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AVCHD Videos Stuttering and slow..HELP!!

May 23, 2012 4:41 AM

Hi guys,

 

I'm trying to edit footage taken from a lumix camera shot in AVCHD.

I upgraded my CPU to i7 3770K to handle the beating of the decoding, but still very slow.

This AVCHD files are tough to decode. Stuttering and cracking as it plays back.

Is there a way I can convert it to a faster format for accurate editing?

This one's a guitar track and I need the fingers to sync so its quite an intricate job.

 

Any advice and help appreciated!


Thanks,

Mark

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2012 5:00 AM   in reply to prismshian

    Are you on CS5, 5.5 or CS6?    CS6 AVCHD is broken and you need to transcode it.   CS5 and 5.5 seem to work fine.  There are a couple of other threads on this (at least one started by me).   Adobe have acknowledged a problem and we are awaiting a fix.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2012 5:04 AM   in reply to prismshian

    Then you may want to describe your system more.    I have zero problems playing multiple AVCHD tracks in 5 & 5.5.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2012 6:12 AM   in reply to prismshian

    Sorry for the dealy, had a client meeting....

     

    Quad i7 2600 - 3.4Ghz (over clocking makes no difference, it plays OK at 3.4Ghz)

    16GB 1600 RAM

    Nvidia GTX 570

    1x2TB HDD for OS

    2x2TB as RAID 0 for Video

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2012 6:23 AM   in reply to prismshian

    Oops - I actually meant 3x2TB Raid 0

     

    RAID 0 gives much faster read/write speeds for hard disk. This raid 0 is running at around 245MB/s for reads and 236MB/s for writes and gives ma 6TB of HDD space.  Of course, with RAID 0 you need to keep regular backups because if any one of those drives goes down you lose everything.

     

    However, you don't need a RAID for AVCHD.   Our iMac with a single HDD for OS and data works just fine, Quad i7 3Ghz and 12GB ram.    So, I doubt that your hard disks are the problem.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2012 6:36 AM   in reply to prismshian

    We shoot with AVCHD all the time and (with the exception of the current CS6 problem) have zero problems with playback.  And I do mean zero.  It just plays.

     

    Is this the only video / file you've tried editing?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2012 6:48 AM   in reply to ExactImage

    BTW - I'm assuming (stupid of me I know!) that you've done all the CS5.0 updates?    If not, you SHOULD.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2012 10:21 AM   in reply to prismshian

    Would indicate which hard drives you've have configured as scratch, etc from with inside of PPro?  Adjusting this could have interesting results.  Also, it could be your Nvidia Quadro FX3800 since its technology is a few years old.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2012 11:54 AM   in reply to prismshian

    Do the files play fine in Windows Media Player?

    If so, it shows that the AVCHD decoder in Adobe (which is not the system one) has issues with that particular H.264 stream.

    If not, then there is something wrong with your system. - based on your specs you are WAY above what's needed to play AVCHD.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 24, 2012 3:20 AM   in reply to prismshian

    It's probably worth running through media encoder to transcode to something more suitable for editing if you are still having problems.

     

    CS6 has a very specific problem with AVCHD on the 6.0 release so don't hold your breath.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 24, 2012 10:29 AM   in reply to ExactImage

    This thread from a couple of days ago discusses digital intermediates that may be of use to you...

     

    http://forums.adobe.com/message/4417176#4417176

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 24, 2012 10:37 AM   in reply to Rallymax-forum

    No problems with AVCHD on my system.

     

    Early Mac Pro 2008 3,1

    2 - 3.4 Xeons

    24 GB ram

    Quadro 4000- Really helps out with playback!

    Maxx Digital raid array (750MB/sec.)

    Lion 10.7.4        

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 24, 2012 10:39 AM   in reply to lasvideo

    lasvideo wrote:

     

    No problems with AVCHD on my system.

     

    Early Mac Pro 2008 3,1

    2 - 3.4 Xeons

    24 GB ram

    Quadro 4000- Really helps out with playback!

