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high speed scrubbing (cs6)

May 10, 2012 12:51 PM

where did the scrubbing dial go? is it gone? or hidden? i miss it =( i also don't like the fact the zoom in feature has changed. but not as annoying as the scrubbing. so is scrubbing axed? (i realize you can do it with the playhead, but i liked the dial better.)

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2012 2:02 PM   in reply to Keith_Clark

    The shuttle wheel has been removed from the Source and Program Monitors in Premiere Pro CS6. You can use JKL keyboard shortcuts to achieve the same thing. Press JK or KL to shuttle slowly.

    You can find a shuttle wheel in the Trim Monitor, if you really need it.

     
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  • Jon-M-Spear
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    Jan 27, 2006
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    May 10, 2012 2:07 PM   in reply to Kevin Monahan

    ...or buy a Contour Shuttle Pro.  you'll wonder how you ever worked without it!

     
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    May 10, 2012 8:23 PM   in reply to Keith_Clark

    Agreed. I can't believe in all the "customize your workspace" nonsense they touted, that they don't let me add the shuttle to the window.

     
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    May 10, 2012 8:39 PM   in reply to WesHaley

    Yeah I cant believe they removed it completely. All of the UI enhancements they are options to go back to the original 5.5 and prior settings yet they dont give an option to add the shuttle/jog buttons. I hope they change that for the next update. I really liked using the shuttle wheel and jog slider. To hjide the button to clean up the interface is one thing, but not to leave the option for it is ridiculous.

     

    Not everyone uses just JKL. I use it regularly however I also like the "OPTION" keyword here "OPTION" of using the mouse and the jog/shuttle controls.

     
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    May 10, 2012 8:53 PM   in reply to Kevin Monahan

    This is horrible...Adobe want me to now start playing multi-key games with eyes off the monitor where before I could use the mouse to move in the video smoothly.

     

    The trim window is useless for this for this. It doesnt' support editing and it is modal, you can't access anything else in the application while it is up.

     

    I move back and forth over a few frames looking for editing points. I don't find the control wheels and advantage and I don't have the space for it. My 2600k 16GB 20TB computer does more than video editing.

     

    The new layout wastes space and doesn't significantly add significantly to real estate.

     

    I want the job and shuttle brought back IMMEDIATELY. This change dramatically screws up my editing. What could Adobe have been thinking!!!

     

    CS6-Problem-01.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2012 9:23 PM   in reply to DavidNJ

    Haven't used CS6 yet, but I use the the shuttle bar and jog wheel all the time. I can't believe that of all the useful feature requests people were clamoring for, deleting the navigation tools were high on the list.

     

    No thanks, please fix it.

     
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    May 10, 2012 10:09 PM   in reply to Stephen_Spider

    Just in case you guys dont know of it...this may help.

     

    Hover your cursor over the Source or Program Monitors and use the mouse scroll wheel to make fine adjustments frame by frame.

     
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    May 10, 2012 10:56 PM   in reply to shooternz

    A fraction of the functionality. It gives maybe a 1/2 second of movement. The Jog wheel gave 5+ seconds plus variable speed, slower up and down then left and right. The shuttle moved seamlessly between slow and fast speeds, forward and back. Hitting the J-K-L or Shift J and Shift-K isn't even a close substitute.

     

    This seems like a classic case where the product planners used "experts" to determine features rather than "users". It is made worse by the new upgrade policy which forces you onto a Creative Cloud subscription or to forced annual updates (since only the most recent version can be upgraded in the future).

     
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    May 10, 2012 11:04 PM   in reply to DavidNJ

    Sorry I thought you said 

     

    " I move back and forth over a few frames looking for edit points"

     

    so I supplied the solution that I use for fine tuning edit points.

     
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    May 10, 2012 11:29 PM   in reply to shooternz

    Understandable...I didn't know you could sue the wheel...and a few to me was closer to 30 or 40. The jog gave lots of flexibility with a simple mouse movement. The shuttle did also.

     

    When Audition lost the frequency zoom on the spectral frequency display it was because of a new codebase to work on the Mac. CS6 Audition brings the zoom back with enhancements.

     

    This is a lose of functionaity with no advantage. They even took away timeline data that was displayed before.

     
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    May 11, 2012 3:49 AM   in reply to DavidNJ

    Have you tried scrolling the mouse wheel in program/source while using the "SHIFT" key modifier? Have no idea if that would work (just now downloading CS6) but I know that the SHIFT key modifier usually does act as a 5x multiplier for frame advancing in the timeline for most of the relevant Adobe apps. Try holding SHIFT while hovering your mouse over the program/source monitor and scrolling with the mouse wheel, let me know if that does anything for you.

