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Manko10
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Problem with color management, exported images too saturated

May 19, 2012 7:19 AM

Hi,

 

I have an image in Photoshop (CS5, Windows 7) which I wanted to export to PDF in order to print it but then I noticed that the colors varied significantly making the result unusable.

The image is composed in AdobeRGB and I'm working on a wide gamut monitor (Dell U2711) which I calibrated and profiled with a Spyder4.

 

In Photoshop the image contains a nice dull light brown but when I open the PSD in Illustator or InDesign or when I export it to PDF and view it in Acrobat there is way too much red in it. Below I have attached an example of how colors look like in Photoshop (left) and the rest of the system (right):

wrong-colors.jpg

(note: this is an AdobeRGB JPEG, so viewing it on a normal gamut monitor might not show as much difference as there actually is)

 

This color mismatch is very extreme and I don't know what's causing the problems. I tried different profiles for my monitor (the one I created with the Spyder, the factory profile from Dell, the standard AdobeRGB profile, no profile at all etc.). While the color obviously changed a little the overall problem still persists: Photoshop shows the nice yellowish brown, all the other applications show a very reddish image. The difference is even noticeable quite extremely on my second monitor which is just a normal gamut monitor with a color range of about 73% of sRGB.

I also tried exporting it to a flat JPEG with no embedded profiles which makes the result a little better but the colors are still not accurate at all. This is very confusing as I don't know what the problem is and I also don't know if it's just Photoshop displaying wrong colors or if all the other applications just do bad color management.

 

It would be great if you could help me here.

Thanks.

 

 

P.S. This issue might be related to this thread http://forums.adobe.com/message/4178572#4178572 although I couldn't find any working solution there.

 

P.P.S. Opening the exported image/PDF in Photoshop, produces the desired colors again, so it's not a weird conversion causing the issues.

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 8:15 AM   in reply to Manko10

    1. Make sure the image has its color profile embedded. The screen shot below shows one way to check this and this menu is available in most color managed Adobe programs.

    http://forums.adobe.com/servlet/JiveServlet/downloadImage/2-3549763-61576/426-183/LowerLeft.jpg

     

    2. Make sure your monitor profile created with the Spyder is installed properly in your system. On Windows you can check this by using the Color Management control panel. In the Devices tab, your monitor profile is listed with its name ending with the word (default). You can also check the monitor profile being used with the color settings of the Adobe color managed programs. In the Working Spaces section of the Color Settings the RGB menu will list the name of the monitor color profile as Monitor RGB followed by the name of the color profile file of the monitor.

     

    when the above two conditions are met your image should display consistently in all  Adobe color managed programs. The only exception is if you have soft proofing on with another color space (profile) - so, when comparing images make sure Proof Colors is off from the View menu. Soft Proofing if used will last only during a session, so when the program starts it is always off.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 9:12 AM   in reply to Manko10

    Manko10 wrote:

     

    ...

    You can also check the monitor profile being used with the color settings of the Adobe color managed programs. In the Working Spaces section of the Color Settings the RGB menu will list the name of the monitor color profile as Monitor RGB followed by the name of the color profile file of the monitor.

    Where do I find that? I don't have an English PS version. Which RGB menu do you mean?

    From the Edit menu, choose Color Settings. In the window that opens go to the Working Spaces section and click on its RGB menu. You may need to scroll up to see the Monitor RGB followed by the name of the monitor profile being used.

     

    To make the troubleshooting easier, please, make and post screen shots of:

    the same menu I showed with the image in my first post, showing the color profile of the image being used in Photoshop and Illustrator

    also screen shots of the Color Settings window of Photoshop and Illustrator.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 10:10 AM   in reply to Manko10
    ...

     

    document profile ps.jpg

     

    document profile ai.jpg

     

    ...

    Photoshop and Illustrator are using two entirely different color spaces and even color models. Photoshop is using RGB color model with AdobeRGB color space and Illustrator is using CMYK color model with ISO Coated v2 color space. Make sure both programs display Adobe RGB for the document profile in those menus. This also means that you have to change the color mode of your document in Illustrator to RGB from File > Document color mode before placing your image in Illustrator, If you do it after the image is placed it won't help.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 10:38 AM   in reply to Manko10

    Can  you please show a screen shot with the actual image in both programs Illustrator and Photoshop side by side and the bottom left of the image windows showing that both documents are with Adobe RGB color space like this:

    Capture.JPG

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 10:56 AM   in reply to Manko10

    Manko10 wrote:

     

    You don't believe it, do you?

