Adobe Community: Clarity slider unveils weird purple blue... stuff... on outside of moon

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Clarity slider unveils weird purple blue... stuff... on outside of moon

Apr 26, 2012 9:34 PM

I have taken many shots of crescent moons and edited them in Lr3 and Lr4. In the Lr4 beta - I cranked up the clarity slider to about 100 and loved the results.

tonight I shot about 6 photos of the crescent moon and once I began to view in Lr4.1 RC2 - there a purple fringe around the moon and as the clarity slider increases from 32 to in the 70's - there appears very odd purple/blue... (artifacts?) to the right side - not 'on' the moon's surface but just outside of it.

Never had this happen...

Attached is a shot with clarity at 100 and (well I seem to be only able to upload one photo) another at 10. Other than lens corrections enabled for my 70-300L (auto for profile) - there are no other edits

I can submit any further info required

3506 Views 33 Replies Latest reply: trshaner, Sep 17, 2012 12:34 PM

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1. Immaculens,

Apr 26, 2012 10:49 PM in reply to Immaculens

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Same image but using Process 2010 - clarity 100

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2. Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață,

Apr 27, 2012 12:16 AM in reply to Immaculens

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Did you adjust the new Defringe control?

Can you share a raw file?

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3. Rikk Flohr,

Apr 27, 2012 6:29 AM in reply to Immaculens

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The new clarity is a lot stronger so you aren't comparing apples-to-apples. A value of 50 in new Clarity (PV2012) is approximately equal to 100 in PV 2010. If you dial your image back to 50 (PV2012) do they match? Does the purple disappear?

What happens if you kick your NR up?
What happens if you turn your Masking in the Sharpening up?

All of these things should affect the image in the area you are concerned about.

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4. Immaculens,

Apr 27, 2012 4:27 PM in reply to Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

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The new defringe was at its default settings.

I later adjusted the photo with that new tool and got rid of the purples and blues but the very strange artifacts were still there.

Again - this artifacting with the moon has 'never' happened before - its occurring on the edge just outside of the moon - not neccesarily on the moon itself although its also possible.

As mentioned - with Lr4 beta - I had Clarity cranked up to 90 or 100 and it showed absolutely no hint of the artifacting as it does with last nights shots....

Where would I upload a 26mb Raw file for your examination?

Rick Flohr wrote:
"If you dial your image back to 50 (PV2012) do they match? Does the purple disappear?

What happens if you kick your NR up?
What happens if you turn your Masking in the Sharpening up?"

I get the weird artifacts on the bottom and right side witht he Clarity slider beginning at 30 and obvious at 44

If I kick my NR up then I love detail and the artifacting remains but not as clear. I don't use Masking.

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5. Rob Cole,

Apr 27, 2012 4:42 PM in reply to Immaculens

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RC2 induced a bug in clarity, evident when there are large black patches like this.

Adobe has not yet acknowleged it, which makes me nervous:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom_4_1rc2 _very_strange_behaviour_of_clarity_for_a_specific_image

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6. Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață,

Apr 28, 2012 1:18 PM in reply to Immaculens

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Where would I upload a 26mb Raw file for your examination?
YouSendIt.com
Mediafire.com
Hotfile.com

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7. Ray8868,

May 1, 2012 12:04 PM in reply to Immaculens

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Hello all,

Same issue here,

High contrast photo, clarity all the way to 100 and as mentioned in the original post: lens correction ON (only this is for a Sigma 17-70 OS)

Two examples, first file 4.1 RC2 second file 4.1 RC. It's either the lens correction or the clarity, either way the issue should be addressed.

4.1 RC2:
4.1 RC:

What's going on here, Adobe, please fix this in the final release!

Ray

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8. Immaculens,

May 1, 2012 12:15 PM in reply to Ray8868

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INTERESTING! your point about the lens corrections made me go back and turn Lens Corrections "OFF"

and Voila - my moon no longer has the weird artifacting - even with 'Clarity' slider at 100!

On the whole, I'm glad its not the Clarity slider - the lens corrections 'may' not be as crucial for my situations.

Thanks!

Addition: actually turning off lens corrections also reduces purple fringing on my moon substancially....

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9. Rikk Flohr,

May 1, 2012 12:14 PM in reply to Ray8868

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Lens and Focal Length shot if Zoom, Fstop?
Did you try the new tool on the Color tab as well?

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10. Immaculens,

May 1, 2012 12:18 PM in reply to Rikk Flohr

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I added above "Addition: actually turning off lens corrections also reduces purple fringing on my moon substancially...."

Mine is with the 70-300mm L IS at 300mm, at every tried aperture of f/6.3. f/7.1, and f/8

turning off Lens Correction 'And' Colour/Defringing Dramatically improves my image.

