Adobe Community: CS6 Extended - Crashing Like Crazy

da wn

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CS6 Extended - Crashing Like Crazy

May 11, 2012 2:01 PM

Mac Pro; Mac OS 10.7.3; 16GB ram; ATI Radeon HD 5770 1024 MB

Just installed CS6 Extended a couple of days ago, after deinstalling the beta and verifying permissions.

I seem to be crashing a lot - I'd say half a dozen times over the past day or so. I make a path (e.g. a simple rectangle), 3D layer from that path, then start to work with extrusion and revolving the extrusion. All of a sudden, the object will disappear from view, though its representation still appears on the layer thumbnail. I'll click different layers, trying to get the object back, then the program crashes. I've sent all the reports to Adobe.

The beta rarely crashed on me at all; but this release seems very unstable. I'm not able to get anything done in the 3D module without eventually crashing per the above.

Is anyone experiencing similar problems?

6438 Views 42 Replies Latest reply: station_two, Jul 31, 2012 5:00 AM

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1. Chris Cox,

May 11, 2012 3:10 PM in reply to da wn

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I found a few reports with your email address - and you're crashing in MacOS OpenGL drivers.
This appears to be a bug that Apple introduced in MacOS 10.7.3, and is limited to certain "deprecated" cards (according to Apple).
It doesn't appear to be fixed in 10.7.4. We have informed Apple, and provided them with the crash report data for them to diagnose the problem.

Until Apple can fix their driver code, you may want to turn off the GPU features in Photoshop's preferences.

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2. SG...,

May 11, 2012 3:21 PM in reply to da wn

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Hi,

Do you submit the crash reports with this (rochester.rr.com) domain? If so we have a bug report and are investigating.

If the domain isn't yours, let me know and I can contact you to get more info.

regards,
steve

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3. da wn,

May 12, 2012 7:55 AM in reply to SG...

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Hi Steve:

Yes, that's my domain. Thanks to you and Chris for your replies.

If that was Apple's reply, I find it interesting that they "deprecate" the video card they sold me in the Mac Pro I purchased less than a year ago. Since I have Applecare on this system, I'll be giving them a call to ask about this problem

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4. da wn,

May 12, 2012 9:08 AM in reply to da wn

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I just got off the phone with Applecare. The tech thought this is probably a conflict between CS6 Extended functionality (the 3D stuff) and my stock ATI 5770 card, i.e., new, intensive capability vs. underpowered graphics hardware.

So, basically, I'm out of luck? Maybe Apple and Adobe will be able to patch the video drivers to fix this (assuming that's the problem); maybe they won't. Apparently, all I can do is do the OS upgrades/patches and hope for the best.

Since I bought CS6 Extended to take my design business into 3D, I need a plan B. I can try for awhile to work around the crashes, but I may eventually have to go for a graphics card upgrade, with no guarantee that will fix the problem.

With that in mind - is there any sort of list of *Adobe tested* graphics cards that could replace my Radeon HD 5770, should it come to that? Looks like I could go to an HD 5870 via the Apple store, but there doesn't seem to be any difference compared to the 5770. Damn ...

They say the pioneers get the arrows - guess this is what I get for trying to go 3D!

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5. Noel Carboni,

May 12, 2012 10:43 AM in reply to da wn

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I have a Radeon HD 5670 with 1 GB of DDR5 display RAM on my PC (not Mac), and I don't have any problem running Photoshop CS6 smoothly and interactively. This card is PLENTY powerful enough to run Photoshop.

Your 5770 is more powerful by about 30% than my 5670.

Honestly, I'd suspect anyone telling you your card is underpowered of pulling your leg.

-Noel

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6. da wn,

May 12, 2012 11:01 AM in reply to Noel Carboni

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I misspoke when I used the term "underpowered".

To clarify - the evidence seems to be pointing to a bug in the video card's software drivers (which are typically provided via OS updates).

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7. Noel Carboni,

May 12, 2012 11:25 AM in reply to da wn

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Yes, I can believe that's true. This is the downside of Apple having to approve every driver update before it becomes available to customers. The upside is that only good versions are supposed to get out there.

When the dust settles from the Photoshop CS6 release things will likely get better. I'm a little surprised though, that this hasn't already had more attention paid to it, since Photoshop CS6 beta has been out for a couple of months already. Plus, while there were a couple of hiccups, ATI has done a pretty good job lately with their drivers on the PC side; I'd expect good quality from them on the Mac as well.

In the interim, as a workaround have you tried the various advanced Graphics Processor settings available in Photoshop - Preferences - Performance?

