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jm47
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LR4: different display in Library an Develop!!

Apr 19, 2012 1:13 AM

I am using LR4. I did process a RAW file in the Develop module (i.e. correcting noise) but when I go back to the Library module and selecting this specific image, the corrections do not seem to be applied.

Strange enough, this behaviour seems to be specific to the image (others images do show up in Library with corrections applied in the develop module).

Any explainations?

 

Thks for your help.

jma47

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2012 1:25 AM   in reply to jm47

    Did you use 1:1 view?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2012 10:11 AM   in reply to F. McLion

    This is very strange because I imported images with a preset that includes "render 1:1 previews. When I selected the image in library, and used render 1:1 previews under library, it did the full render and fixed the color noise problem that I had between the two modules. In develop, color noise was fixed; in library the noise was very bad.  Funny that it didn't render them on import; I'll have to check why not.

     

    After redering 1:1 again, when viewed at 1:1 in the library and develop, the image is now the same (color noise gone in both). But, at fit or fill, there is a slight but noticeable difference in the amount of luminance noise reduction applied. Develop view is much smoother, where in library it seems as if the luminance reduction has been reduced or shut off. This is only in fit or fill. At 1:1 they are identical. Any ideas why?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2012 10:31 AM   in reply to jljonathan

    You look at different previews in Library and Develop module.

    The 1:1 from your import belong to the Library previews.

    You find them inside the folder next to your catalog named like your catalog but ending in Previews.lrdata.

     

    The Develop previews belong to the camera raw cache.

    If you use DNG with fast load data embedded, they are embedded and the camera raw cache will only be used *beyond*. i do not understand this part sufficiently, so I'd appreciate if someone could shed more light on the dependancies between fast load data embedded inside DNG and usual camera raw cache.

     

    Cornelia

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2012 10:35 AM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    Forgot to mention: the library preview gets uodated after develop edits.

    You can accelerate / enforce this by menu Library-previews-render standard sized previews.

    Or if you want the DNG embedded previews updated (for other applications which read only the embedded jog preview from a DNG file) menu Metadata - Update DNG preview and metadata.

     

    Cornelia

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2012 12:44 PM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    This still doesn't explain why the library preview look different as regards the luminance noise reduction/sharpening than they do in the develop module (all preview are updated, and 1:1 preview are rendered). This only appears in the fit and fill views. In 1:1 view, the library and the develop view looks identical.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2012 12:56 PM   in reply to jljonathan

    Are you using LR4.1RC?

     

    Just a wild guess... as I have read on this forum that RC does disable noise reduction in certain circumstances in order to address the immediate performance woes...

     

    So I would hope that you could no longer observe this once LR4.1final will be released...

     

    But you are right, I have no explanation for your observations.

     

    Cornelia

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2012 2:29 PM   in reply to jm47

    I too had a funny experience the other day with Library rendering in 4.1RC...

     

    I was working with a set of jpg images of scanned historic documents, that were imported with 1:1 previews rendered. No develop settings were made. When simply viewed in the Develop module, at 1:1, the images were very sharp, just as when viewed by other aps outside of LR. But when viewed in Library at 1:1, the images were blurred. Again, no develop adjustments had been made. Forcing a re-rendering of standard or 1:1 previews did not help.

     

    The problem was only fixed by exiting and restarting LR. Haven't had the problem since then.

     

    4.1RC, Win7, x64

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 19, 2012 3:25 PM   in reply to PhotoGAP

    There is an issue which causes differnences in LR's preview imaging. It is most apparent with very high ISO images (i.e. >ISO 3200) and/or very high sharpening settings. The intermittent "here again - gone again" preview differences also appears to be related:

     

    http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/afm8rbh6tnc31

     

    Can you please provide more information concerning the ISO for these images, along with Noise Reduction, Sharpening, and any other settings you are applying.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 12:39 PM   in reply to jm47

    I am seeing the same problem. I was shooting high ISO with my 7D and applied noise reduction to all images.

     

    I finished editing 1500 photos in Lightroom 4 on a calibrated monitor, running 32Gigs of RAM (still sluggish). I noticed that the Library module was noticeably different from what I saw in the Develop module. It looked like none of the noise reduction I applied had made it to the Library preview. I tried rebuilding the standard previews and it did not work. I zoomed in 1:1 preview and when I zoomed out the preview was correct. Are you kidding me Adobe! I have to click on 1500 photos to view them correctly???

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 1:30 PM   in reply to alaska42

    As mentioned this phenomenon seems to be related to the preview downsampling algorithm bug I reported at the above link. This downsampling algorithm bug causes lightening of the image when viewed at view sizes of 1:4 to Fit view, dependent on your montor resolution. The lightening does NOT go away when zooming to 100% and back to Fit view, so these are two separate but related issues. What they have in common is that it only occurs with very high ISO noisy images. Take any high ISO noisy image and set Luminace Noise Reduction to 0 and Sharpening to 100 or higher. Now look at the image at 100% view and switch between the Develop and Library modules. They should look identical, as expected. Now set to Fit view size and do the same thing. The Develop module image will look correct and the Library module image much lighter.

