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Nicolas Franck DET
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Lightroom 4.x Book size

Mar 25, 2012 3:10 AM

Tags: #lr4_wish_list

Hello,

 

  I wish to use LR 4.0 to produce book. In Europa, we are using, most of the time standart DIN A3, A4, A5 und so on as print format. We do also have some square book. Unfortunatly, none of the one provided by LR 4.0 book module can be printed here, in germany.

  Have a look here (in German but easy to understand) : http://www.1buch.de/buchformate/

 

  Could Adobe support as well some more book size ?

 

  Would it be possible to add my own margin ? Indeed, some printer requires custom margin for cutting,

 

  I wish to see this feature in the upcoming 4.x update. Unless, book module is unusable... because I can not print!

 

  Have a nice day

  Nico

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 2, 2012 2:41 PM   in reply to Nicolas Franck DET

    I support your request. It is not possible to make photo books if you have only american sizes or sizes for Blurb service. Please Adobe, free the possibility to make custom sizes in Book Module!!!

     
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    Apr 18, 2012 2:20 AM   in reply to Gabriel Mariaca

    I find it extremly remarkable that a company such as Adobe is siding with one supplier and gets away with it. There is nothing wrong with the Blurb Adobe service but there's got to be away for other suppliers to link in to LR4 and let users customzie their own formats.

     
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    Apr 18, 2012 7:13 AM   in reply to Nicolas Franck DET

    Indeed ... I really think Adobe has failed miserably with the Book modue from the very start ... It's not just a problem for users in Europe ... we in the US that wish to print books with vendors other than Blurb are in the same boat. I whole heartedly agree that the way they are implementing the book module is way off the mark for a company with the software development capabilities and resources that Adobe has.

     

    It has been mentioned here and elsewhere by Adobe that there will be a method to create custom page sizes and templates "in the future" though it is anyone's guess when that will be ... but the sticking point is you have to create the templates outside of Lr with another application .... very absurd if you ask me ... even if it is with a free app, why place so much burden on the user to have a "custom" featue ... I don't buy software to make more work, I buy sollutions that will simplify my workflow ...

     

    Then add to that, many of the best and most used vendors in the US do not accept PDF files when ordering wedding albums or portrait books ... and again in all it's wisdom ... Adobe has chosen not offer the ability to export book pages or spreads as jpegs ... it just boggles the mind why they think the module is an asset and not just more work for the user to take advantage of the module.

     

    Conversely, if you look at Aperture 3 (unfortunately only available for Mac OS X) they have had custom page sizes, fluid templates and the ability to export in PDF, TIFF, or jpeg ... since 2010. I mean when something like what A3 offers is right there for scrutiny, I expected Adobe to match features, offer more flexibility and generally do it better. Especially considering their history with PageMaker and InDesign. (No, I was not expecting Adobe to throw in ID with Lr for free ... just wasn't expecting such a contrained option) Seems what we got instead, was a single-vendor subsidized quick-fix half-measure just so the marketing department could add another feature to the list for Lr .... VERY disappointing

     
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    Apr 18, 2012 8:16 AM   in reply to Nicolas Franck DET

    I agree that the book tool within LR is just quick and dirty. I never would use it. I think Blurb is a pretty good print service. I published several books through Blurb with b&w pictures, but then I simply installed their native and free software and I dont need an integration in LR. On the other hand, if I want to publish in a European standard DIN format I use the open source DTP Scribus to produce a PDF-X3 file (I don't have the money to afford more Adobe products, Photoshop is enough... !!).

     

    In any case, I don't need a book making tool within LR.....

     
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    Apr 29, 2012 9:23 AM   in reply to stbruehl

    I was looking for some indication that the book module would be useful  to people outside the US and found this thread, which confirmed my first impression that it is not useful at all. Luckily, it is possible to remove Book from the module bar, so there needn't be a constant reminder

     
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    Apr 29, 2012 10:51 AM   in reply to Butch_M

    Butch_M wrote:

     

    ...

    It has been mentioned here and elsewhere by Adobe that there will be a method to create custom page sizes and templates "in the future" though it is anyone's guess when that will be ... but the sticking point is you have to create the templates outside of Lr with another application .... very absurd if you ask me ... even if it is with a free app, why place so much burden on the user to have a "custom" featue ... I don't buy software to make more work, I buy sollutions that will simplify my workflow ...