-Noel

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8. Chris Cox,

May 12, 2012 11:30 AM in reply to da wn

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No conflict. And that card is not underpowered (it would probably work perfectly in 10.6.8 or 10.7.2).
We tested the 5770 quite a bit, and it worked fine - until 10.7.3 was released.

Apple introduced a bug in their OpenGL drivers in 10.7.3, but it only affects certain cards.
When we asked Apple about this, the cards that are affected are on their "deprecated" list. I can make guesses about how an engineer might make a mistake based on that information, but I don't know for certain, and we don't have access to Apple's code to know what the exact mistake might be.

We are talking to Apple about this, but it doesn't currently appear that Adobe can do anything about the driver bug -- we probably have to wait for Apple to fix it.

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9. da wn,

May 13, 2012 6:43 AM in reply to Noel Carboni

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Noel asked:
as a workaround have you tried the various advanced Graphics Processor settings available in Photoshop - Preferences - Performance?

No, not yet, but I will.

A couple of observations I'd like to add to this case record ...

- once Photoshop crashes, I can restart the app, but I will get an almost immediate crash (i.e. no buildup) working in the same file.

- in my case, the crashes destabilize my system to the point of requiring restart. Specifically, Spaces malfunction, i.e., I keystroke to a space and the app's windows are not visible. I have to select the app in the Dock to restablish the windows in that Space; and the Space dedicated to Finder windows is completely gone, requiring me to reset the Finder to "This Desktop".

Feels like I'm back in the Dark Ages - crash, reboot, pray; crash, reboot, pray ...

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10. Noel Carboni,

May 13, 2012 6:47 AM in reply to da wn

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That sounds very much like the kind of instability a driver can cause.

I believe you'll be able to either lower the Photoshop GPU usage to "Basic" or disable it entirely and see an improvement in stability.

-Noel

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11. gwbeers,

May 13, 2012 8:36 AM in reply to Noel Carboni

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Photoshop 5.5 and beta 6 workrd fine in OSX 10.7.4. When in the released version of CS6, the 3D Environment is literaly useless. Any attempt to save in 3D, attemp to alter color, and render with reflection effects crashes Photoshop. The GPU is at "basic", when turned off the 3D environment is not accessible. Mac Pro , 32 gb ram, 4 - 480gb SSD drives & NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256 MB. The fact that version prior to the CS6 release were working has me puzzled. To be sure, I just duplicated my CS6 attempted project in CS5 at it prefomed flawlessly.

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12. Chris Cox,

May 13, 2012 12:40 PM in reply to da wn

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Yes, that sounds like the video card driver, but could also be related to bugs in Spaces (which Apple so far has not fixed).

7300 GT - that shouldn't be available for 3D in the first place, that driver is known NOT to work correctly (and it was disabled in previous versions of Photoshop as well).

Could you please post your Help->System Info log?

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13. gwbeers,

May 13, 2012 3:25 PM in reply to gwbeers

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Adobe Photoshop Version: 13.0 (13.0 20120315.r.428 2012/03/15:21:00:00) x64
Operating System: Mac OS 10.7.4
System architecture: Intel CPU Family:6, Model:15, Stepping:6 with MMX, SSE Integer, SSE FP, SSE2, SSE3
Physical processor count: 4
Processor speed: 2660 MHz
Built-in memory: 32768 MB
Free memory: 24698 MB
Memory available to Photoshop: 31271 MB
Memory used by Photoshop: 80 %
Image tile size: 1024K
Image cache levels: 4
OpenGL Drawing: Enabled.
OpenGL Drawing Mode: Basic
OpenGL Allow Normal Mode: False.
OpenGL Allow Advanced Mode: False.
OpenGL Allow Old GPUs: Not Detected.
OpenGL Version: 2.1 NVIDIA-7.0.52
OpenCL Unavailable
Video Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Video Card Renderer: NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT OpenGL Engine
Display: 1
Main Display
Display Depth:= 32
Display Bounds:= top: 0, left: 0, bottom: 1600, right: 2560
Video Renderer ID: 16917516
Video Card Memory: 234 MB
Video Rect Texture Size: 4096
Serial number: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Application folder: Glenn's Mac:Applications:Adobe CS 6:Adobe Photoshop CS6:
Photoshop scratch has async I/O enabled
Scratch volume(s):
Glenn's Mac, 223.3G, 129.1G free
Required Plug-ins folder: Glenn's Mac:Applications:Adobe CS 6:Adobe Photoshop CS6:Adobe Photoshop CS6.app:Contents:Required:
Primary Plug-ins folder: Glenn's Mac:Applications:Adobe CS 6:Adobe Photoshop CS6:Plug-ins:
Additional Plug-ins folder: not set

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14. Chris Cox,

May 13, 2012 3:27 PM in reply to gwbeers

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OK, that's weird - I thought that card should be disabled, but it's enabled and "allow old GPUs" isn't installed.