     

    Can you post the Sharpening and Noise Reduction settings you are using and the camera ISO setting?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 1:57 PM   in reply to trshaner

    NR 29, Sharpening 42, ISO 3200. This is unacceptable for me, I process thousands of noisy images from shooting the Aurora for time-lapse. Sure hope Adobe gets it fixed or I will be back to 3.6.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 3:07 PM   in reply to alaska42

    Place your vote here by clicking on the '+1' voting button at the bottom and adding a reply with the specific issues you are experiencing with LR4:

     

    http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/afm8rbh6tnc31

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2012 6:41 AM   in reply to trshaner

    The NR step is skipped for standard previews for performance reasons.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2012 8:17 AM   in reply to Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

    We are talking about LR4, LR4.1, LR4.1 RC, and LR4.1 RC2, correct?

     

    To see what alaska42 is talking about try the following procedure with a very noisy high ISO (>3200) raw image file:

     

    1) Set both of LR4's Library and Develop modules to 'Fit' view size.

    2) In the Develop module set Sharpening Amount to 0, Luminance Amount to 0, and Color Amount to 0 (i.e. No Sharpening or NR applied).

    3) Switch to the Library module and the the image should look virtually identical.

    4) Go back to the Develop module and set Sharpening to 100 or greater.

    5) Switch to the Library module and the image may, or may not look lighter. This is the intermittent issue.

    6) While still in the Library module click on the image to put it into 100% view mode and let it build a 1:1 preview.

    7) Return to Fit view and now the image should look lighter, and will stay lighter when switching between Develop and Library modules.

     

    I just repeated this using LR4.1 RC2 on my Windows 7 system and got the same results.

     

    Since Noise Reduction is not being applied to the image (i.e. Luminance = 0 and Color = 0) this has nothing to do with noise reduction. Any other thoughts?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2012 9:11 AM   in reply to jm47

    With Lightroom 4.0, I'm having the same issue, and the image I'm working with was made at ISO 100, with no noise reduction applied. Toggling between E key-loupe and D key-Develop there is a clear discrepency in saturation. Also, exporting to either a jpg or a tif, AdobeRGB (1998) or ProPhoto RGB in either format, 8 bit or 16 bit, the Develop saturation settings are not kept in the output file. While it is prominent in a downsized export file, the discrepency, while still evident is much less prominent in a native size export file.

     

    Edit:  I just checked a full size exported jpg AdobeRGB (1998) file at 100% in Preview to the same image in Lightroom 4.0 at 100%. Both are the same. So it seems the issue is between the Develop mode and Loupe or grid view.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2012 12:45 PM   in reply to tcsnaz

    There are two issues and you may be experiencing #1 as explained below:

     

    1) The Downsampling Algorithm used by both LR3 and LR4 for creating screen preview images and for downsizing during exports can introduce artifacts. This causes images with high noise OR high sharpening setting applied to appear lighter at small view sizes onscreen (i.e. Fit view) and when downsized during export. Full-size exports also display the lightening inside LR at smaller view sizes (same as the downsampled images), but not at 100%. If you view the exported LR images inside Photoshop the downsized images appear lighter the same as in LR. Full-size export images do not exhibit lightening at any view size inside PS. Read the bug report I posted to better understand what's happening.

     

    2) When processing very noisy high ISO images LR4's Library module preview sometimes fails to update changes made to noise reduction and/or sharpening settings in the Develop module. This causes the Library module preview image to appear different at small view sizes, but correct after viewing at 100%. This seems to be an intermittent condition that is difficult to duplicate. As Cornelia mentioned:

     

    "Just a wild guess... as I have read on this forum that RC does disable noise reduction in certain circumstances in order to address the immediate performance woes..."

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Calculating status...
    Dec 4, 2012 8:54 AM   in reply to jm47

    I have a similar issue using LR 4.2:

     

    Coming out of Develop module after making a correction for Chromatic Aberration, the preview in the Library module does not immediately update/refresh (seems to reference the old image preview data without new changes).  

     

    Is there a way to force a view/refresh for an individual image preview in the Library module?  I haven't been able to discover a way to do this via the internet or within the Lightroom application.

     

    Thanks!

     
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  • Victoria Bampton
    5,302 posts
    Apr 1, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2012 11:51 AM   in reply to Mussels Marinara

    Zooming in and out will usually do the trick.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2012 3:03 PM   in reply to Victoria Bampton

    You can also select multiple images in the Library module and use the toolbar Library> Previews> Render 1:1 Previews. When I finish working in the Develop module I select all images (CTRL + A) and 'Render 1:1 Previews,' even if some images haven't be edited yet. Only the images you worked on or changed will get new 1:1 previews created. This keeps your previews current and helps to avoid delays when reviewing images later in the Library module.

     
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