    Maxx Digital raid array (750MB/sec.)

    Lion 10.7.4        

    Premiere Pro version?

     

    How long are your clips ?

     

    What is your longest clip in a sequence? 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 24, 2012 10:45 AM   in reply to ExactImage

    Premiere Pro version?  CS6

     

    How long are your clips ? Its a short form edited piece with clips that vary from 1 to  20 seconds.

     

    What is your longest clip in a sequence?  20 seconds, but only one or two of these.. Way to long to stay on one shot for this project.

     

    Your choice of graphics card, read/write speed of your external raid array and processor speed really make a big difference with AVCHD. At least that has been my experience.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 24, 2012 10:50 AM   in reply to lasvideo

    lasvideo wrote:

     

    Premiere Pro version?  CS6

     

    How long are your clips ? Its a short form edited piece with clips that vary from 1 to  20 seconds.

     

    What is your longest clip in a sequence?  20 seconds, but only one or two of these.. Way to long to stay on one shot for this project.

     

    Your choice of graphics card, read/write speed of your external raid array and processor speed really make a big difference with AVCHD. At least that has been my experience.

    Forgive me, but I think you may have missed the cause of the problem.   There is no problem with AVCHD in short clips. 

     

    The problem is when you are dealing with long / spanned clips, such as from a live event where the recording could be as much as 30, 60 even 90 or more minutes (e.g. a wedding ceremony, speeches, a seminar presentation etc).   This causes AVCHD to span several 4GB files and CS6 seems to have to read all of the files from the start each time it wants to access even a small portion in the last span file.   20 Second files are not spanned and don't have a problem.

     

    Try making your own 30 minute recording (one clip) and import that.  Try to play from the start for a few seconds, then stop and jump to 20 minutes in and you will see the problem.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 24, 2012 10:53 AM   in reply to ExactImage

    I see. I did miss that. My apologies. Since I dont work on projects like that I have not experienced that issue.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 13, 2012 9:39 PM   in reply to prismshian

    I actually have the same kind of issue with AVCHD in PP 5.5.

     

    Until now, i was working with DSLR and XF MPG2 files natively flawlessly.

    Just got a couple new B cam (Canon XA 10) and the playback in PP is crappy.

     

    (BTW, this is not Hardware related, i work on a dedicated video editing station, i7, 24gb , GTX 570, 12XR3 w/Areca controller, Black Viper configuration...)

     

    - Of course, the source files play flawlessly using any video player like VLC, Gom, Media Player, Quicktime...

    - I tried every different way to import the files from the card, a local disk, full directory.... but the source file and sequence playback show the same kind of flikering / artifact / stutter from time to time. The problem doen't show at the same time of the playback , proving it is not something wrong within the file itself.

    - this doesn't show when i export through Media Encoder (thanks god!)

     

    I did a lot of digging on the forum, but found really few solutions.

    Encoding the files to ProRes or equivalent prior editing is of course out of the question.

     

    Does anyone had this kind of problem ?

    CS6 seems to be buggy with AVCHD too, that's a bummer for such a fairly common format.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 3:12 AM   in reply to prismshian

    It is not extreme to say that this is a major problem, i mean AVCHD is really common in low-middle class pro cameras.

     

    I hope they fix this in CS6 as soon as possible (there is some kind of problem with MTS files), i will upgrade then

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 4:02 AM   in reply to Rishaar

    Slight correction:

     

    i mean AVCHD is really common in low-middle class pro cameras.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 4:18 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Harm, i have been following your advices for months and glad i did, my editing station is really good and i am really gratefull.

     

    But this time i have to disagree, i stand my point regarding AVCHD camera.

    Sony FS100, HXR-NX5, HDR-AX200 are really common in small productions. mostly news oriented , at least in Japan where i live and work.

    Not to mention the highly anticipated FS700 to come this summer...

