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Graphic quality in project imported from word/graphics disappear from compiled chm

New Here ,
May 01, 2012 May 01, 2012

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I've been searching for a means of importing graphic quality when importing a word doc with graphics to rh. Linking the graphic files in word instead of embedding them seemed to be an effective solution. But only when compiling to web help. Oddly enough, when I compile to a chm (after importing the word doc, and the linked graphics displaying in rh), all the linked graphics disappear - from rh, from the word document, and even from the graphics folder where they were saved. It is the strangest thing. I've tested this extensively in RH8, and somewhat in RH9. Does anyone have any advice regarding this or know if Adobe is planning on solving this major bug? Has anyone found an efficient way of improving graphic quality (especially of screen captures that were resized) other than manually inserting them in the RH project?  TIA.

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Community Expert ,
May 06, 2012 May 06, 2012

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First of all, there is no bug here. Resizing graphics is an issue regardless of whether or not you are working with RoboHelp.

Second, linking is not supported, the images must be embedded in the Word document.

Now let's look at the general problem. First see http://www.grainge.org/pages/various_rh_projects/images/index.htm. It's an old topic but I believe the general information holds good. More recently I found something else that may be relevant. I needed to resize some screenshots rather than some other image. As soon as I applied any resizing, the text became ugly. That led me to suspect that the tool the developers use to create the screens can have an impact when resizing. I haven't had a chance to test that yet by working with screens from different products using differerent tools.

Open one of your Word documents and right click on an image that is giving you grief. Use the Save Image option and save the image as a jpg or whatever. Then open that in a grapics editor. Recently I tried to help someone whose image size was something like 5000 pixels wide. Given the average screen size, no wonder it look bad after being reduced to the size required to fit on screen.


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New Here ,
May 06, 2012 May 06, 2012

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First of all, thank you so much for replying.

Your link comparing resizing methods is very good, but relates to importing images directly into RH, or at the very least manually resizing each image in RH.

We work by importing our word documents into RH (is that not a very common method of using RH?). I was hoping that there was a way that I could import a word document with embedded images into RH without resulting in degradation of image quality, or alternatively needing to subsequently reimport each image separately. Otherwise, the import from word option is not really such a powerful function.

Weirdly enough, I have had success on occasion importing word documents with linked images into RH, even though it is not supported. I don't know what permutation of settings and clicking my heels allowed me to do that. But when it did work, the image quality was excellent. Is there some fundamental reason Adobe can't support import of linked documents?

The best way I have found of preserving image quality when importing word documents is by first resetting all images in Word to full size (using a macro?). Most images that have been reduced in size for a word document do not need resizing on a full screen in webhelp and so the reset to full size achieves the required size. The few that do, I resize using the ResizeTool. I was just hoping for an even more efficient method.

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Community Expert ,
May 06, 2012 May 06, 2012

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Sorry, I should have indicated it was more about resizing being the usual cause, be that direct or via Word.

Yes importing is common and whilst we do see people with problems, most people have success.

I don't know what the reason behind linked images is for sure, I suspect it is to do with the import being able to access the images from a network location.

I'll take another look at the thread later. Have to go out now.


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Community Expert ,
May 06, 2012 May 06, 2012

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Can you send me a Word document with some images?

One that imports cleanly without being expanded to full size.

One that imports cleanly only if expanded to full size.

One that will not import cleanly and has to be reworked in RoboHelp.

See the Contact page on my site. It's OK to attach the document to your email.


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Community Expert ,
May 07, 2012 May 07, 2012

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I have tested the documents you sent and what I find is that the documents where you reset the image size give a clear image, as expected. That said they would be way too large.

The smaller images are importing into RoboHelp with little difference in the quality they were in Word. Both had been significantly resized. If you resize in Word, they are then clear in Word but the same rescale in RoboHelp is poor. That is because in RoboHelp they were imported at the size seen in Word (already reduced) so when increased, the data is not in the file to give the required clarity.

One thing I did notice was the png images were importing as jpgs. At one time if you imported documents with pngs they would show as missing. The 902 service release changed that but I am not sure without further research whether they should import as pngs. At the moment they are importing as jpgs. What are you finding using the documents you sent me?