    ..

    I believe you, but you may not be aware of things that the screen shots shows and i can also measure color values if necessary. Before we move on the next step monitor profile troubleshooting, I want to make sure how the file arrived in Photoshop and Illustrator. It will be very helpfull if you describe the exact steps of how the file was opened in Photoshop and Illustrator. Also what is the original color profile if any of the file. This can be checked quickly in Bridge by checking the Metadata Tab > File Properties section.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 11:02 AM   in reply to emil emil

    Is this also happening with all images or only with that one?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 11:25 AM   in reply to Manko10

    So, the original file on the hard drive before using it in Photoshop or Illustrator is a .psd file right? Can you describe exactly how the image arrives in Illustrator. Do you open with File > Open or first you create a document and then File > Place or you use Copy/Paste from Photoshop? With any of these do you get any warning messages or other dialog boxes regarding color profile mismatches?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 11:35 AM   in reply to Manko10

    I don't have any better troubleshooting steps to provide than emil emil, but let me just say that in my experience things like this are always the monitor profile. Well, most of the time at any rate. I'd concentrate on that.

     

    The thread you referenced in your first post actually did get resolved: his Mac didn't load the correct profile for the second monitor.

     

    I noticed one thing you wrote above:

    (the profile in Color Settings > Monitor RGB is...) the Spyder profile I created for the integrated notebook monitor. But that's not actually the one Photoshop is using for the external wide gamut monitor. But I proved it's using the right profile anyway as described in my last posting by temporarily changing it to a wrong profile in the Windows Color Management options.

    That doesn't prove it's using the right profile, just a different one.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 11:40 AM   in reply to Manko10

    yeah, the problem is your monitor profile. You mentioned that you are using a laptop and the Monitor RGB from the RGB menu in the Color Settings is showing the monitor profile of the laptop screen and not the u2711 profile? If so, try making u2711 the main monitor using the system to make its profile name shows next to the Monitor RGB menu in the Color Settings. Aslo try temporarily to remove the monitor profile of your laptop screen to make sure the programs for some reason are not confusing monitor profiles

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 11:43 AM   in reply to Manko10

    Well, when I assign a wrong profile to the external monitor and the color changes (only on that monitor) and then reassign the correct profile and the color changes again this should be prove enough.

     

    Again: that doesn't prove it's using the right profile.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 11:48 AM   in reply to Manko10

    Did you make that last test using Illustrator too? So far from all you said it appears that the monitor profile is OK because Windows Explorer, Photo Viewer, and Bridge are using the same monitor profile like Photoshop, but Illustrator, InDesign, and Acrobat may be are using your laptop screen color profile confusing it for u2711. That's why I'm asking you to remove your laptop color profile to force and make sure all programs are using the same monitor profile.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 12:22 PM   in reply to Manko10

    Manko10 wrote:

     

    What is the system wide default profile on your machine? Mine is "sRGB virtual device model profile"

    Never mind that. It's just what the system defaults to if no other profile is present or assigned. This is the one that matters:

    cm.png

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 12:25 PM   in reply to Manko10

    If I were you I'd just connect the Dell and recalibrate. This should set all necessary associations. Then see what it looks like.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 12:37 PM   in reply to Manko10

    The defaults are all the same for all with the default Windows installation and you can change them if you like but as D Fosse said, they don't make any difference if you have a monitor profile assigned as default in the Devices tab. If  you remove all profiles from the Devices tab then these defaults will be used by the color managed  programs. Non-color managed programs are not affected by any of this.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 19, 2012 1:41 PM   in reply to Manko10

    Manko10 wrote:

     

    I thought it might affect how Windows handles images without assigned profiles internally such as the desktop wallpaper.

    Windows itself has no color management, it just makes profiles available for applications (including some, but not all, native Windows apps). All color management is application-level, not OS-level.

     
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