I have spoke with several Adobe customer care reps and tech support. NONE of them have been able to answer even the most basic questions about the new Adobe Creative Cloud and how the newest software (including Muse) impacts web designer/developers who have web projects that are delivered to clients.
Here's the issue:
I create websites in Dreamweaver and have trained my clients to use Adobe Contribute to maintain the content on their sites. This has been working very well for a long time.
I recently signed up with Creative Cloud and am starting to use the new CS6 products (Dreamweaver CS6, etc.). But there is no Contribute CS6.
When I called to ask, I was told that "Contribute is being dropped and will be replaced with Muse." I was also told that any NEW sites I create with Dreamweaver CS6 will not work with clients using Contribute CS5 (or 4 or 3). So now what?!?!
One tech support person suggested that I "give all of your new clients your login/password to your Cloud account" so that they'll be able to use MUSE to update their new sites. When I asked about security, and whether with my credentials they would have access to ALL of my content in the cloud, including other client work, they said YES. (Is this just about the most stupid suggestion you've heard?!)
This is confusing at best, and here's why:
Questions that I still do not have answers for (since no one at Adobe seems to have a clue!)
I need support and clarification.
Thank you!
Tim Liszt
LisZt Design | Claritas Consortium
503.504.0869
1. No Muse is not a substitute for Contribute, Business Catalyst is what Adobe will hope to take that role. This is their hosted CMS solution. I compare Muse to what Elements is in a sense to Photoshop. It is for the non-professional to setup a website without coding. It is not a content manager.
2. You can host a site wherever you want to host a site. If you go with BC, then you host it with Adobe.
3. No.
4. Is this a question?
5. Not a strength of Adobe and one of my complaints about the "Cloud" that no support is included so you are not paying for any better level of support. There was an open letter from Adobe VP Lambert Walsh ( http://blogs.adobe.com/captivate/2009/08/open_letter_to_our_customers_ o.html ), who by the way is still with the company per his LinkedIn profile ( http://www.linkedin.com/pub/lambert-walsh/2/b8b/123 ) . Maybe you could reach out and let him know there is still an issue.
6. This isn't a question either.
Contribute was a failed experiment by Adobe because it required to have your clients give an investment to not only the hosting but the tool as well. Since Contribute was released, many developers have moved to CMS systems like Drupal, Joomla, Wordpress, Perch, PyroCMS, etc. Then there are solutions like the BC solutions that give you a reselling platform and hosted solution in one so you don't have to get your own hosting as many of us have already done anyways.
Muse is not, and will not be a Contribute replacement. Also, DW CS6 still has the option in the Site setup for Contribute compatibility, but I assume that will only be compatibility with CS5 which was the last version of Contribute released.
I don't see Contribute as a failed experiment. I think it was a fine product for its time and served a need very well while it lasted.
It first shipped in 2002 and it's taken 10 years for Adobe to (rightly) discontinue it. Many have successfully used Contribute in that decade.
It introduced novices to web content authoring where they could click Publish and see instant results online rather than emailing updates to a web developer and waiting hours or days to see the changes online.
The web has clearly moved on to browser based CMS authoring and Adobe is moving with the market (or perhaps trying to pioneer) with its latest offerings (Muse, BC and Cloud).
Thank you for the information.
And my apologies for posing 'comments' as questions. It's been frustrating to have had 3 Adobe Customer Care staff and 2 technicians give me wrong/bad information.
Both tech support staff told me specifically that MUSE was replacing Contribute. And one of them said that I would need to give MY cloud login credentials to future clients so that they could use MUSE to update their sites. (crazy, eh?!)
I'm not clear about your reference to Business Catalyst being a reselling platform and hosted solution in one. What I've read indicates that I can have up to 5 sites hosted through Business Catalyst. But I have many more clients than 5.
Can you point me to where I can learn about:
Thank you. You've been very helpful. Through 5 hours on the phone yesterday, I got the same feedback from Adobe support staff. "We don't know. Don't know what Muse does. If you build a site in Dreamweaver CS6 it will be *incompatible* with Contribute. etc." And no one could explain Business Catalyst and the hosting features.
They re-organized that site a bit. Personally I liked the BC site before the Adobe-fication of it. Easier to read and understand. Now they are calling it a BC Partner Program ( http://www.adobe.com/products/business-catalyst/partners.html ). Wish there was more to show you, but screenshots seem to be at a minimum now. They must be running out of space for images on the server.
BC has it's own CMS which is similar to InContext
http://www.adobe.com/products/business-catalyst/features.html
Business Catalyst Forums/General
http://forums.adobe.com/community/business_catalyst?view=discussions
Business Catalyst/Forums/Content Management
http://forums.adobe.com/community/business_catalyst/content_management _and_modules?view=discussions
Nancy O.
I totally agree with Tim Liszt!
Most of my clients are NOT computer savvy when it comes to websites, nor do they have the time to invest to learn complicated content management. Contribute is easy for them to understand, especially because they can "see" what their website looks like when they make simple alterations like text changes or updating a photo. That's what is (or what was) so great about Contribute. And now it's being discontinued!!??
