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Currently Being Moderated

Files become corrupt

May 19, 2012 6:41 AM

Windows 7 64-bit

8GB Ram

Indesign CS5.5 with all updates

 

FIles:

  • small 20,000 word book (1 single document) with no pictures, from a Word file
  • 500 page book (1 single document), with 20 small jpgs (about 2MB total), text generated from scans/OCR, inserted as unformatted text
  • various copies, new/moved, new/IDML, etc. generated as tests

 

Problems

  • Several (all?) files created since 05/05 (the initial manifestation occurred almost instantly) have become corrupted. It either shows up immediately or takes around 6-8 hours
  • Things generally done with a mouse (click and drag to make a text box, resize a text box, copy or move text, placing the cursor to edit) become sluggish (reszing a text box could take 5 seconds to 17 minutes), jerky or sticky (click and drag a handle, release it, the frame edge might move (if and when it does) 0.125" or 6"
  • clicking and dragging text sometimes moves the wrong text or releases it in the wrong place
  • New text boxes have multiple columns although the columns setting is 1
  • Doing some things (e.g. click on export) cause InDesign to freeze

 

Failed solutions

  • The suddenness of the problem made me think it could be a virus--tested the Word file (noted above) and my system:  found no malware of any sort
  • Changed the mouse: touchpad, Wacom Intuos, Logitech trackball (the Wacom tablet works 100% perfectly in Photoshop 32bit, but work only like a mouse in Photoshop 64bit--32/64 bit; drivers are current)
  • any attempt to go into InDesign security (as directed by a technician) fail: no permissions (my account has full administrate rights; a new admin account has full administrative rights) so whatever we could have done there, cannot be done
  • Exported the file as an InDesign Markup IDML, opened in InDesign
  • Moved content of file to new file
  • Creating a new file by moving or opening IDML, may not work at all, or will appear to work but the corruption re-occurs in 1-8 hours
  • uninstalled and re-installed InDesign

 

I uploaded a file to technical support. They promised to call back three different time. They did not. When I have called, they say, "24-48 hours they will call back." 

 

Thank you for any help you can give.

 
Replies 1 2 Previous Next
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 7:04 AM   in reply to molezeen

    I don't see any sign of file corruption in your description. What I do see is jerkiness that is fairly typical of having Live Screen Drawing (General tab of the prefernences) set to Immediate. Try aetting that to Delayed or Never. Some other things that can cause poor response are lots of cross-references, lots of GREP styles, and Live Prefilight, the last of which can be disabled.

     
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  • John Hawkinson
    5,572 posts
    Jun 25, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 7:11 AM   in reply to molezeen

    Indesign CS5.5 with all updates

    This isn't very specific. What's the 3-decimal version number reported by holding down Control and selecting About InDesign?

     

    Problems

    • Several (all?) files created since 05/05 (the initial manifestation occurred almost instantly) have become corrupted. It either shows up immediately or takes around 6-8 hours

    You describe four problems in subsequent bullets -- are those symptoms of the corruption in the first bullet, or is there some other indication you have of corruption?

     
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  • John Hawkinson
    5,572 posts
    Jun 25, 2009
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    May 19, 2012 7:36 AM   in reply to molezeen

    I am using InDesign Version 7.5 (Help > About > Version).

    Can you please follow the instructions I offered?: What's the 3-decimal version number reported by holding down Control and selecting About InDesign?

     
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  • John Hawkinson
    5,572 posts
    Jun 25, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 7:41 AM   in reply to molezeen
    My apologies, when I tried to edit my post, I was denied as being unauthorized.

    The full version number is 7.5.0.142

    Well! I'm glad I asked, rather than accepting your initial claim:

    Indesign CS5.5 with all updates

    You do not have all the updates, and the updates matter! In fact you have no updates at all!

     

    Pleaase update to 7.5.3.333, which came out last month. Though 7.5.2.318 has been out for quite a while.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 7:54 AM   in reply to molezeen

    So you've reinstalled...

     

    Did you run the cleaner tool? (Resolve installation problems with CS5 Cleaner Tool)

     

    Did you remove your prefs when reinstalling? Have you tried replacing the prefs? (Replace Your Preferences)

     

    How about a new user account? Doe s the file behave differently if you use a brand new user, or a different computer?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 8:16 AM   in reply to molezeen

    Before you do that, try two more things.

     

    1, export all stories as ID tagged text and palce into a new file.

     

    2, Copy all text and paste into a new file.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 10:11 AM   in reply to molezeen

    molezeen wrote:

     

    • opened the file > exported to IDML > moved content to a new file
    • opened that file > exported to IDML > moved content to a new file

    What does that mean? Did you try doing the two things I suggested, which do not involve .idml in any way?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 10:54 AM   in reply to molezeen

    Tagged text is a way to export text from InDesign and retain formatting information. Place your cursor in a story and go to File > Export... and Tagged Text will appear in the list. Try this with one or two stories to see what happens.

