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Why should I pay for upgrade to CS6 twice?

May 2, 2012 6:23 AM

Dear Adobe,


I upgraded from photoshop CS3 to Photoshop CS5 last November as you said we will be not able to upgrade from CS3 to CS6 directly anymore. And now, you changed your mind and users are still able to upgrade from older versions. If I would wait couple of months like others I would pay only once. Please, would you try to explain your business strategy? How should we trust you are not going to change your mind and rules every month?

 

Thank you for your explanation.

 

Kind regards,

 

Filip Zamorsky

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 6:37 AM   in reply to Filip_Zamorsky

    Filip,

     

    You are addressing fellow users here, not Adobe.

     

    Unfortunately, there are many other users in the same situation as you. 

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    May 2, 2012 6:37 AM   in reply to Filip_Zamorsky

    You should know that this is a user forum, and that while some of us may be sympathetic, you may not be getting your message to those in charge.

     

    Probably a good rule to try to live by is to never, ever fall for marketing gimmicks designed to make you spend you money sooner than you would have if it weren't for the gimmick.  It's not often that you look back and say, "dang, I missed that sale", because invariably an even better sale follows right after.

     

    And I don't mean to be argumentative, but let me point out that at this point you HAVE gotten 5+ months use out of Photoshop CS5.  Not only did you have its advanced features to apply to your images, but it was no doubt a learning experience that will allow you to begin using Photoshop CS6 all the more quickly and adeptly.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 7:23 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I don't agree with the second part of your comment, Noel. Yes he did get to use CS5, but consider that many users are on a tight budget and the sacrifice they have to make so that they can update without paying full price may be substantial.

     

    This has the elements of "Bait and Switch", and there are laws about such practices. The honest thing for Adobe to do is if a purchase of CS5 was made after the first announcement , the upgrade to CS6 for those who did buy CS5 should then only cost the difference between upgrading CS5 and CS6, which is about $30, last time I looked.

     

    I would suggest the OP (or the moderator) move this to the CS6 thread because many Adobe employees are monitoring that thread and it may reach the folks that can do something about it faster and certainly with greater transparency than an individual complaint directly to Adobe.

     

    If it were me, I would be looking into this matter with the State AG's office.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 8:06 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Hudechrome wrote:

     

    …many users are on a tight budget and the sacrifice they have to make so that they can update without paying full price may be substantial.

     

    This has the elements of "Bait and Switch", and there are laws about such practices. The honest thing for Adobe to do is if a purchase of CS5 was made after the first announcement , the upgrade to CS6 for those who did buy CS5 should then only cost the difference between upgrading CS5 and CS6, which is about $30, last time I looked…

     

     

    If it were me, I would be looking into this matter with the State AG's office.

     

    Very well put, Hudechrome.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    May 2, 2012 8:18 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Does anyone have hard documentation saved that shows Adobe was saying, in essence, "buy now or lose the opportunity to upgrade"?  Because if not I'd say people purchasing the upgrade to Photoshop CS5.5 got what they paid for.

     

    I may look like an antagonist here, and I'm really not.  I hate shady business practices as much as the next person, but I'm just not convinced Adobe went that far in this case.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 8:46 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

    Does anyone have hard documentation saved that shows Adobe was saying, in essence, "buy now or lose the opportunity to upgrade"…

     

    Yes, plenty!

     

    This from the link in post #6:

     

    Picture 25.png

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    May 2, 2012 8:54 AM   in reply to Filip_Zamorsky

    Good link.  That looks pretty official to me.  You should grab that screen.

     

    WillNeed.jpg

     

    The wording "will need" seems pretty strong here.

     

    I take back what I said - you may well have a case for having been mislead into purchasing something by that comment.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 9:16 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I think a couple of inquiries at an official level needs to be made. Adobe may be OK, I assume their leagal eagles gave it an ok, but it wouldn't hurt to check.

     

    My opinion, in any case!

     

    Edit: Misleading probably isn't the issue as you would have to prove intent to mislead. Adobe seems to have simply changed it's mind. Nonetheless, it may be actionable.

     

    Message was edited by: Hudechrome

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 9:24 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Yes, Adobe did change its mind—after an uproar in the press and an open letter to Adobe from Scot Kelby as president of the NAPP.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 9:26 AM   in reply to station_one
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 1:15 PM   in reply to Filip_Zamorsky

    Filip_Zamorsky wrote:

     

    So, I will repeat my first question: "How should we trust Adobe is not going to change its mind and rules every month?"

     

    You cannot.

     

    Rules change and I'm sure that Adobe reserves the right to do so in its EULA.

     

    Adobe used to allow upgrading from any previous version of its software to the current version.

     

    Then 3-versions-back was introduced with CS4.