     
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    May 11, 2012 4:26 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    Just hover over the Monitors and scroll with the mouse wheel frame for frame. Just like Graig said.

    With Shift it will scroll 5 frames at a time.

     
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    May 11, 2012 4:41 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    this doesn't help me in the mulitcam window, where I do a lot of precise cuts, because it doesn't work there.

     
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    May 11, 2012 5:35 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    Ann Bens wrote:

     

    No shift, just hover over the Monitors and scroll with the mouse wheel frame for frame. Just like Graig said.

     

    I just checked it on my laptop and SHIFT+scroll does indeed increase the scrub rate 5x as I suspected.

     
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    May 11, 2012 5:39 AM   in reply to WesHaley

    Sure it works in a multicam sequence.

     
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    May 11, 2012 6:01 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    But these workarounds are weak substitutes for the real thing. The net is the program and source window navigation was screwed up by removing a bug free feature that is widely used. For many, including myself, it dramatically and adversely affects my editing speed which is a key factor.

     

    Adobe, bring back this feature IMMEDIATELY!!!

     
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    May 11, 2012 6:53 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    It works in a multicam sequence in the program monitor, but it does not work in the multi-camera window where you select your cameras.  And even if it did, like David said, it's not a good substitute for somethign that had no business being taken out.  I don't want to scroll up and down with my mouse wheel. I tried it a little, and that is an awful way to edit.

     

    I've submitted a feature request, so we'll see, but Adobe needs to act on this.

     
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    May 11, 2012 2:30 PM   in reply to DavidNJ

    > Adobe, bring back this feature IMMEDIATELY!!!

     

    You can submit feature requests here: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

     

    We didn't think that many people used it, and we didn't get much indication in our large beta-testing group to the contrary.

     
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    May 11, 2012 3:47 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    Your  beta group was obviously biased. If you had instrumented a random population of CS5 and CS5.5 you could have had statistics on which controls are used. I never heard of the Beta. I only saw the Photoshop "beta" when I was searching for CS6 information when Lightroom 4 came out. That wasn't really a beta at that time;;;;late March 2012.

     

    It isn't a "feature" request. It is a DEFECT. An important feature that was removed. It should have to wait for CS7. It should be returned (maybe as an option) in the first bug fix release.

     

    David

     
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    May 11, 2012 3:51 PM   in reply to Todd_Kopriva

    FWIW...I did use shuttle/jog now and then, but having scroll options works fine for my needs.

     
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    May 11, 2012 3:55 PM   in reply to DavidNJ

    AGREED! Exactly what David said. I love PP, certainly enhance the editing workflow,etc., but dont permanently remove transport controls and other "staples" that have been in the interface since the beginning. I know the idea is to be a more streamlined editing UI like AMC, but please leave the option to bring buttons back as a preference.

     
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    May 11, 2012 4:12 PM   in reply to DavidNJ

    While we are at it, the time panel under the play head was also removed it much harder to know where you are it the clip.. If that was a good idea, why was it left on the sequence?  It serves the same function in the program and source windows, identifying in and out points and a perspective on overall position.

     

    Someone dropped the ball IMHO.

     
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    May 11, 2012 4:22 PM   in reply to DavidNJ

    David, right click on where the ruler is and click "time ruler numbers" is that what you are talking about?

     
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    May 11, 2012 4:31 PM   in reply to WesHaley

    Wes, Thanks!  That was it. Why was it turned off? All that was there was blank space.

     
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    May 11, 2012 4:34 PM   in reply to DavidNJ

    Part of the simplify the interface thing they've done with CS6. Which is fine, if they allow you to change it back

     
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    May 11, 2012 11:21 PM   in reply to Keith_Clark

    Have you actually *tried* the JKL..?  It doesn't sound like you have.  2x/4x/8x is built in - hit L once, regular playback speed; hit it again, 2x; and so on.  Also, if you need to temporarily slow down, try this:  hit & hold the L key until you hit a region of interest, then (again, while the L key is down) hold down the K key at the same time.  Playback speed gears down into frame stepping.  Let go of K again: regular playback speed resumes. You can also use the K paused state in tandem with the J/L keys to 'rock' around points of interest.  It's incredibly powerful, and gives you much more accuracy than you'd ever achieve mousing with the jog.

     

    I should also point out a different way of stepping:  holding arrow left/right steps a frame at a time, but shift-arrow left/right steps 5 frames at a time.  So that's another way to scan footage at a different pace than regular playback.

