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Blackmagic Intensity Pro Output

May 7, 2012 10:20 AM

So I thought that with CS6, pretty much any sequence could ouput via my BlackMagic Intensity Pro, and I didn't have to be in a BM sequence. Well, I have found that I am restricted by resolution and framerate - I have to be in a 720p60 sequence or nothing will output to my TV (which is a 720p TV). This is quite a problem as I am almost exlcusively working in 1080p24 sequences. Am I doing something wrong? Or have I misenterpretted the capabilities? FCP was able to pretty much ouput any seq/frame rate with the card.

 

-sam

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2012 1:06 PM   in reply to redprod

    Does it matter how the 'default video standard' is set in the BMD Video 9.5 control panel?

     

    Richard Knight

     
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  • joe bloe premiere
    4,391 posts
    Dec 6, 2009
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    May 7, 2012 2:25 PM   in reply to redprod

    redprod,

     

    Has your problem been resolved?

    I am anxious to hear Adobe Mercury Transmit success stories!

     

    What's the best third party hardware for CS6 Adobe Mercury Transmit?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2012 5:11 PM   in reply to joe bloe premiere

    I am anxious to hear Adobe Mercury Transmit success stories!

     

    Ditto.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2012 7:56 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Trying to understand your frustration....so your trying to send a 720p television a 1080p 23.976 (24p) signal and its not working. So where are you expecting the conversion to take place? The TV or the card? Not sure of the exact model of your TV, but there are quite a few out there that cannot support a 1080p signal. I guess the next question would be....did you ever send a 1080p 23.976 signal to the same TV prior to CS-6?

     

    Ray

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2012 11:08 PM   in reply to Ray Tragesser

    I would presume the card would handle any necessary conversions from sequence settings to desired output settings.

     

    (I would also hope that the card is fully capable of sending out whatever the sequence gives it, without conversion, if that is the desired behavior.)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 8, 2012 4:05 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    I'm demoing CS6 and had my own thought on this.  Let me see if this helps articulate the problem.

     

    The crux of the matter is, in Final Cut Pro as an example, the BM Intensity output is completely independent of whatever sequence settings you use.  This has never been possible and is still not possible in Premiere.

     

    In my case, I use an older HD CRT for color correction that only accepts and outputs 1080i and I often edit 23.98 material. The main thing in FCP -- I could always leave my monitor on no matter what I was editing.

     

    In Premiere Pro CS5 and earlier, the framerate output of the Intensity always changes to match the BM sequence. Obvious, yes.

     

    So I knew I had to only use 29.97 Intensity sequences. I knew if I jumped to a BM sequence I would get a normal picture.  When I jumped back to a regular, say AVCHD 23.98 sequence for instance, it would shut the Intensity output off. It wasn't ideal, but the output signal was simply controlled by whatever sequence I selected.

     

    Now, because of CS6's new way of outputting video to the Intensity, unless I always only edit in 29.97 or deselect the Intensity output in the menu, I am constantly having to either shut my monitor off myself, or dig down into some submenu to deselect the Intensity output. Honestly, it's a pain.

     

    For me CS6 is a step backwards in video output to the BM Intensity card. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 8, 2012 5:07 AM   in reply to CSTeam3

    It sounds like this is more of a monitoring expectation problem rather than a Blackmagic problem. In my suite, I have a Flanders broadcast monitor and also a Panasonic Plasma VT-25. I know first hand what types of signals these monitors can sync too. For illustration purposes, If I were to load up some 5K PAL material in Premiere Pro, I wouldnt expect either monitor to display that content because they simply are not designed to do that. I also wouldnt expect the Blackmagic Card to do the conversion.

     

    If you are expecting to put any type of footage (resolution & frame rate) and it comes out through Mercury Transmit and I/O card, I dont believe that is the correct way approach it. If you really need that then I would take a look at a Teranex solution.

     

    Please keep us posted on this situation and your experiences. I am very curious how this plays out.

     

    Ray

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 8, 2012 5:27 AM   in reply to Ray Tragesser

    Sorry, Ray.  I do expect it because obviously, either the Blackmagic card or Final Cut is already doing exactly some type of conversion at least from 2398 progressive to 29.97 interlaced and it works fine.  

     

    I don't know what you're talking about.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 8, 2012 8:53 AM   in reply to CSTeam3

    No Worries. I am just trying to understand if there is a problem or bug or limitation. Lets go back a moment and try to figure out where the problem is being introduced.