     

    I'm not sure what you mean by moving content, since that's pretty vague and could mean anything from moving pages to copying and pasting frames or copying the content inside the frames and pasteing into new frames in a new file, which is what I asked you to try. The goal is to get the content, without the containers, into a new file for testing.

     

    Since this is the first time you've provided any sort of detail regarding the document structure it's clear that doing the things I asked will be time consuming if done manually. I'm not a scripter, but I suspect that scripts can be written that will automate both tasks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 11:06 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    The other thing that needs to be investigated is your system configuration and what might have changed on May 5.

     

    First, do you have any third-party plugins installed, or a font manager? Second what changes were made to your system around the time that you started having problems? Have you tried using System Restore to go back to an earlier time, say May 1?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 11:36 AM   in reply to molezeen

    You've mentioned talking to "Adobe Technicians" a couple of times now. Do you have a support contract, or are you talking with the outsourced support people in India? If the latter, unless you've managed to get yourself escalated quite a way up the food chain you aren't really talking to an Adobe "technician," but rather someone looking in the knowledgebase and reading from there or from some other script. The odds that this person is an actual user of InDesign, let alone a skilled user or troubleshooter, is pretty slim.

     

    Here on the forum we are all volunteers, some of us with years of practical real world experience with both Adobe products and the hardware and software that the applications run on. I've been a production user of InDesign since version 2.0 was released and I dabble in building and troubleshooting PCs and the Windows OS (though I don't claim to be an expert in the inner workings of Windows). John, who was here earlier, has extensive experience troubleshooting InDesign and is a Linux and Mac OS developer in his spare time, I think. He knows more about the inner workings of ID, I suspect, than anyone not actually on the Adobe payroll. He is probably also our top expeert on Mac system issues, which unfortunately may not be helpful for your Windows system.

     

    The point I am trying to make here is that talking to tech support may not get you good answers, but if you answer our questions here, and follow the directions we give, we actually have an extremely high rate for actual problem solving, many times after a user such as you has tried the Tech Support line without success.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 11:55 AM   in reply to molezeen

    It will only take 15-20 minutes, usually, to find out if System Restore is successful. Odds are good that you've made enough changes that it won't be, but if I were having your issues at this point I'd try it.

     

    Beyond that, you really should try the tagged text and copy paste steps I outlined earlier. If there really is something corrupt about the file it may be tied to the frames themselves and this is another possibility for clearing it. Just do some random samples to see what sort of performance you get.

     

    Might also be worth disconnecting from any network, to isolate the machine for safety, then run MSconfig and turn off all your security software and any other unnecessary startups, then start up again in Diagnostic Mode (just restart from MSconfig) and see if that makes any difference.

     

    Do you have a default printer? Is it local or network, and is it turned on? Does it make a difference if you change to the Adobe PDF printer, if available, or Windows Fax or Microsoft XPS Document Writer as the default?

     

    I think we've been presuming so far that your files are stored locally. Is that really true? Or are you working across a network or on a removeable drive?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 12:09 PM   in reply to molezeen

    OK, so you're pretty good with computers. That helps. I wish I could say I thought that "Tech Support" was ever helpful, but honestly even escalated I'm not sure you ever get to someone who knows what they are doing. I'd be encouraged if someone you talked to asked you to send the file in for examination, but it doesn't sound like that has happened, so I doubt you've reached any one at Quality Assurance yet.

    I will use the word corruption because from my point of view it fits. You are suggesting, and it makes sense, that something (a container, frame, etc.) is holding corrupted or corrupting data that is causing this problem. (In Word, for example, the ¶ and section breaks hold formatting information; when the formatting gets corrupted, that corruption is generally held in one of those. Find the right one and it usually removes the problems.  And regarding Word, the word used is "corruption.") That it happened to two unrelated files (we all suffer from the post hoc ergo proper hoc syndrome) may be coincidence. 

    That's it, exactly.  Most file "corruption" in ID is either so serious that file is unopenable, or it responds to cleaning via export. That John and I both started by saying we didn't see evidence of corruption simple means your problem is very atypical. The export method is really a side-effect benefit, not an intended consequence of exporting to interchange. In my experience, .inx (the older format) was more reliable as a cleaner than .idml, and given a choice, that's the one I pick. Do you think you've used any features in the file that would be lost by exporting all the way  back to CS3 and .inx? Do you have CS4 availble? If not, I'd be willing to try that for you and see what happens.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 12:41 PM   in reply to molezeen

    molezeen wrote:

     

    I was asked to upload a file for test.  That represents two of the "we'll call you back" promises never kept.  The other file that "corrupted first" came from a Word file I flowed into an InDesign file. So the process of adding text was completely different between the two; but both have the exact same problems.

    Not cool. Did you get a name or a case number?