     

    Now it's current-version-only with CS6 (although this time around the impact and timing of the change caught everyone by surprise and was downright unfair - hence Adobe's later concession, following a very public outcry, for CS3 and CS4 users to upgrade before 31 Dec).

     

    They've also removed the standalone product > suite upgrade path. That will catch some people out too.

     

    Changes will keep coming.

     

    Unfortunately, this time around, you were caught in an unfortunate position of feeling forced to upgrade. So you did. Now you realize that you didn't need to. Not your fault.

     

    Take it further with Adobe or whoever if you wish but accept the fact that the rules will keep changing. It's an ongoing game of strategy between users and Adobe.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 1:40 PM   in reply to Filip_Zamorsky

    When people are unhappy, they usually vote with their feet i.e. move on, don't upgrade. Find another solution.

     

    What's currently missing is competition.

     

    There's little viable alternative to Adobe products in the current market so they've effectively got a monopoly position - and it shows.

     

    Adobe was a different beast when it had Macromedia to compete against. Now that's gone, Adobe sets the agenda and changes the commercial rules at will when it suits them, and rarely with the users as the highest priority.

     

    I actually think we're witnessing an incremental strategy of a bigger game: Adobe slowly nudging everyone towards the Creative Cloud.

     

    Once they get the Cloud right (price vs value vs features vs adoption rate), this cat-and-mouse game of strategy for upgrading perpetual licensed products may disappear.

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
    5,925 posts
    May 24, 2010
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    May 2, 2012 2:02 PM   in reply to John Waller

    John Waller wrote:

     

    When people are unhappy, they usually vote with their feet i.e. move on, don't upgrade. Find another solution.

     

    What's currently missing is competition.

     

    There's little viable alternative to Adobe products in the current market so they've effectively got a monopoly position - and it shows.

     

    Adobe was a different beast when it had Macromedia to compete against. Now that's gone, Adobe sets the agenda and changes the commercial rules at will when it suits them, and rarely with the users as the highest priority.

     

    I actually think we're witnessing an incremental strategy of a bigger game: Adobe slowly nudging everyone towards the Creative Cloud.

     

    Once they get the Cloud right (price vs value vs features vs adoption rate), this cat-and-mouse game of strategy for upgrading perpetual licensed products may disappear.

     

    It's going to cost me a fraction of the Photoshop upgrade price to upgrade Premiere Pro, although it was a similar price to Photoshop when initially bought. But there are several real alternatives to Premiere Pro for NLE, so it looks like John's point is right on, and Adobe are charging whatever they can get away with.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 2:35 PM   in reply to Trevor Dennis

    Trevor.Dennis wrote:

     

    ...It's going to cost me a fraction of the Photoshop upgrade price to upgrade Premiere Pro, although it was a similar price to Photoshop when initially bought. But there are several real alternatives to Premiere Pro for NLE, so it looks like John's point is right on, and Adobe are charging whatever they can get away with.

    John is right but there are other factors for a low priced Premiere... Adobe and Avid are trying to woo FCP users who were upset by the new direction of FCP X.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    May 2, 2012 4:50 PM   in reply to Filip_Zamorsky

    The plain and simple fact is that Adobe is in business to make money.

     

    If you are somewhat unhappy with the price, but buy it anyway, then it's priced just right.  There are a lot of factors that influence how likely you are to buy it anyway.

     

    However we look at it, Adobe has put tens of millions of dollars into the development of software we can buy for a few hundred dollars.  There is value there.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 5:18 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    So is Wall St.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 2, 2012 8:55 PM   in reply to Trevor Dennis

    Trevor.Dennis wrote:

     

    …Adobe are charging whatever they can get away with.

     

    Which applies to their overseas pricing as well. 

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 3, 2012 5:55 AM   in reply to Filip_Zamorsky

    Filip, I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just participating in two parts of the conversation.

     

    1.  In no way are misleading marketing practices okay.  It's BAD business.

     

    2.  Regarding the price, yes, they are charging what they can get in the given environment.  That's good business.

     

    However, there REALLY IS a need for good customer relations in the business world, and Adobe doesn't seem to know how to do that, at least not on the marketing side.  If a competitor should surface, all the people Adobe has upset will likely leave in a heartbeat.

     

    I don't know about you, but I prefer happy users to begrudging users.  I wonder just how many millions are lost to begrudging users who have finally gotten so fed up with questionable marketing practices such as what's being described in this thread that they started using cracked/pirated software.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 16, 2012 1:56 PM   in reply to Filip_Zamorsky

    And...Add my name to the list. I began another thread but I was told about this one. It's the same story as you all, I'm just not going to be ignored by customer service. Adobe caused the problem, Adobe should fix it.

     

    Has anybody found a magic way to get customer service help? I have been waiting since last Tuesday for my problem to be resolved and I've been getting absolutely no understanding or willingness to take ownership of my problem.  I have chatted online with 8 different people. Each time making painstaking attemts to explain the situation as being different than the "free upgrade" window that is posted on adobe.com.