Well here is more confusion with Adobe:
I just spoke with the "sales" department because I don't know if I want to upgrade to CS6 if I can't use Contribute for my clients. The sales rep (overseas) also told me that any NEW sites I create with Dreamweaver CS6 will NOT work with clients using Contribute 5 (or 4 or 3). To which I replied... "Oh, well... looks like I won't be making a purchase today." Then she transferred me to "tech support" (also, overseas) to get a further detailed answer. Here's what he had to say...
He said Contribute is NOT being discontinued and that Contribute 6 (as a stand alone program) will come out soon. Say what!???? I didn't believe him. He proceeded to tell me that the "sales" people do not have accurate information as they do, and he even spoke with his technical manager to confirm what he was telling me... which he insisted was true. He also said that my client CAN use Contribute 5 to make website changes if I create it with Dreamweaver CS6..... so basically the total opposite of everything Adobe Sales told me.
So there ya go... is it true, or is it not true?
Anyone dare to find out on their own?
And MUSE does NOT replace Contribute?... is it true, or is it not true?
Guess that depends on who you ask, too.
Well according to the Contribute forum, it will live on in the short term as a point product
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4362566
Adobe Contribute is not part of CS6 but it will continue to be available as a point product. The Contribute engineering team will continue to provide updates and enhancements such as compatibility with Firefox, Internet Explorer, Windows 8, Mac OS X, and Microsoft Office and other workflows which are important to Adobe Contribute customers. The future roadmap for Contribute includes support for HTML5 and compatibility with new versions of Adobe Dreamweaver.
- Contribute Team
If true, I'm surprised that Adobe still thinks it's worth investing time and money into it.
It has well and truly had its day and is part of yesterday's web.
It must surely be discontinued soon (assuming that Contribute 6 does, in fact, ship).
If true, I'm surprised that Adobe still thinks it's worth investing time and money into it.
It has well and truly had its day and is part of yesterday's web.
It must surely be discontinued soon (assuming that Contribute 6 does, in fact, ship).
I totally agree, John. I think Contribute users should prepare now for its eventual demise.
Most clients would probably be delighted if they could edit their sites without being tied to Contribute.
Nancy O.
This has been an interesting discussion.
One key frustration is the MISinformation that (trained?) Adobe customer service and tech support staff are giving out. Very frustrating. I've been given very conflicting information.
In response to these advantages:
There are these disadvantages:
I need to know (much) more about the CMS solution that is part of Adobe's Business Catalyst solution. I'm still unclear about how all of these products work together (Dreamweaver, MUSE, CMS on BC).
Currently I have NEW upcoming web projects for clients and want to figure out whether hosting their site at BC will provide them with the tools they need to manage their content. And will this be as easy for them to use as Contribute has been in the past?
It definitely seems that the BC web hosting plans are not as generous as the current hosting company I use for all of my clients (Hostway Global Web Solutions).
Hostway provides *unlimited* monthly traffic and 50 email accounts for $16/month vs.1GB monthlyy bandwidth through BC.
- Maybe no standalone software to purchase, but there's an ongoing monthly cost above/beyond hosting.
Only if you use a subscription solution like Business Catalyst. If you use your own hosting & CMS solution, you won't have this problem.
Get Simple CMS - (open source)
PHP, no database required.
CMS Made Simple - (open source)
PHP & MySql required
Concrete 5 (open source)
PHP & MySql required
Perch (commercial - one time license = $54 per domain)
PHP & MySql required
e107 CMS (open source)
PHP & MySql required
Content Seed - (commercial)
Available in ASP or PHP
no database required.
WebAssist Power CMS (commercial)
PHP & MySql required
http://www.webassist.com/dreamweaver-extensions/powercms-builder/
WordPress
Joomla!
Drupal
Nancy O.
InContext Editing in Business Catalyst works like Contribute. It lets clients make simple content changes (update text, images, links and other content), but in a web browser rather than in a standalone application. You define editable regions in templates and you can set different permissions to edit the regions. Here's some more info:
Training your clients to update their sites with InContext Editing
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/businesscatalyst/articles/training_clients _ice.html
InContext Editing for Business Catalyst administrators
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/businesscatalyst/articles/ice_for_admins.h tml
Thanks.
Charles Nadeau
Looks like InContext Editing will also cost clients more than Contribute (at $50 per month!) since it is no longer a stand alone application. Not a good solution for my clients. And is this a sneaky way to get us to use Adobe's hosting services with Creative Cloud? I don't want to switch hosting companies.
By the way... your first link on "Training your clients" took me to a broken page....
Needed to remove the "http://" after ".html"
Thank you for posting all my questions as well - CS6 Cloud has been sorely disappointing since its implementation. Using online storage is difficult at best since you can't drag and drop folders. Trying to move my business to the cloud is impossible with the current set up. Billing issues abound... and installations of software are tripping over CS5.