We'll have to investigate.

(honestly, the drivers for that card are among the worst known drivers)

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15. gwbeers,

May 14, 2012 7:04 AM in reply to Chris Cox

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Are there other drivers or firmware updates available for this card, or are you suggesting a replacement? If you're recommendind a replacement , what would you recommend?

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16. Curt Y,

May 14, 2012 7:11 AM in reply to gwbeers

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It is my understanding with Apple you have to take the drivers that are included with the OS update.

Windows user so not sure if you can roll back to a previous OS update which may have differet driver update.

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17. gwbeers,

May 14, 2012 7:17 AM in reply to Curt Y

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I beleive that as well. But can't understand why CS5 (and the CS6 beta) has no problem with the driver and CS6 crashes while preforming identical tasks on the same project.

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18. Curt Y,

May 14, 2012 8:10 AM in reply to gwbeers

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The 3D infrastructure in CS6 has changed from CS5 and needs more horsepower. But if CS6 beta worked, CS6 Extended should also as they are virtually the same product. Bugs identified are still being re-coded.

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19. gwbeers,

May 15, 2012 3:45 PM in reply to Curt Y

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Swopped the old card for a ATI Radeon HD 5770. All good!

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20. Noel Carboni,

May 15, 2012 4:49 PM in reply to gwbeers

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Another ATI success story. Thanks for reporting back, gw!

-Noel

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21. da wn,

May 18, 2012 7:47 AM in reply to Noel Carboni

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Update …

I've done some preliminary testing with Drawing Mode set to "Basic" and all the options checked. So far, I haven't crashed, but I'll need to work the 3D interface more in order to be sure.

I'll be starting a new 3D project sometime next week; will let you know how it goes.

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22. da wn,

May 23, 2012 9:05 AM in reply to da wn

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Well - I just crashed big time in "Basic" mode (per the above); just trying to inflate a simple, circular path. If there's a workaround to this bug, I don't have a clue.

I must say, I've never felt so cheated. Photoshop CS6 Extended is basically a useless $400 boat anchor, sitting on the deck of a useless $3.5K+ computer. Never thought I would see the day when I would say that about my Adobe/Apple platform, given years of stability and value good enough to build my business on.

I sincerely hope the 2 companies are professional enough to drop the finger pointing, get together and fix this freakin' bug - soon!

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23. gwbeers,

May 23, 2012 1:56 PM in reply to da wn

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da wn, After a ton of crashes I replaced my old video card with a new one - that helped the most obvious, reoccuring crashes but I still had a few bugs soley in the 3D mode. I spoke with Adobe 6 times with no help and finally the last tech I spoke with told me to uninstall Photoshop and reinstall it. That cured all my 3D problems to date. I now have complete a complete crash-free week! I hope writing this isn't the kiss of death....

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24. Noel Carboni,

May 23, 2012 5:57 PM in reply to da wn

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Da wn, what you're experiencing is an exception, rather than the rule. I know that's of little consolation.

I am a bit curious, though... Why did you not download the free trial and ensure that it worked okay on your system before paying the money?

-Noel

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25. Chris Cox,

May 23, 2012 6:05 PM in reply to da wn

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All programs are likely to crash from time to time -- and the most common bugs causing crashes in Photoshop CS6 aren't in Photoshop itself, but in the OS and third party plugins.
So even in Basic mode, you may have a different crash due to a different cause.

Your last reported GPU driver crash that I can find was on May 10.
You hit a 3D crash on May 23. We're still testing a fix for that particular issue.
And you have 2 additional, older reported crashes in similar 3D code (but different enough that they went into different buckets).

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26. da wn,

May 24, 2012 5:42 AM in reply to Noel Carboni

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Noel

I ran the public beta all the way to release of CS6 Extended. As I said in my opening post, the beta rarely crashed, and when it did, it was nothing like what I'm seeing in the released version. I admit to assuming that I could expect at least as much (if not more) stability in the release as I experienced in the beta version.

If (quoting Chris' post on 5/21) "Apple introduced a bug in their OpenGL drivers in 10.7.3, but it only affects certain cards", I'm simply hoping my 3D problems are due to that bug and that a fix will be available soon.