    Here is the situation.

    1. Adobe said that we MUST upgrade to CS5 in order to upgrade to CS6.
    2. In February, I upgraded from CS4 to CS5 based on item 1.
    3. I went online last week to upgrade to CS6 from CS5 when I saw that I didn't have to spend the money to upgrade from CS4 to CS5 afterall.
    4. Based on that, I feel I should be able to upgrade to CS6 without having to pay an addition $199.00.
      1. Adobe said I had to upgrade so I did. That cost me $199.00 three months ago.
      2. Now Adobe wants me to spend another $199.00 to get CS6.
      3. I will not do that. I wouldn't have spent the first $199.00 if Adobe hadn't said it was necessary. It wasn't necessary afterall so I shouldn't be penalized for believing Adobe.
    5. This is like the guy who's told he has a week to live so he gives away all of his earthly belongings. Then the doctor tells him he didn't mean it. 

    Now, On Wednesday, I got my request elevated to "concern group". They will contact me within 72 hours. That must be 72 business hours because I have not been concated.

    So, Monday, I had to go through the entire scenerio for the umteenth time and again was assured the "concern group" would contact me withing 24 hours. I didn't believe the rep, based on my previous lack of contact and asked how I can contact the "concern group" myself so I don't have to go through this entire process again. The "concern group" is offline, no way to contact them but "I ASSURE YOU" you will hear from them withing 24 hours. Well, 48 hours later, I'm totally in a very hateful mood. I opened another chat session and rather than submitting that person on the other end to my venom, I just pasted my chat from Monday and said goodbye. Of couse, it's not going to do any good either.

    I saw a message board online yesterday, and today I can't find it, where people in my same situation received their upgrade to CS6 with no addition cost.

    I know it's being done but Customer service is so...aggravating that I believe it's a way to make people just give up and go away. Not this time.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 16, 2012 4:30 PM   in reply to joanns515

    I think I would like CS6 for its faster rendering, much faster I hear, but I didn't upgrade to CS5 until Feb. The info I have says that you can upgrade to CS6 free if you bought CS5 after March 26. I'm going to wait for CS7 and see if they relent.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 16, 2012 4:47 PM   in reply to Lundberg02

    I would reach out to Jeff Tranberry, jtranber@adobe.com - who is the Chief Customer Advocate, and that is indeed his job title. You could also reach out to some of the senior folks at Adobe as well. namely Shantanu Narayen snarayen@adobe.com and ask for their assistance in getting this resolved.

     

    MK

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
    5,925 posts
    May 24, 2010
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    May 16, 2012 5:06 PM   in reply to MikeKPhoto

    MikeKPhoto wrote:

     

    I would reach out to Jeff Tranberry, jtranber@adobe.com - who is the Chief Customer Advocate, and that is indeed his job title. You could also reach out to some of the senior folks at Adobe as well. namely Shantanu Narayen snarayen@adobe.com and ask for their assistance in getting this resolved.

     

    MK

     

    Jeff (along with Pierre) are the people looking after the list of CS6 FAQ threads, so I PM'd him to let him know that the Lynda.Com CS6 preview is no longer available without subscription, and that the FAQ page should be updated.  No reply as of yet, but Pierre might see this and fix it.  I wish I'd captured the video now, because I don't have a subscription at the moment.

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
    5,925 posts
    May 24, 2010
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    May 16, 2012 5:11 PM   in reply to joanns515

    joanns515 wrote:

     

     

     

    1. Now Adobe wants me to spend another $199.00 to get CS6.

     

    That will be US$199?   I have just looked at my credit card statement, and see that I paid just short of NZ$800 to upgrade from CS5 Extended to CS6 Extended!   That is close to half of the full cost.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 16, 2012 7:32 PM   in reply to Trevor Dennis

    If my conversion is correct, you paid the US equiv of just under full price!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2012 1:04 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Everybody, I got through to someone today and received the deserved free upgrade to CS6. I asked the customer service person how other people who upgraded to CS5 based on announced then reversed policy, can get their upgrade without going through all of the torturous conversations I did.