I also saved the png you had reset in Word as a png. I then resized that in SnagIt to 50% and whilst it could be increased back to size better than the image imported at reduced size, it was still unacceptable. Whilst I will find out the format in which RoboHelp should import the pngs, I don't think that will help too much. The key issue here seems to be the original size of the image, the fact that screenshots do not resize down too well and certainly not down to the degree you require ( around 50%).


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Community Expert ,
May 07, 2012 May 07, 2012

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Please confirm that in RoboHelp 9 you have the 902 service release applied?

Also please run a quick test to see if there is any difference according to whether you paste the image into Word or use Insert > Picture.


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New Here ,
May 07, 2012 May 07, 2012

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Hi,

I don't understand what you mean when you write: "That is because in RoboHelp they were imported at the size seen in Word (already reduced) so when increased, the data is not in the file to give the required clarity." When are the images being increased in RH? - I was leaving them at the size they imported in (I never increase the size in RH, only decrease).

If I reduce the size of a capture in Word or Snagit to say 70% and insert it into a word doc and import it into RH, it is displayed in RH at 70% of the original size - and looks pretty bad (blurry, pixelated). But if I insert the capture in Word full size and then import into RH at full size and then reduce to 70%, it looks great - sharp, clear. In both cases, I am only reducing once and never increasing.

The examples I had sent you were using Insert>Picture. When I paste the pictures in instead, the image quality is slightly worse. And the quality is unacceptable not only when I reduce by 50% as in the examples I sent you, but even when I reduce by 70-75%.

I didn't have the 902 service release applied before, but I retested now that I do. The difference is that pngs now import as pngs and there is now no difference in image quality between imported pngs and gifs (I think they will only import as pngs if you check Allow PNG as a graphics format in the Word Options>Advanced in the Word doc).

Thanks for your help.

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Community Expert ,
May 08, 2012 May 08, 2012

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When I imported the reduced size images the quality was no different to when they were in Word. Both are bad in the reduced size documents before I start and are no worse in RoboHelp.

As I explained earlier, that level of reduction will lead to a severe reduction in clarity and I am seeing little or no difference between the reduced size images in Word and what RoboHelp shows.

I assume you meant you have also reduced TO 70-75% rather than BY that amount but even that will cause this issue. It is in the nature of the graphic rather than what RoboHelp is doing. That is witnessed by the fact the screen capture is no worse in Word which we all know is good at image reduction.

How bad is the difference you are seeing and are you viewing at 100%.


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New Here ,
May 08, 2012 May 08, 2012

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Hi, yes, I meant TO 70-75%.

The difference I'm seeing between the word doc and the webhelp/chm produced by rh is significant, and I am viewing at 100%. I am inserting here a screencap that shows the

image as generated by rh, next to the way it displays in the word doc. It is hard to see the difference since it is reduced so significantly in the forum here, but if you copy and paste it into a word doc and then reset to full size, I think the difference will be clear. Peter, I will also email you the screen cap comparing in case that somehow doesn't work.

Thanks again.

imagesnagcomparinggifinworddoctoimportedgifinrh.png

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Community Expert ,
May 08, 2012 May 08, 2012

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If you import the document pngnotresetinword.docx you are saying the image imports into RoboHelp as a PNG, correct?

I did a different test and can see what you are getting at but at the moment for reasons I cannot explain, the png is importing as a jpg so I would expect to see a difference.

Leave it with me for a while. Prompt me if I don't get back within 48 hours.


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New Here ,
May 08, 2012 May 08, 2012

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Yes, in RH9 it will import as a png (if in Word, in the Word Options>Advanced, I check Allow PNG as a graphics format). But we don't need to compare the pngs which RH8 converted to jpgs, we can compare the gifs, which are being imported as gifs.

In any case, thanks.

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Community Expert ,
May 08, 2012 May 08, 2012

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Sorry to come back but this is very important in the dialog I am having with Adobe. The PNG importing as a PNG is with the document you sent as above, not some other document or some other image.

I know about the setting.