     

    I'm sorry for the people that liked using the jog control, but I doubt it's going to make a comeback.  These were very researched, deliberate design changes that have been put in (believe me, a lot of energy was spent polling various users in quite a few different editing demographics).  Someone's always bound to not like it when things go away, but we really feel that this decluttering is a boon, not a hindrance, and that all the functionality is still very much there. Adding proper JKL support (including in trim mode!) was a hugely popular feature request, as was cleaning up the usable video space - give it a chance!  You never know, you might just change your minds...

     

    Cheers

     
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    May 11, 2012 11:36 PM   in reply to Wil Renczes

    Yes I have...and it is nowhere near as fluid. IF you have 10 or 15 keystrokes, many requiring multiple keys, you can duplicate the mouse. In a few cases faster.

     

    HOWEVER, the keystrokes require you to have your fingers on the right keys. This is fine for touch typing where your fingers are on the keyboard. But you don't touch type JLK and especially Shift+J, shift+K. Manuveruring between windows. Moving audio to Audition for editing.

     

    Net, the jog and shuttle are VERY useful and a major convienence and time saver. Maybe some of you FCP folks really love JLK; I don't. I've tried it. and use the mouse.

     

    But Premiere Pro should allow both of us to work the way we want to. It is find they added new features...they just had no reason to remove the old features.And removing the old features hurts alot of us.

     

    You didn't save any noticible real estate. If you look at my picture above, the difference is trivial. The jog and shuttle could have been left with the button options. They could have even been implemented as a version of the hover scrub, which doesn't work on the program or source windows. Button down left/right mouse does a jog. Different button makes it shuttle.

     

    But instead...nothing.

     
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    May 11, 2012 11:36 PM   in reply to Wil Renczes

    I'm sory, but this reeks of the same problems Apple users faced with FCPX.  "We think this is better, so we changed it, and you will/should like it"  You guys are in a great position to take a lot of business from Apple with this release, but don't piss off your current customers by shoving your views down our noses. Because the simple fact of the matter is, this is simple fix.  You have already included a way to put back in buttons and customize the workspace, but for some reason neglected this tool that a lot of your users use.  Yes, I have tried JKL. I don't like it. I don't want to like it. I want a simple button/tool that has been in the program to be in there again.  I want the way you cut clips in mulitcam viewer to go back to the way it was. I honestly cannot think of why anyone would want to pick a camera angle while scrubbing and have the whole clip change and not have a cut be made.  But if that worked for your testers, so be it. Give me the option to reverse the behavior. Let Ctrl click change the whole clip, and let a click make a cut. 

     

    Really surprised by this comment from an Adobe employee.  Taking all the exitement out of the release by telling me to just like it the way it is. Hopefully as people get this, enough people will complain here and elsewhere and really put the subscription service to the test by getting us a quick update.

     
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    May 11, 2012 11:41 PM   in reply to Keith_Clark

    This is far too many tricky keystroke combinations requiring rather precise finger registration (the keys are next to each other). Is your ring finger as dexterous as your index finger?

     

    You can use left/right arrow to rock around a point with much better control than the JLK combo, no registrtation issues, and they stop when you lift your finger.

     
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    May 12, 2012 6:49 AM   in reply to WesHaley

    No, Apple deliberately did not listen to users when designing FCPX, as all the beta testers will tell you. They had essentially one guy designing it and they just wanted the betas to say"yes it's great!" Which none of them did.

     

    Adobe worked with users at many levels (I do have personal knowledge of this) and what you see in CS6 is the best combo of features based on the input received. And some of the Adobe testers were very old school jog/shuttle types that are learning to leverage the keyboard more because they realized how much better it is.

     

    I still agree it would have been better to leave those controls in there as toggle option. But it is NOT a deal breaker for most users. A lot of people - like myself - like the new cleaner interface. However, people complain twice as much as they praise so the feedback on this subject will be almost exclusively by dissenters. That's important to remember.

     

    I'm sorry if you feel slighted but you should blame the beta testers for their suggestions and the people who filed feature requests, not Adobe, since they did what their users asked. It's not an FCP thing (FCP had jog/shuttle controls, you know).

     
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    May 12, 2012 7:05 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    my comment wasn't directed at the beta testing process, it was directed at the Adobe employee who just now said we hadn't tried the new way, that we would like it if we did. That shuttle/jog would probably not make a comeback.  Pretty much dismissing all concerns about where these controls have gone and the people who would like the option to have them in there.