     

    During LR4beta it was said that "this future" of creating custom-size templates would be very soon: as long as it would take to write down the instructions.

    But that obviously still has not happened.

    Or maybe they detected more bugs inside this.

    I have asked over at the SDK-forum when this info would be available, but did not get any answer.

     

    So yes, my overall conclusion is the same as for many other people: just throw this useless *feature* away.

     

    Your overall workflow is far better supported if you create a publish service to hard disk as jpg, for input into the proprietary software(s) of your chosen printing agency/agencies.

     

    Cornelia

     
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    Apr 29, 2012 12:41 PM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    Adobe is walking a tightrope and doing a balancing act by providing page layout capability in LR. I had already started my first Blurb book using InDesign CS5 and Blurb's InDesign PDF to Book plugin before LR4 was announced. By comparison LR4's book layout and formatting tools provide the bare minimum to do even a Blurb book.

     

    This was probably done on purpose until Adobe marketing can determine how to provide more capability without losing sales of InDesign, or worse yet the full Creative Suites. Think about it. If Adobe put much of InDesign's page layout capability into LR, then many people would no longer need InDesign. Where does Adobe "draw the line?"

     

    Possible Solution:

     

    Adobe can provide print houses with tools to create LR templates for their specific book products. I would guess that most digital print houses would welcome the opportunity to gain more business. Adobe can also offer to do the templates for a one-time service charge. This would also insure LR users have fewer problems when submitting their book layouts to the print house.

     
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    Apr 29, 2012 1:05 PM   in reply to trshaner

    Hi trshaner,

     

    I do not follow your market evaluation: the price of InDesign is simply way too high for a large number of people (at least in Europe) - so a good design of the book module would hardly cannibalize on those sales, in my opinion. Especially as wedding photographers rarely do much text.

     

    It would give an alternative to using the free proprietary softwares of printing agencies, thus liberating users to order one book from several vendors without redesigning it again. Or deal with one set of limitations of one vendor, and another of another vendor, always re-learning how to use each version.

     

    Such liberation would be very very welcome !

     

    Your possible solution is none for people like me who want more flexibility in templates, not being subject to current tastes and fashions of print houses.

    Even my taste varies depending on subject of the book.

    I want freedom to create my own templates.

    And an unconvoluted workflow.

     

    Cornelia

     
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    Apr 29, 2012 4:50 PM   in reply to Cornelia-I

    I agree with you totally concerning providing more template options and layout flexibility. I am fairly certain that Adobe will provide this capability as LR4 evolves.

     

    What I was referring to are the "layout settings" that differ from printer to printer, such as margins, slug, bleed, and the many other settings that are available inside a full-feature layout program like InDesign. The average LR user does not want to learn the "nuts & bolts" of a page layout program. Also keep in mind that LR does not support CMYK, spot colors, and the many other requirements of a typical offset print workflow.

     

    So yes I agree with you on Adobe providing more templates and layout flexibility, but with output targeted to specific book print house specifications. If Adobe can also create a "generic" output model that more experienced users can "customize" (at their own risk) for general offset printing, that would be great. For right now that will require Illustrator, which is also quite expensive.

     
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    Apr 29, 2012 5:23 PM   in reply to trshaner

    trshaner wrote:

     

    This was probably done on purpose until Adobe marketing can determine how to provide more capability without losing sales of InDesign, or worse yet the full Creative Suites. Think about it. If Adobe put much of InDesign's page layout capability into LR, then many people would no longer need InDesign. Where does Adobe "draw the line?"

     

    Pure poppycock ... if that were the case, the marketing/sales department would have never allowed Lightroom to ever see the light of day as Lr has lessened the degree that folks "need" Photoshop since it's very first beta 1 version ... with each versioin introduction there are features added, that when discussed prior to their inclusion ... many folks claimed right here in this forum that it would never happen due to the result of having such features in Lr would have a negative impact on Ps sales ... yet the features are here ... and more on the way ...