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11. Ray8868,

May 1, 2012 12:19 PM in reply to Rikk Flohr

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Hi Rikk,

The photos were both exported from the same catalog using exactly the same settings. This is not shot-related but obviously a software issue.

I'm getting a bit frustrated about LR4, it seems half the price, half the quality.

I'll try to get some more info on when this particular problem occurs.

Ray

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12. Ray8868,

May 1, 2012 12:41 PM in reply to Immaculens

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Hello,

I did some research on this issue and the conclusion is that it's actually the lens correction.

Here are a few shots: @rikk: f6.3 ISO 200, 70mm, 1/400

All exported with LR4.1 RC2

Lens correction OFF, Clarity 100

Lens correction ON, Clarity 100:
Lens correction OFF, Clarity 0:
Lens correction ON, Clarity 0

Obviously the clarity slider causes a minute portion of artefacting, but the lens correction introduces the strange artefacts.
Boosting the clarity only exaggerates the problem.
NO defringing was applied here.

Switching back to RC1, which worked like a charm to me.......

Ray

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13. Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață,

May 2, 2012 3:46 AM in reply to Ray8868

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Can you share a raw file?

What are the Defringe settings in RC2?

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14. Susan S.,

May 2, 2012 3:53 AM in reply to Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

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Lots more on this issue in this thread: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/997568?tstart=0

I'm getting this sort of artifacting with clarity of more than about 20, or lightness above 70, high contrast edges and any transformation done in the lens correction tab (including having enable profile corrections ticked)

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15. trshaner,

May 2, 2012 5:32 AM in reply to Susan S.

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At the link Susan posted it's clear any of the tools in the Lens Corrections panel that affect geometry will create the artifacts. This includes Lens Profile Distortion and all of the Manual Transform tools. It may be due to do changes made to add the new Defringe tools. The Angle tool in the Crop panel does not have this issue.

For now you can prevent this from occurring by changing your Lens Profile default setting to Distortion = 0 and leave all Transform controls = 0. If you need to rotate the image use the Crop tool's Angle adjustment.

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16. bcw99,

May 2, 2012 8:54 AM in reply to Immaculens

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Looking at this thread, people seem to be complaining that the clarity in LR4 behaves differently to the old one in LR3? That pushing it to the max gives different results? Well, LR4 calrity IS different, that's the point isn't it?

Also, setting almost any slider to max in isolation is going to lead to odd things. The whole point of Lightroom is to use all the available tools together, in balance, to achieve a result. Push up clarity but bring down shadow or exposure or whatever. Then you may need to adjust highlights or while level. All are interdependant.

Using clarity wrongly is just as bad as using Sharpness wrongly. Too extreme a setting and it will look awful.

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17. LRuser24,

May 2, 2012 9:20 AM in reply to bcw99

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bcw99 wrote:

Looking at this thread, people seem to be complaining that the clarity in LR4 behaves differently to the old one in LR3? That pushing it to the max gives different results? Well, LR4 calrity IS different, that's the point isn't it?
No, that is not the point here - not at all. Nobody complains about clarity per se. The problem is that at relatively large clarity settings, artefacts appear if the image is warped by manual or profile lens corrections. That is the real problem here. And it is probably also the cause of the problems with the moon picture in the first post.

And it has nothing to do with over-doing clarity because the artefacts can be clearly seen even at moderate, perfectly "normal" settings of clarity. Setting slider to maximum is only done for demonstration purposes.

And the same applies to the other thread that was mentioned: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/997568?tstart=0

The effects observed here and in the other thread are clearly caused by a bug that has to be fixed and have nothing to do with liking or disliking the new clarity.

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18. bcw99,

May 2, 2012 11:25 AM in reply to LRuser24

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OK, I was thinking of several other adobe forums where people are moaning about clarity and they are the ones my comments are relevant.

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19. Rikk Flohr,

May 2, 2012 11:51 AM in reply to LRuser24

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Curious: http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2012/05/adobe-camera-raw-6-7-a nd-dng-convertor-6-7-now-available-on-adobe-com.html

Has anyone tried the final release of 6.7 to see if artifacts still appear?

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20. Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață,

May 2, 2012 11:53 AM in reply to Rikk Flohr

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Yes, it does.

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21. Rikk Flohr,

May 2, 2012 12:01 PM in reply to Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

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So, To CLARIFY: opening an image in Photoshop CS5.x with 6.7 ACR Final and setting the Clarity, et al, to the same as the Lightroom 4.1 RC2 settings produces the same distoritions in PS?

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22. LRuser24,

May 2, 2012 12:29 PM in reply to Rikk Flohr

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Rikk Flohr wrote:

So, To CLARIFY: opening an image in Photoshop CS5.x with 6.7 ACR Final and setting the Clarity, et al, to the same as the Lightroom 4.1 RC2 settings produces the same distoritions in PS?
Yes, it does, provided ACR is switched to PV2012. The same happens when Lightroom's "Edit in PS" is used.