     

    1) Premiere Pro

    2) Mercury Transmit

    3) Blackmagic Card

    4) Monitors

     

    Is this a new situation introduced by CS-6 or were you able to accomplish this is CS-5.x?

     

    I have Premiere and Final Cut on the same system and also the BM Extreme 3D card. The workflow between FC7 and Premiere Pro is certainly different. I find that in Premiere as long as I work in any sequence that the BM card supports, I have no problems. The other variable is back to the monitors being used. If the monitor cant sync to a certain framerate or resolution then its a no go.

     

    Ray

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 8, 2012 9:00 AM   in reply to Ray Tragesser

    as long as I work in any sequence that the BM card supports, I have no problems.

     

    That is supposed to be the main benefit of the new Mercury Transmit feature.  ALL sequences are now supported by the BM card.

     

    The question is, will the BM driver offer the user a choice of conversion to a specific format in order to comply with specific monitors capabilities, as well as passing through any signal unaltered.  In my opinion, any third party output card really should offer both options - conversion and pass-through.  A pass-though may not work for some monitors, but the conversion option should work for any sequence with any monitor.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 8, 2012 9:08 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    If you go over to the BM page and take a look at the Intensity Pro technical specs here are the HD specs:

     

    1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60, 1080p23.98, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29.97, 1080p30, 720p50, 720p59.94 and 720p60.

     

    Pretty Awesome for $199.

     

    I am not seeing anywhere that mentions that this card will "cross convert" to other formats. It will do a basic HD>SD provided its the same framerate, or capture SD to HD at the same framerate. Not sure why you guys are expecting more from the Mercury Transmit Feature? Its the same hardware card being utilized in a new highly optimized way via the Adope SDK /API. The functionality of the card hasnt changed, just the way Adobe is accessing it.

     

    What am I missing here?

     

    Ray


     


     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 8, 2012 9:19 AM   in reply to Ray Tragesser

    Not sure why you guys are expecting more from the Mercury Transmit Feature?

     

    Not the feature, the card.  I expect Mercury Transmit to pass the video "as is" to the card.  I expect the card to be able to now read that video, even though it's not in a BM sequence, and either send it on "as is", or convert on-the-fly to the desired resolution/frame rate set by the user (as most any Blu-ray player can).  If it can't do the latter (conversion) it's usefulness is minimized somewhat.

     

    For example, I have a CRT HD for monitoring which is far better than most any consumer flat panel monitor.  But as a CRT set, it can't take 1080p resolution or 23.976 at any resolution.  So for me to use that card, I'd have to convert on the fly to something the set can accept.

     
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    May 8, 2012 10:12 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    For $199 not sure expectations are totally realistic. Looking back just a year ago the Teranex boxes were very expensive that would do this real time conversion. I understand the Final Cut comparison with the same card and also the frustration you are having now. The good news is that Blackmagic has aquired Teranex and have drastically cut prices. The bad news is we still have yet to determine if this is a limitation of:

     

    Premiere Pro

    Adobe Mercury Transmit

    BM Card

    BM Driver

    Monitoring

     

    http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/teranex/

    $2000 gets you cross converting all day and night.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 8, 2012 10:21 AM   in reply to Jim Simon
    "What am I missing here?"

     

     

    Ray,

     

    It IS a monitor issue. That's just the point. 

     

    My monitor won't display anything but 1080i.  The issue is that FCP can overcome this by outputting a display rate that I specify no matter the sequence settings. Premiere can not! Premiere can only pass through what the sequence is set for.  And all this with exactly the same card on exactly the same system!  So I know it's not a limitation of the card.

     

    Geesh, I feel like we're talking in circles here.  You guys figure it out. Later.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 8, 2012 6:47 PM   in reply to Ray Tragesser

    For $199 not sure expectations are totally realistic.

     

    Blu-ray players are now less than $100, and they all do it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 8, 2012 6:50 PM   in reply to redprod

    4K RED R3D files

     

    And there's another point.  How many folks using 4K media will actually have a 4K monitor?  You NEED that real time conversion from all output cards.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 9, 2012 4:01 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    FCP changed the output IN THE APP.  If you were running a 1080p 23.98...and you didn't have a monitor that supported that...you could tell FCP to send out a 1080i 29.97 signal.  Then the signal going from FCP to the IO device would be 29.97.  The VIEW>VIdeo Playback was where you changed this.  And you could change it to 720p 59.94 if you wanted, and the 1080p 23.98 signal would be converted by FCP to 720p 59.94.  FCP did that, not the IO devices.