In Adobe's effort to get a piece of the pie they perceive to be there, they have really muddied the waters for those of us working with small business clients on tight budgets. After reading all of this posting I still don't know which direction to head. Most attractive so far is HMTL5, CSS3 and Nancy O's suggestion of using Get Simple CMS.
Adobe is very confused. Leaving me even more confused.
Adobe Contribute is not part of CS6 but it will continue to be available as a point product. The Contribute engineering team will continue to provide updates and enhancements such as compatibility with Firefox, Internet Explorer, Windows 8, Mac OS X, and Microsoft Office and other workflows which are important to Adobe Contribute customers. The future roadmap for Contribute includes support for HTML5 and compatibility with new versions of Adobe Dreamweaver.
This is great news. Adobe Contribute is an amazing easy to use and intuitive application, its search engine friendly, secure and practically maintenance free. I recently won my biggest client ever on the basis of Contribute and trust me they are a serious, serious company who have already been down the Wordpress/Joomla/Drupal route (expect the sale soon Adobe).
Clients are to the most part not technical geeks and have little understanding of security. Anyone who hosts websites understands the security risks of open source software and what can happen when its not updated by the client. For example when a new Wordpress patch comes out now I have to manually go though all the sites we have built on that particular platform and check my clients have patched the software, 90% of the time they have not and this is something I can not ignore. I also do this for free as I can't risk a hacked site crashing one of my servers as it screws everybody up on the server.
The other issue that using an open source cms creates is that the client can manage their own plugins/widgets which are not developed to play well together and regularly crash sites (I had an entire video section stop working on a Drupal site recently because another plugin had been updated by a client).
Like doing the CMS updates you can charge for repairing this kind of thing but to be honest its a hassle I don't need and I guess a lot of other people feel the same way.
Business Catalyst is an Adobe hosted solution and does 100% have its place but when you offer hosting and build sites that range from small local businesses to huge companies then you need a solution that slots in anywhere, in my view Contribute does this.
We need a new version of Contribute that will play well with HTML5 and CCS3 (nothing clever we just don't want it screwing the code up) and gives our clients some social media options (like buttons, share icons) and that will do us for a couple of years Adobe, keep up the great work.
And thats my 2 pennies worth.
Cheers
Gary
Adobe Contribute 6.5 is out! Find more on http://blogs.adobe.com/contribute/2012/08/adobe-unveils-contribute-6-5 -with-html5-support.html
Ok, I'm been following this thread for awhile and I'm still not sure about DW CS6 and older Contribute sites. I hope someone here knows...
Can I upgrade myself to DW CS6 and maintain my Contribute sites (that were built in DW CS5.5) and still keep my clients on Contribute 5... without breaking anything?
Historically, I've seen DW upgrades break Contribute sites and I really don't want to deal with that kind of problem right now.
Well, it's strange sometimes the Decisions that Adobe makes... I know they make it to make the company profitable, but of course it hurts people using the product...
I went to give a Joomla! training to some people yesterday and finally, we decided that, for their current need, Contribute was the best solution for them.
They are Dreamweaver developer, but their client wants to be able to do some modifications... They are designers, so they want to use their own design (which was already approved by the client).
Possible solutions:
- Joomla! or WordPress: drawback: pain in the *** to import their design (built in Illustrator, I think); need to learn a new technology...
- BusinessCatalyst: I don't know about their design, but the client already has a host and they have (I don't know if it's going to be on the same site or another one) ASP.NET pages (so, even for Joomla! or WordPress, we would need to make sure it works with their existing server...)
- Contribute: Perfect: they already know Dreamweaver; they can use their own template and simply specify which areas the user can edit; the client keeps his/her current hosting provider/server.
So, I have both Web Premium CS5 and MasterCollection CS6 (well, in fact, Creative Cloud membership) installed on my laptop, so we were able to test it: yes, you can create a site in Dreamweaver CS6 and the user will be able to edit it with Contribute CS5 (or course, the new client will now have the new Contribute 6.5 version, but it was a concern for some of you)...
Will Adobe do like they did with GoLive! 9 (I think): release a new product because it was already near completion and then pull the plug? I don't know... It's just a shame they don't provide it with CS6 (Web Premium, Master Collection or Creative Cloud membership)... One way or the other, less people will use it if it's not included and it WILL at some point disapear (same thing unfortunately for LiveCycle Designer not provided with Acrobat XI anymore...)
P.S. Muse will NEVER replace Contribute (maybe in Adobe's mind a combination of Muse and Business Catalyst will, but not in real facts).
Muse was created for print designers wanting to create a simple site, NOT for people wanting to edit an existing web site... So, the closest is using Business Catalyst (with, maybe, the InContext Editing of Dreamweaver), but I don't like the fact that you must change your hosting provider to use BC...
If they would have kept ICE (InContext Editing) as a seperate product, like it was at first (and even free...), THAT would have replaced Contribute... But now, if you want to use ICE, you need to use it with Business Catalyst... ![]()
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