

 

Lords of Illustrator, forgive your humble servant's blatant ignorance, but searches and experimentation have come up disinsightful (possible a new word) - what do you do with these?

 

 

(Right now, I'm making a focused effort to figure out everything I can do with live Appearance Panel effects - the more I know, the better I feel I set up artwork, non-destructively. It's great. Correct Answer will manifest happy dancing.)

11682 Views   40 Replies   Latest reply: Monika Gause, May 13, 2012 6:02 AM
 
Replies 1 2 Previous Next
  • Larry G. Schneider
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Larry G. Schneider,
    Apr 27, 2012 9:09 AM   in reply to Mathias17
    Report

    Using an Effect is just a way to nondestructively do the same thing as Object>Path>Outline Object or Outline Stroke. Set up two of the same objects and compare the results.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Mathias17
    439 posts
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Mathias17,
    Apr 27, 2012 9:15 AM   in reply to Larry G. Schneider
    Report

    Ok.

     

    disinsightful.PNG

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Kurt Gold
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Kurt Gold,
    Apr 27, 2012 9:32 AM   in reply to Mathias17
    Report

    Among other things they are useful (and often required) in conjunction with Pathfinder effects.

     

    Are you interested in some sample files for detection?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Mathias17
    439 posts
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Mathias17,
    Apr 27, 2012 9:43 AM   in reply to Kurt Gold
    Report

    Heh, sure Kurt. Thank you for your time. And, just to be clear - what I'm interested most in is dispelling my ignorance. Anything that achieves that is a wonderful thing.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Jesseham
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jesseham,
    Apr 27, 2012 10:09 AM   in reply to Mathias17
    Report

    A simple example - In the case of Outline Stroke, basically it would have susequent effects operate on the resulting outlined object (the one on the right) as opposed to the stroke (left example)

    Screen shot 2012-04-27 at 10.01.07 AM.png

     

    It is an odd one to puzzle out, as by itself, it appears to do nothing. And yeah, the appearance panel kicks ***.  I remember the epiphany when I discovered it and was like "wow - I've been doing it ALL wrong..."  [edit:] Amusingly (well, now anyway) the other "oh my god" moment was finding offset path and realizing that I didn't have to do it by hand.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Mathias17
    439 posts
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Mathias17,
    Apr 27, 2012 10:26 AM   in reply to Jesseham
    Report

    Ah! Excellent.

     

    (know exactly what you mean about the Aha! moments.)

     

    Could you also give an example of Outline Object working?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • emil emil
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. emil emil,
    Apr 27, 2012 11:39 AM   in reply to Mathias17
    Report

    Download this and check the Outline effects example file

    ftp://tpettit.best.vwh.net/AI_10_Style_demos.zip

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Mathias17
    439 posts
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Mathias17,
    Apr 27, 2012 12:14 PM   in reply to emil emil
    Report

    Wow! So much I don't know . . .

     

    Thank you!

     

     

     

    (drew these guys just yesterday, they would like to dance for you now)

     

    DANCE DANCE.PNG

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Kurt Gold
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Kurt Gold,
    Apr 27, 2012 12:27 PM   in reply to Mathias17
    Report

    This question has been Answered.

     

    Time to abscond then.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • emil emil
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. emil emil,
    Apr 27, 2012 12:29 PM   in reply to Mathias17
    Report

    Thanks Mathias, this is one very cool illustration!

     

    To be clear, these files are not mine and I don't know who made them, they are floating on the web and I happened to have the ftp link in my bookmarks.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Larry G. Schneider
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Larry G. Schneider,
    Apr 27, 2012 1:29 PM   in reply to emil emil
    Report

    The artist/engineer is Teri Pettit who's name you will find in the Credits list for Illustrator. She's been with Adobe since the early days of Illustrator and has contributed greatly to the product.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Jesseham
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Jesseham,
    Apr 27, 2012 1:35 PM   in reply to Larry G. Schneider
    Report

    She also used to be one of the few Adobe employees who would slum it down here in with us lowly users.  It's been a few years since she's been here.  She taught me the awesome secret bat cave trick to determine the area of an irregular shape.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • emil emil
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. emil emil,
    Apr 27, 2012 1:36 PM   in reply to Larry G. Schneider
    Report

    There you go, credits go to Teri then. Pasted the name in my bookmark.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Mathias17
    439 posts
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    14. Mathias17,
    Apr 27, 2012 1:43 PM   in reply to Larry G. Schneider
    Report

    My kinda lady!

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • [scott w]
    Currently Being Moderated
    15. [scott w],
    Apr 27, 2012 1:50 PM   in reply to emil emil
    Report

    I love the Appearance panel.