     

    I have some limited contacts at Adobe, so I'll send some emails and see if I can get someone to follow through with you.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 20, 2012 10:30 AM   in reply to molezeen

    I don't know if this free script from Rorohiko.com works in CS5.5, but if it does it can automate threading for you: http://www.rorohiko.com/wordpress/indesign-downloads/textstitch/

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2012 8:02 AM   in reply to molezeen

    molezeen wrote:

     

    So manipulating the text itself, as has been suggested, would not, in this case, do anything.  Reinstalling InDesign was also not helpful--except that it would rule out a "corrupted" installation.

    Actually, that statement is probably not true. Moving the text, without moving the pages, would leave behind the old master pages.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2012 8:32 AM   in reply to molezeen

    Who suggested writing a new book?

     

    Obviously there is something corrupting the master pages, and that's not something I can identify. If that something is in some way related to the OCR process re-doing the OCR would not be a good way to try to solve the problem. It's far less likely that the problem is something fundamental to text handling (though not impossible) so importing tagged text, or copying and pasting text, into a fresh document is likely to work UNLESS there is actually some problem in the text itself that is being transferred. Since tagged text is basically ASCII, there's not a lot that can get moved that way. Copy and paste of formatted text could bring problems, pasting without formatting would be less likely to do that.

     

    If a new file then becomes damaged when working with clean text, that looks a lot like a localized configuration problem (this is the sort of bug, if truly a bug, that would have been caught in testing if it happened in the general case). That could be either some third party plugin or other program causing a conflict, or it could, in fact, be a bug that is triggered only under the very specific circumstances present in your work. Those do happen. Either scenario can be very difficult to troubleshoot.

     

    I hope the team gets back to you. I expect they may ask you to run some diagnostic tools and collect a few logs to help track this down.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2012 8:58 AM   in reply to molezeen

    I understand your problem and frustration completely. I really do hope you get some help from the engineers.

     
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  • John Hawkinson
    5,572 posts
    Jun 25, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2012 8:58 AM   in reply to molezeen

    I haven't had a chance to read this thread in detail, but are your multiple corrupt documents sharing something in common? Did they originate from a common template? Were master pages copied from one to another. Was one file used as the basis for another?

     

    Have you been able to reduce the corruption down to a minimal document?

     

    I'll try to review this later today and see if I have any more useful insight beyond being grumpy about the version numbers (sorry about that).

     
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  • John Hawkinson
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    Jun 25, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2012 6:05 PM   in reply to molezeen

    OK, so, I finally got a chance to read this through this thread. Can you post a link to one of the problem documents, or email one to me?

    (Sorry, I had thought you had done so earlier, but I realized I just misinterpretted something you said).

     

    Another thing to try, of course, is testing against CS6 (8.0.0.370). CS6 does fix a number of bugs and it's where engineers do development, so it's most likely to get easily fixed in CS6 before CS5.5, and there's a not-insignificant chance that CS6 fixes your problem already.

     

    I think your best bet at this point is to try to isolate the problem and determine what about your documents causes this problem. While getting a new version of InDesign out that fixes your problem is not going to happen quickly (if at all), figuring out how to avoid the problem certainly is doable. After all thousands of people use ID every day and don't see this.

     

    The best start is to get a minimal document that exhibits the problems (as few pages as possible). Once there, exporting it to IDML and opening the IDML in ID to confirm the corruption survives the IDML. If that's the case, then you can unzip the IDML and inspect it (it is human-readable XML) and try to determine what is unique/special about your document.

     

    This might be a long odyssey. Of course, my experience is that putting in the effort is more likely to get you results than letting Adobe Support do it for you, but you might have a different scenario.

     

    I don't want to make excuses for them, but I suspect what's going on is that the support people you are talking to are waiting for the higher-level support people, or even for Engineering, and they don't have good control over the timliness of those other people. But that's not an excuse for giving you callback estimates that are not met -- Adobe seems to have a serious problem with this and I would not give them a free pass for it. It seems to happen all too often.

     

    If you totally get stuck you could try asking for the Noida Duty Manager and see what that gets you (Noida, UP, India is the location of Adobe's support center).

     

    But realistically, I'm not sure that is going to make engineering work any faster. Maybe it'll just make them give you more realistic estimates for calls-back...

     
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  • John Hawkinson
    5,572 posts
    Jun 25, 2009
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    May 21, 2012 8:21 PM   in reply to molezeen

    I understand. Unfortunately it is probably the only way we will able to provide assistance.

    Good luck!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 22, 2012 4:47 AM   in reply to molezeen

    molezeen wrote:

     

    Over the weekend, after uninstalling InDesign, running CS 5 Cleaner and reinstalling it, the file I looked at and reported on had been exported to IDML, openned, then I moved the pages into a new file. That file was again exported as an IDML. Opened, pages moved to a new file.  The resulting file had the same problems. 

    Moving pages is probably counter-productive. I don't know what the names of your pages are, but if you move a page to a new doument that does not have a master with exactly the same name already, ID will move your master page, too, and if that's corrupt you've gained nothing. Likewise, continued export to .idml is probably futile as you've already demonstrated that whatever the problem is survives the process.

     
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