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New Here ,
May 08, 2012 May 08, 2012

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No, you're right, I just checked, in that doc, the image imports as a

jpg. But in other docs with pngs, they've imported as pngs. Sorry for

the (repeated) inaccuracy on my part.

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Community Expert ,
May 08, 2012 May 08, 2012

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It seems the cause of that is that the PNG in Word is transparent.

Please create a PNG that has no transparency, insert that into Word and see what happens in your webhelp.


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New Here ,
May 08, 2012 May 08, 2012

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It does seem like that is the problem, since when I snag my desktop

(which isn't transparent) it imports as a png. Similarly when I take

that initial screen cap in Word and "Recolor" the background, it also

then imports as a png.

BTW, though the image that is inserted in the RH page is the jpg in the

case of a transparency, the project imports both a jpg and png version,

and both show up in the files folder.

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Community Expert ,
May 08, 2012 May 08, 2012

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So when import now and the image comes in as a PNG, then the webhelp is OK, is that what you are saying?


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New Here ,
May 08, 2012 May 08, 2012

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yes, my screen cap looks ok in the webhelp. But what's strange is that I

tried retaking that screen capture of my desktop that before came in as

a png, and now it imports as a jpg. Similarly, when I resize that screen

cap in word, it then imports to RH as a jpg. I tried retaking that

screen cap of my desktop several times - always a jpg now! Should I send

you the rh file with the images?

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Community Expert ,
May 08, 2012 May 08, 2012

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If your screen capture is capturuing the image with transparency, then it is going to come in as a JPG. You need to capture the screen and then ensure there is no transparency.

Can we stock take now? It seems that if your images are PNGs with no transparency, they are importing OK and are OK in the webhelp. So it would seem you have a workflow that gives you what you want. Correct?


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New Here ,
May 09, 2012 May 09, 2012

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First of all, how do I ensure there is no transparency.

Second, I've experimented further and found that the determining factor

seems not to be transparency (unless that is somehow related to this)

but rather the resizing method. Screen caps that are full size import to

rh as pngs. Similarly, screen caps that were resized in snagit import to

rh as pngs. The image quality for both is very good.

Screen caps, however, that were resized in word (or by changing the

resolution in snagit or photoshop) import to rh as jpgs - with the

accompanying poor image quality.

The problem is that resizing the screen caps in snagit is not a good

option for the word documents - because the image quality in the doc is

quite poor (when viewed at a higher resolution)

So I still have no way of creating a word doc with images that can be

imported into RH while retaining the image quality.

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Community Expert ,
May 09, 2012 May 09, 2012

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I think you have answered your question. When Word resizes, the image has transparency. When RoboHelp saves the Word document as HTML, it has to use Word's Save As Web Page and the resized images then have this transparency meaning they have to come in as JPGs.

It may be that RoboHelp can engineer a solution but that would need a feature request and it will not help you in the short term.

I realise that this has not really got you a good workflow but at least the issues are understood.

Taking just the example you used, is that representative? Do you need to show, in that example, the whole ribbon?


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New Here ,
May 09, 2012 May 09, 2012

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Why are the resized gifs also being imported as jpgs?

I really don't understand how this isn't an issue for lots of RH users,

and a sufficiently serious one that Adobe would have seen fit to solve

it - how can RH be a serious option for generating online help from

print documentation when it "messes up" any resized image?

Perhaps this could be partially solved by supporting word docs with

linked images.

(Yes, we often like to show whole dialog boxes that require resizing.)

In any case, thanks for your help.

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Community Expert ,
May 09, 2012 May 09, 2012

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Because when Word resizes it is introducing transparency and transparency is something the import cannot handle, as explained. Where there is transparency, Word saves the image as a JPG, then hands it over to RoboHelp. I don't think there is anything Adobe can do but I will be taking that up with them.

I suspect that most people are working in RoboHelp to create their topics or accepting that the level of resizing required is just too great.


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Community Expert ,
May 09, 2012 May 09, 2012

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I just realised I misread your first sentence. I'll look again later but I thought they came in as gifs for me.


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Community Expert ,
May 09, 2012 May 09, 2012

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I imported your resized gif and confirm that too is coming in as a JPG. My guess is the issue is really to do with transparency and I have asked Adobe to confirm that.


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