     

    A bit of fun just to explore options with it... one circle, then appearance panel.

    appearancefun.jpg

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Mathias17
    439 posts
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    16. Mathias17,
    Apr 27, 2012 2:42 PM   in reply to [scott w]
    Report

    CRIKEY

     

    That's amazing. I had no idea things this complex were possible with the Appearance Panel. If you link that file I'd love to check it out.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Jesseham
    Currently Being Moderated
    17. Jesseham,
    Apr 27, 2012 7:39 PM   in reply to [scott w]
    Report

    Okay, that is awesome.  At first, I thought you just meant for the flower part, but then I realized the stem, leaves and water drops were in there too!

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • [scott w]
    Currently Being Moderated
    18. [scott w],
    Apr 27, 2012 7:57 PM   in reply to Jesseham
    Report

    Yup. It's all only 1 single circle (you can see the selection highlight for the circle), then the entire image is built using only the Appearance panel.

     

    Wireframe looks like this....  O 

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Wade_Zimmerman
    Currently Being Moderated
    19. Wade_Zimmerman,
    Apr 28, 2012 6:41 PM   in reply to emil emil
    Report

    I think Teri is responsible for developing the Appearance Panel.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Freelance_illustrator
    Currently Being Moderated
    20. Freelance_illustrator,
    Apr 28, 2012 6:45 PM   in reply to [scott w]
    Report

    Nice Scott!

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • [scott w]
    Currently Being Moderated
    21. [scott w],
    Apr 28, 2012 7:15 PM   in reply to Freelance_illustrator
    Report

    Thanks

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Kurt Gold
    Currently Being Moderated
    22. Kurt Gold,
    Apr 29, 2012 10:56 AM   in reply to [scott w]
    Report

    From an experimental point of view that flower is a remarkable study. No doubt.

     

    From a pragmatical point of view it's also a remarkable study that shows how absurdly over-complicated one can construct things inside the Appearance palette which can be done easier and way more straightforward by applying "normal" transformations to simple objects.

     

    The Appearance palette is useful, but it can also be an alluring playground that may mislead your mind.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • [scott w]
    Currently Being Moderated
    23. [scott w],
    Apr 29, 2012 11:11 AM   in reply to Kurt Gold
    Report

    Agreed Kurt.

     

    The point of the exercise for me was to determine at what point is it folly to continue to alter an object via the appearance panel. As well as to study performance differences. For example, I learned the Scribble effect dramatically slows down redraw. The image I posted draws in a few seconds, add a Scribble effect anywhere and that redraw time is easily quadrupled. Glows, shadows, blurs, feathers, etc. don't have that delay which the Scribble Effect provides.

     

    Another goal was to determine just how much transformation can you accomplish and how to get past some limitations (such as the restriction to only move an object 100px via the transform effect). While I'd never actually need anything similar to the flower for real work. It is sometimes handy to know you can create multiple objects which different via the Appearance panel. For example.... eyes or ears of a comic character. That way they stay internally connected and you have less assets to manage. Set up graphic styles for eyes... and they are then just a click away.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Kurt Gold
    Currently Being Moderated
    24. Kurt Gold,
    Apr 29, 2012 11:30 AM   in reply to [scott w]
    Report

    I once did a (rather simple, but not too simple) topographic map just by using the Appearance palette. An enlightening experience and a sportful experiment ;-)

     

    As for the 100 px limit you mention: Isn't it 4000 px per Transform effect ?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • [scott w]
    Currently Being Moderated
    25. [scott w],
    Apr 29, 2012 12:25 PM   in reply to Kurt Gold
    Report

    hmm.. I only get 100px/pt in any direction.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Kurt Gold
    Currently Being Moderated
    26. Kurt Gold,
    Apr 29, 2012 12:29 PM   in reply to [scott w]
    Report

    You're used to only take the sliders, right?

     

    Type 2798 px into the Move field and see what happens ;-)

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • [scott w]
    Currently Being Moderated
    27. [scott w],
    Apr 29, 2012 1:55 PM   in reply to Kurt Gold
    Report

    I'll be a monkey's uncle. I had no idea. Yup 4000.. THANKS for that!

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Kurt Gold
    Currently Being Moderated
    28. Kurt Gold,
    Apr 29, 2012 2:14 PM   in reply to [scott w]
    Report

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Mathias17
    439 posts
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    29. Mathias17,
    May 11, 2012 9:18 PM   in reply to Kurt Gold
    Report

    (sweet, we can link Youtube's right in the posts, never tried it)

     

     

    I'm sorry man . . . I'm still mystified here . . . I can't get Outline Stroke to work like the above-linked Illy 10 Style Demo.

     

    I took her Distort > Roughen circle, with Outline Stroke applied so that the stroke becomes an outlined path and the subsequent Roughen affects it like it's been outlined and tried to duplicate the outcome from scratch, but I can't do it!

