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Steve836
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MTS compatibility - PAL & NTSC

Apr 26, 2012 11:46 AM

Hi,

 

I've edited MTS footage, which was recorded on a PAL camcorder, in Premiere CS4. I will use Adobe Media Encoder to create NTSC m2v and ac3 files and then burn a DVD in Encore.

 

Will this DVD be playable on US DVD players, please?

 

Thanks for your help,

Steve

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 8:42 PM   in reply to Steve836

    It will.

     

    Though it may not look all that good.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2012 5:58 AM   in reply to Steve836

    Please don't double-post.  I deleted your duplicate topic.

     

    Jeff

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2012 9:57 AM   in reply to Steve836

    The problem with 2 threads dealing with the same subject is that most likely someone will answer in one and not the other.  If you get 2 or more helpful people answering in different topics, then it becomes a mess really quickly.

     

    If you like, I can move this to the Pr forum.  But your answer only partially lies in Pr -- you'll need 3rd-party tools to do the job even halfway decently.  It'll be a costly process, either in time or money. 

     

    Money: DVFilm Atlantis for Windows Pal to Ntsc and Ntsc to Pal Conversion of HD and SD files

    Time: A nifty little AviSynth filter called dv2film.  Although its primary function is converting 29.97 fps NTSC video into 24 fps video to give the video a film-type look, it also does NTSC <--> PAL conversions.  And the final quality is noticeably better than than the Atlantis output; at least it was a couple of years ago.  I don't know if Atlantis has gotten any better since then.  If you're not already familiar with AviSynth and how to create and use its scripts, then you'll need some instruction.  I have 2 tutorials on my web site that can help you get started: The Essential Open-Source Toolkit and dv2Film - Giving Your Video a Film Look If you decide to watch the dv2Film tutorial, then be aware that although the method details don't seem to apply, the general method itself does.  Towards the end, I mention the NTSC <--> PAL thing, and Dan's filter has documentation on how to set up the conversion.

     

    Typically in the past, most people to whom I've given this information have given up and just created an NTSC DVD from NTSC footage, because most PAL DVD players will play NTSC discs.  But you seem serious about this, and if I understand correctly there is no NTSC footage available, so there ya go.

     

    Or you can just do the conversion in Pr, but as Jim hinted, you're not going to like the results.

     

    Jeff

     

    EDIT: It's not just the frame rate that's the problem -- the frame size is an issue, too.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2012 10:54 AM   in reply to Steve836

    is that a remote chance or pretty much guaranteed?

     

    I guess that depends on your tolerance for quality.  The PAL sourced videos I've converted to NTSC for viewing on my TV do seem a bit "off".  Not quite as sharp or smooth as genuine NTSC sourced content.  But that's to be expected, I guess, given the resolution and frame rate conversions necessary.

     

     

    Do you have any suggestions for a solution?

     

    Yeah - don't convert.  If you need NTSC, shoot it that way.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 30, 2012 7:58 AM   in reply to Steve836

    I've used Atlantis for years now, and Jeff is perfectly correct when he says that AviSynth is just - better.

    It's worth taking the trouble to learn how to use it and there are some helpful films on Jeff's website here

    Atlantis can do the job, don't get me wrong, but there is no real "one size fits all" preset so you're still looking at a learning curve.

     

    The only way to check footage that has been converted is on a glass monitor. Anything else will not show up any field order problems that may be there.

    We've also used Atlantis on commercial projects (and not had any complaints) but there are better tools. One that immediately comes to mind if you want to spend is Canopus ProCoder, or it's big Brother Carbon Coder - both are the same engine, but Carbon Coder has more options.

     

    Another possible way around the problem might be to convert the PAL to 720x480 24p, and use this for your NTSC DVD source, as players that can upscale will handle this with ease, and players that will not will pull to NTSC anyway. The Adobe Media Encoder does a good job of these (24p to DVD, not the standards conversion - although you can manage this in After Effects as well)

     

    In general, there is little you need to spend big bucks on that cannot be handled - and often with better results - in Open Source packages. With the expensive retail packages you are generally paying for the GUI and support. This may be more suited to what you need though, and I wish you luck whatever route you choose.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2012 5:59 AM   in reply to Steve836

    Hi Steve.

     

    Let's try & break this down then, as I can sometimes be a little windy.

    Atlantis usually works fine at default settings, but you are codec dependent and you will need to know how to tweak a quicktime render session to get the best from it as you do not want it spitting out cinepak AVI files by mistake, which is something that can all too easily happen with anything quicktime dependent in the way Atlantis is. When you get right down to it, it is simply a special codec and retimer that plugs into Quicktime.

    So you'll need to know what type of codec to tell quicktime to use or you may get degraded output by accident. It's not a bug in the software, just the way Quicktime defaults. The plus side is that once you done this once, you can simply use the "use previous settings" option that Quicktime adds at this point.

    Your next problems will come when you cannot get a good transcode with the stock settings - so you'll need to learn how to tweak it. Their support is excellent though as I can personally attest. If you're in a hurry, Atlantis is the way forward..

     

    I'm getting lost in the next bit though. For an NTSC DVD, you simply have to go 720x480 - there is no real other choice (unless we want to get picky & look at MPEG-1 but frankly who cares?). If it is DVD you are making, then you need to tell Atlantis to output NTSC DV or, if you have the Aja codecs installed you might want to try their 10-bit 2VUY mode. Outstanding quality - obscene file sizes though. You would use H264 for the Blu-Ray, but if outputting in the AME you need to tell it it is for Blu-Ray, so that it turns on the right bits you need to make it BD compliant. H264 is totally unsuited to DVD though. The basic rule of thumb to follow when transcoding any files is to try & avoid any data loss that will create quality loss - perceptual encoding. You simplu must use DV at the very least - this is far from ideal (I prefer to use 10-bit files) but you must avoid lossy transcodes as you will still have to use a lossy transcode when you build the final DVD.

     

    I'd advise going from 25 to 24 unless you are prepared to do some awful things to your audio, or else hit the books once more to learn how to compromise either the video or the audio. It's usually sped up, or else every 25th frame gets dropped. Best way to do all of these in software is to take the small amount of time required to learn how to run the scripts in AviSynth, it really is. THese tools use lossless codecs like Lagarith (open source codec, works beautifully) and some well tuned code.

    Check the links in Jeff's post above for the tools & the tutorials - it costs you nothing except the time to learn how to do it!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2012 7:29 AM   in reply to Steve836

    Steve - this is my fault and I am sorry.

    I must admit it was just that when you said you has PAL footage to turn into an NTSC DVD - andI am in the wrong here - I just kinda assumed you has SD PAL footage, and not HD. I simply did not consider that you might also be downrezzing as well.

    Again, Jeff has tutorials for doing this with AviSynth.

    Also, Atlantis can do this too - but I do not know how good it is at doing it.

     

    Avoid H264. Seriously, do not go there.

    If space is tight, try going straight to NTSC DV Widescreen, and crank quality to the max, tick the frame blending box, tick the max quality box, tick maximum render quality box & use a 10-bit lossless codec if you have one installed or else Lagarith AVI - available for free.

     
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