Edit: Screenshot with the same CR2 I used in the other thread, directly opened in Photoshop Camera Raw, no Lightroom was involved at any time:

Lens corrections are set to "Auto", detecting the Canon EF-S 10-22mm. Artefacts show on the right side or the upper trunks of the two trees in the foreground, more pronounced on the rear one.

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23. Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață,

May 2, 2012 12:25 PM in reply to Rikk Flohr

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Couldn't find a better example.

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24. Rikk Flohr,

May 2, 2012 12:27 PM in reply to Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

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Thanks for the update and the clarification

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25. ssprengel,

May 2, 2012 12:47 PM in reply to Rikk Flohr

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It appears that Clarity is reading the pre-distortion-fix version of the pixels when computing the boundaries of its adjustments, but the adjustments are being applied to the post-distortion-fix version of the pixels. Hopefully there will be an ACR 6.71 released.

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26. Mollysnoot,

May 2, 2012 12:56 PM in reply to ssprengel

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ssprengel wrote:

Hopefully there will be an ACR 6.71 released.
I hope there will be too. Most dissapointing.

M

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27. Immaculens,

May 2, 2012 3:28 PM in reply to Immaculens

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I wish I could change the title of this thread to better reflect that its actually the "Lens Corrections" Panel that is 'most or all' of the issue.

Also - I guess I will not mark this thread "Answered" until I at least know that Adobe has acknowledged this issue.

I've not read any of the links in this thread - but thank-you to everyone who has helped in this thread.
Except the guy who tried educating us all about the new Clarity slider and how we were complaining about it. Someone replied to that far more charitably that I would have...

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28. LRuser24,

May 2, 2012 4:12 PM in reply to Immaculens

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Immaculens wrote:

... Also - I guess I will not mark this thread "Answered" until I at least know that Adobe has acknowledged this issue.

FYI: I "bundled" this and the other thread into a problem in the feedback forum, and Adobe already acknowledged it: http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom_4_1_rc 2_artefacts_when_using_shadows_clarity_and_image_warp_lens_corrections

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29. Glyptodon,

May 29, 2012 1:09 AM in reply to ssprengel

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There is already, it's called Adobe Camera Raw 7.0, and you can buy this upgrade (and the next ones) for a few hundred bucks.
Thank you Adobe \o/

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30. LRuser24,

May 29, 2012 2:40 AM in reply to Glyptodon

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ShotshotRu wrote:

There is already, it's called Adobe Camera Raw 7.0, and you can buy this upgrade (and the next ones) for a few hundred bucks.
Thank you Adobe \o/
Note: ACR 7.0 is actually a little behind ACR 6.7 feature-wise, and ACR 7.1 RC has exactly the same bug as LR 4.1RC2 and ACR 6.7. But your statement will probably become true for ACR 7.1 final

P.S. At first, I didn't understand your post... when replying to older posts, it's probably best to include a quote (otherwise one has to click on the "in reply to ssprengel" to find out to which post you replied).

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31. Brendan Stewart,

Sep 17, 2012 11:53 AM in reply to LRuser24

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Same issue here,

Windows 7, 64bit.
PS CS5.1
LR 4.1 RC2

Editing in PS CS5 using 16bit. My clarity slider is nowhere near 100% and this issue is still occuring.

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32. Immaculens,

Sep 17, 2012 12:04 PM in reply to Brendan Stewart

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Yep, I still notice the same issue - the Clarity slider "creates" artifacts - most noticeable on the perifery/edge of the moon shots.

Compared to when Lr4.0 final and succesive versions have come out - I'd say the artifacts have been reduced by about 40% - but I'm still talking about a lot of artifacts still present. If I recall Lr4 beta correctly - I remember cranking clarity up to 100% and the result was an astounding "Whoa! Bravo Lightroom Team!", I mean it made for incredible moon details...

Then they introduced defringing, and the honeymoon was over...

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33. trshaner,

Sep 17, 2012 12:34 PM in reply to Immaculens

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This was partially fixed in the final LR4.1 release:

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=5393

From the below link:

LRuser24 4 months ago
LR 4.1 final and ACR 7.1 final: The "thick" artefacts when using lens corrections are gone, but the "thin" variant shown in my post above are still there. Note: The artefacts still change shape when changing lens correction parameters, but they always stay "thin".

I am slightly disappointed. However, the "thin" variant is probably visible only in 100% view on monitor. I am not sure whether it is visible in normal cases, e.g. prints.

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom_4_1_rc 2_artefacts_when_using_shadows_clarity_and_image_warp_lens_corrections

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