    No answer to that but how I got through this morning was to ask for a supervisor once it was clear the person on the chat board didn't understand the situation. The supervisor understood right away and within 10 minutes, I got a call and everything is resolved. I also received a call from a Senior Customer Advocate and I was able to tell her that all was well. So, don't give up

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2012 12:39 PM   in reply to joanns515

    I'm in the same situation. They have now closed my case after offering me a 20% discount. I am in the UK and just don't know how to take this further - did you make any headway?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2012 3:15 PM   in reply to Hedystafford

    Hedystafford...don't take no for an answer. Make another call. Tell them you need to speak with a "Senior Customer Advocate" They owe you a free upgrade so don't let Adobe's customer service horror deter you. 1) Adobe told people they had to upgrade to 5 in order to be able to upgrade to 6. They told us that! So those of us who did, should have the same deal as those who did not. The customer support people will do everything they can to keep you from getting to the next level. Remember, you are not asking for special treatment. You are demanding what is rightfully yours. Good luck!!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2012 11:27 PM   in reply to joanns414

    Hi there. Well I made my third attempt last night - but they simply would not put me through to anybody in a supervisory post. Yet again I have been referred to "The Next Level" who I suspect is a computer (or Big Brother or The Wizard of Oz). Last time they closed my case after offering me a 20% discount. Thank you so much for your encouragement - I will not give up. I'm absolutely furious about this!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 3:00 AM   in reply to Filip_Zamorsky

    Filip_Zamorsky wrote:

     

    If Adobe prefers to keep their users (customers) unhappy - what can we do about that?

     

    Nothing, Filip : because there's no competition. They don't care about our claims regarding pricing policy because there's no risk to lose too much customers. As an example, look at the pricing policy in the US vs. the rest of the world. We (non US customers) are paying a lot more than US users since years, without any acceptable justification (even when taking the local taxes into account). We are complaining about this unfair policy since a very long time. Even european photo magazines publishing Adobe ads have started to criticize about this. What has changed? Absolutely nothing. They don't care and they don't need to.

     

    As to the status of this forum, it's rather ambiguous. It's an official Adobe forum, maintained by Adobe. It is supposed to be a "user to user" forum but sometimes, Adobe representatives or evangelists or partners are intervening in the discussions. There is also a feedback forum that you can use to report bugs. But you never know whether a problem or a bug has been actually taken into account. A page listing all known (recognized) bugs is AFAIK not available.

     

    So since there is a chance that an Adobe representative will from time to time read our posts, I think that posting claims here is not useless, although you'll rarely see any direct reaction from Adobe (beside getting flack from some evangelist if your critics are not welcome). There will always be someone to tell you that you shouldn't but my opinion is that we should continue to do so.

     

    Individual claims sent directly to Adobe without making them public will be handled by people who are paid to convince you that you are wrong (just try to escalate a pricing policy problem individually - good luck). Their final destination is a black hole. The only (tiny) chance to make Adobe take our points into account is to repeatedly post them on public forums. However, as stated above, I don't have much hope. But this will at least make other users or potential buyers aware of these problems.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 6:02 AM   in reply to Hedystafford

    Hedystafford wrote:

     

    Hi there. Well I made my third attempt last night - but they simply would not put me through to anybody in a supervisory post. Yet again I have been referred to "The Next Level" who I suspect is a computer (or Big Brother or The Wizard of Oz). Last time they closed my case after offering me a 20% discount. Thank you so much for your encouragement - I will not give up. I'm absolutely furious about this!

    In this particular case, I sypathize with the many customers in your position who upgraded to CS5 ONLY because Adobe originally announced that an upgrade path to CS6 from earlier versions would not be available. 

     

    Have you tried the Adobe customer care Twitter account? https://twitter.com/Adobe_Care

     

    Send a tweet to @Adobe_care and see what happens.  Another user reported success in your position - see post 22 in this thread http://forums.adobe.com/message/4420706#4420706

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,514 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jul 13, 2012 6:44 AM   in reply to acresofgreen

    I don't mean to be a wet blanket, and I wish Hedy all the luck in the world getting this resolved properly, but time is marching on...  I wonder if Adobe is starting to feel that folks who upgraded last year have now been using CS5 for so long that they have now derived significant value from it, and thus are no longer justified in asking for an upgrade to the new version.  Plus don't forget they were given a discount on the CS5 license.

     

    Under scrutiny we see that the VP of Marketing's "threat" to stop upgrade pricing last year (in light of current policy) wasn't *quite* fraudulent - just very close.  Close enough to be misleading to folks not accustomed to trying to derive legal meaning from words.  If we don't assume evil intent, it was just plain stupid.

     

     


    Let me qualify this by saying I'm no legal eagle - I may be wrong and the statement may have been hugely fraudulent and illegal.


    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 16, 2012 2:21 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I think the argument about how much time has passed is beside the point. I acted on the basis of Adobe's announcement - I also posted the information on Facebook so that all my friends did not get caught out!  I then got on with my life. I have more interesting things to do than trawl Adobe's forums loooking to see if they have now changed their policy! It was only later I quite by chance came across an Amazon ad for CS6 and saw it was available to CS4 users at the upgrade price. I don't know if what Adobe has done is actually illegal or not. I certainly don't think it was deliberate. But having done their volte face - which after all was a positive response to much customer outrage - they should now make it good for the people penalised by their original intention. To not do so may not be illegal but it is certainly not ethical.

     

    I was on to Adobe for the 3rd time on 12th July - still waiting for my "reply within 72 hours".

     
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