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27. gwbeers,

May 24, 2012 5:54 AM in reply to da wn

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I had the same experience as da wn. I was fine with the Beta in OSX 10.7.4. The release version was the culprit.

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28. Chris Cox,

May 24, 2012 9:09 AM in reply to da wn

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The release version is more stable -- but the crashes you've reported were also present in the beta (just not something we could fix, or further down the list from the critical ones we fixed).

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29. da wn,

May 26, 2012 5:19 AM in reply to gwbeers

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gwbeers:

A couple of questions for you:

1. After you replaced your video card with the ATI 5770, where did your set your Photoshop performance settings?

2. Can you report on the stability of your reinstall of Photoshop Extended? Are you still working in the 3D environment without crashes?

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30. gwbeers,

May 26, 2012 6:22 AM in reply to da wn

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da wn:
After the ATI card install and reinstall of CS6, Photoshop launched and defaulted to ADVANCED with all 3 options checked. I haven't experienced any crashes or glitches since. Since the 3D evvironment is a new toy for me, I've been spending alot of time with it and I'm pleased with the performance.

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31. da wn,

May 26, 2012 8:23 AM in reply to gwbeers

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That's encouraging - thanks. I just updated the OS to 10.7.4 a couple of days ago, so reinstalling Photoshop should bring my setup closer to yours. We'll see if that brings me enough stability to get some work done.

I sure hope so. On a positive note, I'm very impressed with the work Adobe did on the 3D interface for CS6. For me, it was an enormous investment in time and money to learn 3D in 5.5, so this release, with its many crucial improvements, has really got me excited about the design possibilities.

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32. gwbeers,

May 26, 2012 10:46 AM in reply to da wn

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da wn:
It's important to due the Adobe "Uninstall" to remove any remnants from prior CS6 installs, before the re-install. I think you'll find the 3D environment very intuitive and a massive jump from 5.5. I played with 3D in 5.5 but it was too time consuming, where in 6, everything is in realtime and you can edit on the fly. Good luck!

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33. da wn,

May 29, 2012 10:51 AM in reply to gwbeers

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Well, I just crashed quitting the application. I'd done some 3D stuff this morning; nothing heavy, just some minor editing of previous work. My Mac had been idle during lunch; screen saver was on. I used the dock to get to Photoshop, chose Quit from file, and got an Unexpectedly Quit crash. The crash log looks very familiar in terms of the crashed thread wording.

I reinstalled the app a couple of days ago, after Uninstalling via Adobe's Uninstall app.

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34. gwbeers,

May 29, 2012 11:03 AM in reply to da wn

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I got that a lot in CS5 & 5.5, but it never had any effect on the files. I didn't matter whether it was a "command-Q", a quit from the dock or from the app. Haven't seen it in 6 - yet

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35. da wn,

Jun 4, 2012 1:28 PM in reply to da wn

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After some time away from my studio, I'm sorry to report that I've just crashed again - same scenario. I created a simple object from a shape layer; set extrusion to 0; and tried to revolve the extrusion.

I was hoping the upgrade to OS 10.7.4, coupled with a ground up reinstall of CS6, would reduce if not eliminate my crashes, but no go. The 3D module in Photoshop, which is why I bought the upgrade, remains completely unusable.

For me, this upgrade has been a disastrous waste of money and time.

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36. da wn,

Jun 12, 2012 4:43 AM in reply to Chris Cox

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Quoting from a Mac Observer article re the Apple WWDC announcement of a Mac Pro processor bump …

The Mac Pro now ships with two 2.4GHz 6-core Xeon E5645 processors for 12 total cores. Unfortunately, those processors aren’t new for Intel and were first introduced in 2010. The standard graphics card is still ATI’s Radeon HD 5770 with 16GB RAM with two Mini DisplayPort and a dual-link DVI connectors.

So, the Radeon HD 5770 is still the "standard graphics card"? Per post #8 on 5/12, I thought that card was "deprecated"?

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37. Chris Cox,

Jun 12, 2012 9:38 AM in reply to da wn

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We don't define Apple's standards.... We just have to try and deal with them.

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38. da wn,

Jul 15, 2012 10:37 AM in reply to Chris Cox

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The release of Mountain Lion is, apparently, imminent, so Chris - can you tell me if a fix for this bug made it into the OS?

If not, am I just out of luck for this entire release of Photoshop Extended?

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39. Chris Cox,

Jul 16, 2012 2:00 PM in reply to da wn

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We cannot comment on unreleased versions of Apple software.
Apple has fixed many bugs in 10.8, but they'll have to make the announcements.

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