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New to Red and Premiere Please help!

May 1, 2012 8:39 PM

So my company had the bright idea of purchasing a red epic and moving in to the 4k 5k world.. Since then my life has been a great headache. first we discovered that Apple was discontinuing FCP7 and there would be no support for R3D and 5k. So immediately the hunt was on for a new editing workstation. From everything I gathered online, Premiere cs5.5 seemed to be the answer. I watched videos of people bragging about how seamless their experiences have been editing raw 4k R3Ds in Premiere. After much reading I came to the conclusion that I would need to get a Red Rocket card for what they advertised as giving you realtime full quality 4k debayer and playback. So I throw down 5000 dollars on this piece of **** card only to discover the grim truth that it really only performs at about half the level of what was promised. after stomaching the 5K$$ I was expecting to open up premiere and begin my magical 4k experience. I was sickened when I noticed I could hardly get 5k to playback at 1/4 res without dropping frames.. and editing? forget about it.. nothing but dropped frames and red bars in the timeline.. So after further searching I find out that Adobe premiere doesnt work worth a damn unless you use " The GPU acceleration" function.. and of course my video card is not supported.. So after throwing a fit I coughed up another 1000 dollars on another crappy card (NVIDIA Quadro 4000) that once again is performing at about half or less of what was advertised by all the videos I watched from the Adobe website. Dont get me wrong, there was a bit of improvement..Now, I can get playback in my browser and timeline but it only works about a 3rd of the time. most of the time when I hit play it just freezes and does nothing. This happens a lot when I'm auditioning clips in the browser (excuse my FCP jargon). I select a clip in the bin , it comes up in the browser. I select the next clip in the bin, nothing happens.. the previous clip is stuck in the browser frozen on a frame  and wont playback. I have to close out of the browser completely to get it to go back to normal. Same thing is happening in timeline sequences.. half the time when I hit play, nothing happens it just sits there frozen and I have to close the sequence and reopen it to get it to playback again. Similar problems with ordinary 720 DVCPROHD footage.. I select to preview from the bin and all I get is a black screen in the browser. After exiting out and back in, it works again for a couple of clips then black again..I I try doing a little MB colorista color correction to a 3k R3d in the timeline. I adjust the blacks while looking at the canvas... nothing. I reduce saturation... nothing. I go back down to the timeline and move the playhead around to wake it up. about 5 seconds later I see my color correction changes. uuugghhh... the debayering is slow as hell and the GPU acceleration is slow as hell. I spent the past 2 weeks emailing back and forth with red and there conclusion was that there is nothing wrong with my RED ROCKET card and it must be a hard drive issue. Well I'm on a fibre card and Raid with lightning read and write speeds that I tested myself so I know this is crap. What else makes me sick is that I'm on the hottest mac that Apple sold last year. a dual 6 core with 32gigs of Ram! How many more thousands of dollars do I have to spend to get back to a comfortable editing experience like I had with 1080 video in FCP7? Yes GPU acceleration is turned on. Yes Im set for performance and have allocated 29G of Ram to the premiere processor. I mean how much more juice does it need for God's sakes??? Am I the only one having this expensive *** nightmare?

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 1, 2012 9:23 PM   in reply to elliot2012

    I have read about Macs having a lot of problems. I suggest you return the Red Rocket card and your crappy computer and get an awesome $800.00 PC with a cheap $85.00 Nvidia GT 440 Graphics card. That is my honest advise. Below is my system using PP CS 4.0. I get even more realtime with PP CS 5.5.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY33kyQ52hg

     
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    May 1, 2012 9:51 PM   in reply to elliot2012

    How many more thousands of dollars do I have to spend to get back to a comfortable editing experience like I had with 1080 video in FCP7?

     

    I think about $2,500 for a new PC would do it.  If you return the RED Rocket, that still leaves you enough left over for the CS6 upgrade and a decent vacation to clear your head and have some fun before you return to editing.

     
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    May 1, 2012 10:10 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Despite the windows enthusiasts' suggestions to switch machines/OS, there is nothing wrong with a solid mac.  PPro is designed to run on both mac & win.  Let's dispel this myth right now, thank you.  Is it completely equivalent?  Of course not.  The threading, the memory model, i/o, everything runs different. But we've put a hell of a lot of effort in delivering the same editing experience, irregardless of the OS.  Is it relatively more expensive than what I can cobble together?  Sure, but that's not the point.  People buy macs for the same reasons people buy high end HP machines, etc - it works out of the box & you don't have to tinker with it.  (And don't get me wrong, I'm an overclocking geek @ home, I always build my home rigs...  but you pay the price sometimes in troubleshooting random blue screens, etc.)

     

    To the OP:  I think you need to unravel the complexity.  You should also be able to get 4K RED files playing back @ 1/4 res without a Rocket - the only thing the Rocket brings to the table is realtime debayering @ full res.  There's plenty of people editing 4K footage on macbooks @ 1/4 res...

     

    If you're having problems with DVCPRO HD, then start there. I'd suggest pulling the Rocket & figure out why DVCPRO isn't playing back correctly.  If you're just loading clips into the source monitor, it should be really fast - period.  If not, usually that's a sign that there's something wrong with either the video drivers or audio drivers. 

     

    Btw, is there anything you're leaving out about the system?  Possibly a 3rd party i/o card, a la BMD/AJA/Matrox? 

     
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    May 2, 2012 1:42 PM   in reply to elliot2012

    I was going to suggest disk i/o next as well - try a local drive, or better yet, a RAID 0 pair.  If it was a video/audio driver issue, you'd be hosed on the first attempt, it wouldn't strike you intermittently like this.

     

    Cheers

     
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    May 2, 2012 1:59 PM   in reply to Wil Renczes

    To provide a little balance to the thread inital posters, I can edit 4K .R3D files with ease on my system below at 1/2 res.  (which is really 2K images). No rendering is necessary. Using the "Source" menu I can do color correction similar to Red Cine X and still play back in real time. You need to do a little detective work to see why the Mercury Playback Engine isnt happy with your setup. 

     

    Tom Daigon

    Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor

    www.hdshotsandcuts.com

    Mac Pro 3,1

    2 x 3.2 ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon

    10.7.3

    Nvidia Quadro 4000

    24 gigs ram

    Kona 3

    Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid

     

    I believe there are special drivers needed to work with Epic files in Premiere that are free.

     

    http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/redepic_importer/

     
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    May 2, 2012 2:03 PM   in reply to lasvideo

    One thought that just occurred to me - maybe it is related to the audio device.  You might want to try this out:

     

    http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/kb/playback-stops-loops-soundbooth -premiere.html

     
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    May 2, 2012 2:41 PM   in reply to elliot2012

    OK try this.

     

    Start a brand new project.

     

    Import 1 red file.

     

    Create sequence from clip.

     

    (Your are playing back from a fast raid array right?)

     

    Playback timeline and see if anything has changed.

     

    Then we have a point of comparison.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 5:51 PM   in reply to elliot2012

    Did you activate the RED Rocket card in Premiere?  You have to right click on a R3D in a bin and select "source settings.."  This will open the R3D RAW menu where you can adjust all the RAW settings.  At the bottom you have to enable "use RED Rocket".

     
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    May 2, 2012 7:20 PM   in reply to mtiffee

    He should be able to operate normally even without the Red Rocket. Something needs tweaking in his system.

     
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