     

    For the record, this is something Avid does too...the locking the output to match the sequence.  The project settings determine the output settings, and they cannot be changed.  You can have the card, via it's interface, change the signal. At least in the AJA Control panel.

     

    When I'm done rendering in COLOR, I'll see how the Kona 3 interacts with CS6...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 9, 2012 4:18 PM   in reply to Shane_Ross

    Erm, am I missing something here? As the previous poster mentions, don't you just need to choose your display format in the Blakmagic Control Panel (or whatever it's called - I use Kona)?

     

    In the AJA control panel you have your Primary Format, ie your sequence settings, then your Secondary Format for converting the signal for output to the monitor. If you happen to have a monitor that supports the same format at the sequence settings you can feed it the Primary Format. This is nothing new for FCP users, it's just that FCP lets you change your Secondary Format from inside FCP.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 9, 2012 5:27 PM   in reply to Shane_Ross

    OK...I can get PPro 6 to output 29.97 video from a 23.98 timeline with the AJA Kona 3.  Follow these steps and see if it works for your BMD card.

     

    Go to PREFERENCES and select PLAYBACK.  See your device that has the check mark next to it?  Click on  SETUP.  A small interface will appear that offers VIDEO FORMAT and PIXEL FORMAT.  VIDEO FORMAT will say MATCH SEQUENCE.  Click on that and choose what you want it to output.  In my case, I used a 23.98 1080 sequence, but chose to play out 1080i29.97.  And when I did...it worked fine.  Just like it did in FCP.

     

    See if this works for your BMD card.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 9, 2012 5:52 PM   in reply to Shane_Ross
     
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    May 9, 2012 7:18 PM   in reply to redprod

    Hi Shane,

     

    Good Detective Work! Thanks.

     

    Is that a feature of just the Aja Kona 3G card or the whole Kona product line? The Kona 3G is $2000 quite a bit more than the $199 Intensity Pro.

     

    Ray T

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 9, 2012 9:52 PM   in reply to Ray Tragesser

    I'll wager it is the full Kona line. And I have the Kona 3...not 3G.  The LHi is cheaper...IO Express even cheaper. 

     

    There's a reason AJA products are more expensive.  Customer service is one...you encountered another...better software development. They are usually the first to come out with drivers, and good solid ones.  And apparently with more features than the competition.

     

    You get what you pay for.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2012 4:10 AM   in reply to Shane_Ross

    I'm just trying to test this out with my Kona 3 and realised that I have no monitoring options at all, other than the default Adobe ones. AJA don't appear to have released drivers for CS6 yet, so how are you getting it to output to your monitor, Shane? I understand you were on the beta program so perhaps Adobe/AJA have sent you an as yet unreleased driver. If not, how come yours is working??

     

    I just installed the CS5.5 drivers wondering if that would help. It didn't, although I don't have 5.5 installed, which might be the problem there.

     

     

    Any thoughts?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2012 4:55 AM   in reply to redprod

    Yep all that is kinda frustrating! And another thing is in my case i have 1080p25 footage and use it ( have to) in a 1080i50 sequence.

    1st issue: a short but really noticaable delay on my external screen. and 2nd issue: i can't see anything that is in the "Source" monitor (cuz it plays back 25p in that one)

     

    ...well maybe a lil Blackmagic Mini Converter can help? (like the HDMI to SDI or UpDownCross...)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2012 10:31 AM   in reply to AlexElkins

    Yeah...sorry.  This is a beta plugin. I didn't realize that (well, REMEMBER that) when I did the blog post.  Since CS6 was released, I assumed that the AJA plugins were as well, and they weren't.  Still some things to be locked down.

     

    I hope I don't get smacked for posting that blog.  If it comes down, you know that I did.

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2012 10:50 AM   in reply to Shane_Ross

    Cheers Shane, thanks for clarifying. Guess we have to just wait for AJA then.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 13, 2012 2:04 AM   in reply to AlexElkins

    to use the local venacular here: Erm, am I missing something here?

     

    i'm just moving over fron vegas using two monitors off a gtx and my bm intensity pro playing full hd of whatevers on the timeline.

     

    does cs6 behave differently from this? if so how?

     

    i'm in pal land

     
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