     

    Doesn't work me . . . yet look at the Appearance Panel and compare - they're the same.

     

    arg.PNG arg2.PNG

     

    What is going on?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • emil emil
    Currently Being Moderated
    30. emil emil,
    May 11, 2012 11:46 PM   in reply to Mathias17
    Report

    Is there a difference when you click on the eye in the Appearance panel to hide the Outline Stroke effect? If yes, it is working.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Mathias17
    439 posts
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    31. Mathias17,
    May 12, 2012 12:08 AM   in reply to emil emil
    Report

    Hey, emil.

     

     

     

    No, no difference. Tried that.

     

    As you can see - my Roughen is affecting the path with no outlining taking place, it has a constant width, unlike Teri's stroked path.

     

     

     

    [[[ FILE INCLUDED ]]]

     

     

    teri what have you done this time.PNG

     

    This shouldn't be that hard . . .

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • emil emil
    Currently Being Moderated
    32. emil emil,
    May 12, 2012 12:28 AM   in reply to Mathias17
    Report

    Hmm, works fine here.

    Try this, select your path and from the Appearance panel menu choose Clear Appearance. Then take the eyedropper tool, make sure it is set to copy appearance by double clicking the eye dropper in the tool box. Then while your path without any appearance is selected click on Teri's path to see if it will copy the effect. It may be helpful to turn the smart guided on to make it easier to click on the path with the eyedropper.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Mathias17
    439 posts
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    33. Mathias17,
    May 12, 2012 12:32 AM   in reply to emil emil
    Report

    Yeah, I've always been able to copy her path's Appearance to any other path. That's actually how I've been getting the effect into my files since then.

     

    Are you able to duplicate her results from scratch?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • emil emil
    Currently Being Moderated
    34. emil emil,
    May 12, 2012 12:56 AM   in reply to Mathias17
    Report

    Yes, I can do it from scratch without a problem. The point of my suggestion was when you start from scratch, after you draw the path, first clear its appearance to make sure it is not inheriting something by default. And also create it on a brand new layer.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • tromboniator
    Currently Being Moderated
    35. tromboniator,
    May 12, 2012 1:52 AM   in reply to emil emil
    Report

    Mathias, I'm seeing the same problem (even after clearing the appearance), but can solve it by shifting the effects around the Appearance panel at what I think is random before putting them in their proper places. At least I have not yet determined which changes precede proper functioning. I got it to work on your "crappy" example by shifting both the outline and roughen effects a couple of times each, including applying them to the fill before shifting them back to the stroke. If there's any sense to it I haven't found it yet.

     

    Peter

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • JETalmage
    Currently Being Moderated
    36. JETalmage,
    May 12, 2012 6:25 AM   in reply to Mathias17
    Report

    Applying Outline Path effect can also make text wrap work on an open path:

     

     

    JET

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Mathias17
    439 posts
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    37. Mathias17,
    May 12, 2012 11:30 AM   in reply to tromboniator
    Report

    Wow . . . I still can't get it to work, even after shifting the effects around in the Appearance Panel for about a minute. No change. Very odd. I'm doomed to keep Teri's circle as a Graphic Style I'll have to apply to my own paths if I want the effect to work. What the heck.

     

    No wonder I could never figure out what these effects did, in the past.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Monika Gause
    Currently Being Moderated
    38. Monika Gause,
    May 12, 2012 1:11 PM   in reply to Mathias17
    Report

    Maybe you would like to post an example of what doesn't work.

     

    But in addition to that: Teri's example is from Illustrator 10. There has been a change in the appearance panel in Illustrator CS4 which affects exactly the outline stroke and outline object effects. Stuff that has been possible until Illustrator CS3 is not any more:

    http://www.vektorgarten.de/outline-object-and-stroke.html

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Mathias17
    439 posts
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    39. Mathias17,
    May 12, 2012 3:53 PM   in reply to Monika Gause
    Report

    Did you miss the file I linked above, with the big black and white image in the post? My curvy path should show what Teri's circle is doing, but doesn't.

     

     

     

    Your link led me to here - http://tpettit.best.vwh.net/adobe/index.html

     

    I looked at a bunch of the webpages and files she makes available there. You speak of there being fundamental changes to how Illustrator handles basic things - like Outline Stroke. Well here in Teri's Fill and Stroke Behavior for Compound Shapes she talks about some changes. So, while it's possible that the way Outline Stroke is handled has changed it seems odd that it still works as intended on Teri's circle even in my CS6.

     
    |
    Mark as:
1 2 Previous Next
Actions

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Incoming Links

Bookmarked By (0)

Answers + Points = Status

  • 10 points awarded for Correct Answers
  • 5 points awarded for Helpful Answers
  • 10,000+ points
  • 1,001-10,000 points
  • 501-1,000 points
  • 5-500 points