     
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    May 12, 2012 7:28 AM   in reply to WesHaley

    WesHaley wrote:

     

    my comment wasn't directed at the beta testing process, it was directed at the Adobe employee who just now said we hadn't tried the new way, that we would like it if we did. That shuttle/jog would probably not make a comeback.  Pretty much dismissing all concerns about where these controls have gone and the people who would like the option to have them in there.

     

    I understand...and even though I'm not an Adobe employee, I do want you to understand that I "feel your pain" about losing a feature that you used, even if you were the absolute ONLY person that used it, I know losing a part of your workflow is a major bummer.

     

    But I wanted to reaffirm that in this case, it really is the users and the beta testers that determine this stuff. With Premiere Pro, probably more than any of the other Adobe apps, Adobe employees were travelling all over the country (and the world...?) working one-on-one with video editors of all stripes to build an editing solution that was what they wanted. Obviously they could not make 100% of the users happy, or implement 100% of the suggestions, nor guarantee that it would work EXACTLY like it did before, but I think they did an outstanding job of listening to users, observing their needs and giving them what they really needed and asked for.

     

    I don't think the Adobe reps are DISMISSING your needs, they are only showing you that perhaps there is a way to do this that is better for most users, and perhaps you MIGHT like it better if you tried it for a bit. Naturally, it would be wrong for them to say "your way of working sucks, you're doing it wrong, our way is so much better and faster you'd be stupid to ask for what you're asking for" (in that case, they really would start sounding like Apple). I think they handled your concern pretty well, even though admittedly they could not even give you any hope of getting your jog/shuttle back. The fact that they could even tell you that at all proves that they are willing to be open with you about the product development. I think if you try the new workflow - and others try it as well - and still insist that it is a worse way of working, then when you voice your opinion once again it will possibly mean something more. For now, it's not a "our way or the highway" approach from Adobe, but it is a situation that you and others like you will have to deal with, so for now I'd suggest implementing the new keyboard workflow and see how it goes for a while.

     

    For me, I absolutely hate having to touch the mouse while in PPro if I can help it. I've customized everything to keyboard shortcuts as much as I can, and even though I occasionally DID use the jog/shuttle, it was more out of my old habits than anything else. I much more frequently employ the JKL combos with the SHIFT modifier (and I didn't know about the J/L+K combo before now, so that is awesome!). That is my opinion, and again, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the new decluttered interface. I removed all but one or two buttons from the source and program monitors and they are never coming back.

     
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    May 12, 2012 7:33 AM   in reply to Christian Jolly

    Christian, prima facie from this thread they may have "worked with users at many levels" but they either didn't do it effectively or missued the result.

     

    Using the jog and shuttle would be common for anyone who preferred the mouse of the keyboard. In affect, they let you use the mouse with no key'/finger registration to manuver with one hand over tasks that would otherwise require high coordination over three fingers that where in a less comfortable position (arms bent, hand arched for the keyboard, arm extended hand relaxed for the mouse).

     

    Removing these controls is a major defect IMHO.

     
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    May 12, 2012 4:12 PM   in reply to DavidNJ

    Even though I feel that Pr is missing a lot of useful functions, I still get a lot more work done in less time than I did on MC or FCP. 

     

    Creative people learn to work around the limitations in their software.

     

    I never used that jog wheel.  Ever.  Didn't affect the quality of my work one iota.  But, like yours, mine is just one man's opinion.

     

    BTW, I put an extensive list of feature requests in a few days ago.  I got an email back from an Adobe employee within ten minutes (telling me one of my requests - a scrub toggle shortcut - was already in CS6).  YMMV, but I was impressed.

     
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    May 12, 2012 4:36 PM   in reply to Jim Curtis

    I never used that jog wheel.  Ever. 

     

    Ditto.

     
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    May 12, 2012 6:41 PM   in reply to Jim Curtis

    > I got an email back from an Adobe employee within ten minutes (telling me one of my requests - a scrub toggle shortcut - was already in CS6).  YMMV, but I was impressed.

    Speaking as one of the people who does the job of reading the feature requests and bug reports for After Effects (it's a rotating job), I can say that we absolutely read, log, tally, and consider every submission. We don't answer every submission, but we often do answer if we need more information. I know that I answer if (as in this case) the requested feature already exists.

     

    Don't count on responses being immediate, either. My usual workflow, when it's my turn, is to process the submissions once a week or so---though that differs from person to person, application to applicaiton, and even depending on what part of the release cycle we're in.

     

    I'm not in the rotation for the Premiere Pro submissions, but I work very closely with the people who are, and I know that they take this part of the job very seriously.

     
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