     

    Cornelia is correct ... of those who are inclined to create photo books now with Lr ... few will NEVER chip in the cash to use InDesign instead.

     

    I've been using InDesign since v1.x (QuarkExpress for nearly a decade befor that) ... It is an awesome app ... but it is indeed much more horsepower than is needed for most photobook/wedding album layout, many of which use little to no text, which is where ID really shines.

     

    All Adobe has to do to make me more comfortable about my future with Lightroom as my central worflow option, is one of two things ... either allow ID to recognize RAW files so there isn't the need to create so many derivative files to use in the layout design process ... or just simply allow the user to set a page size from within Lr on the fly ... Aperture 3 did it ... as far back as 2010 ... without using a secondary app or some secret mumbo jumbo method to get there ...

     

    No other module in Lr is vendor specific ... I just can't figure out why the Blub module had to be so ... err ... I mean Book module ....

     
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    Apr 29, 2012 5:19 PM   in reply to trshaner

    trshaner wrote:

     

    What I was referring to are the "layout settings" that differ from printer to printer, such as margins, slug, bleed, and the many other settings that are available inside a full-feature layout program like InDesign. The average LR user does not want to learn the "nuts & bolts" of a page layout program. Also keep in mind that LR does not support CMYK, spot colors, and the many other requirements of a typical offset print workflow.

     

    That's the whole point, most folks creating wedding albums and photo books don't really need that in-depth functionality ... most of the wedding/portrait studios I am aware of have been using Ps, and java based proprietary apps for book/album design ... All in RGB ... never once using CMYK along the way ...

     

    Sure ID brings much to the table in that respect ... but as I indicated earlier ... so much of that is overkill for many users ...

     

    I for one am not really all that willing to wait years or more for the Book module to "evolve" ... it should have had the ability to customize page sizes from Day One. Period.

     
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    Apr 30, 2012 6:04 AM   in reply to Butch_M

    All very good points. As of today there are 1,289 'Book Module' posts at the Photoshop Family feature request site. I'm sure Adobe is listening – it wouldn't hurt to add your own input.

     

    http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/searches?query=Book+mod ule&style=topics&x=11&y=1

     

    There is currently a large amount of cross-over in editing capability between Creative Suite apps,such as vector in PS, raster in Illustrator, and both in InDesign. I would also love to see the ability to place LR processed raw files with metadata and develop settings inside InDesign.

     
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    Apr 30, 2012 7:40 AM   in reply to trshaner

    Thanks for the link ... But if you check.  ...you will see that I have been a regular contributor about the Book module over at the feedback site ... Long before the introduction of Lr 4 ... Which makes the Blurb module all the more disappointing ...

     
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    Apr 30, 2012 9:13 AM   in reply to Butch_M

    I can see that you've provided a lot of feedback and advice at the feature request site. Adobe has added JPEG output to the Book module in LR4.1 RC2, and with color profile and sharpening options. One LR feature request I posted was officially 'Implemented' in LR4 by Adobe, despite claims by some LR users it wasn't needed. So they are listening:

     

    http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/white_balance_ey edropper_tool_option

     

    Adobe also added the new chromatic aberration "defringe tools' in LR4.1 RC2, which was a welcome surprise. Maybe they'll surprise us with more additions to the Book module in the final LR 4.1 release.

     
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    Apr 30, 2012 9:28 AM   in reply to trshaner

    True ... if there are enough squeaky wheels complaining after the fact ... they do seem to respond ... what is troubling and disconcerting is that many of us have offered input prior to the introduction of the book module and were sumarily ignored ... and don't get me started on the woefully inadiquate Slideshow module that has languished in obsurity for at least three versions ...

     

    Now I am not discounting advances elsewhere ... but I am having difficulty in figuring out just exactly why the Library/Develop modules is such a forward thinking process ... and the balance of the modules appear as an afterthought in the effort ...

     

    Also ... if you look over at the feedback forum ... I thanked the team for the inclusion of jpeg export ... but actually, without the ability to create custom page sizes, that inclusion is only an exercise in futility ... If I can't export my book pages at the proper sizes for the vendors I choose to use, there is no need to use the module for that process, regarless of the output options ... sort of defeats the whole purpose ...

     
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