     

    I am not talking Arri or Red of course, but those are still low & middle class Pro camera never the less. Maybe I sould have add "ENG"

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 4:33 AM   in reply to Rishaar

    IMO AVCHD is consumer and at best prosumer level, like the NX5, but 'pro' is at least XDCAM-HD, AVC-Intra 100, MXF 50, or even better like RED, Epic, Arri. Of course you can have another opinion and completely disagree with me, but that is my perception of 'pro'. I tend to follow the BBC rules of 'pro' being at least 4:2:2 format and at least 50 Mb/s data rate. So that also excludes the XDCAM EX series from being pro in their standard configuration, but rather prosumer level in my eyes.

     

    But, heck, what is 'pro'? It may mean one thing to some and a completely different thing to others. There was a time when I called every camera with a weight of less than 1.5 KG consumer, between 1.5 and 3.0 KG prosumer and over 3.0 KG professional. That of course is a real shortcut, but you grasp my meaning I hope.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 5:01 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Ok, you are right, and i agree AVCHD isn't a good format to start with.

    The 'Pro' level here is actually pretty low (except NHK standards) you would be amazed...

     

    But it shouldn't be a problem for such a powerfull software as PP to deal with such a consumer level format, it is so all over the place in camcorders and digital cameras too. That is what is bugging me here...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 10:57 AM   in reply to prismshian

    Mark,

     

    From the size of your SATA II drives I suspect they are years old and not a good "balance" for the rest of your build.

     

    Bigger and newer drives (SATA II or III doesn't matter too much, but cache size and size of drive do) are WAY faster.

     

    Also, try checking the box (hard drive properties, policies tab) "turn off windows write-cache buffer flushing on the device" and turning drive indexing (another Windows performance sucking default) off if you have not done so already.

     

    On a different note, do you have any third party filters loaded? I've seen magic bullet projects give user's here at the forum issues and it seems to be related to some filters not being able to access all cores (and hyperthreads) from your cpu.

     

    Regards,

     

    Jim

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 19, 2012 9:51 AM   in reply to JEShort01

    Let me chime in here and say I'm having either the same problem or a darn similar one. My hardware is pretty good (very good for an iMac):

     

    • Quad-core 3.4GHz i7
    • 16gb RAM
    • AMD Radeon HD 6970M 2048 MB graphics

     

    I'm running CS6 on OSX Mountain Lion and capture presentation for a non-profit I work with where the session length is typically 90-120 minutes. I have a higher-end consumer video camera that records the full length video in AVCHD and then I use my Canon 5dMII to take shorter clips (audience questions and speaker close-ups). In any event, the performance with the AVCHD is aweful. Almost unusable. Whereas the higher bandwidth Canon video is absolutely fine.

     

    I'd love to know if anyone has identified an effective way to work with AVCHD (longer clips anyway ... as that seems to be part of the problem) inside of CS6. I'd also be interested if anyone thinks that transcoding the AVCHD to something else before editing is the right answer and if so what codec do they recommend?

     

    Ken

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 19, 2012 10:05 AM   in reply to kensnyder68

    I'd love to know if anyone has identified an effective way to work with AVCHD (longer clips anyway ... as that seems to be part of the problem) inside of CS6. I'd also be interested if anyone thinks that transcoding the AVCHD to something else before editing is the right answer and if so what codec do they recommend?

     

    Ken

    It seems that a high percentage of the time you can ingest the AVCHD footage using Prelude and have it transcode it for you prior to sending it to Premiere Pro.  Now, I can't be specific, I did some tests then got very busy and it's going to be a while before I can get back to them, but I have some clips that work fine in Prelude but not in Premiere Pro, or indeed Media Encoder (which is odd, since Prelude is sending to Media Encoder to do the transcode!).

     

    What you transcode them to is entirely up to you    Lots of people love ProRes, others like DNxHD, others say convert to P2 AVCIntra and so it goes.   Choose one and go with it.  If you're happy with the results stick with it, it you're not, change.

     

    The disadvantage of ProRes and DNxHD is that they use the Quicktime wrapper that Adobe still bridges to via a 32 bit wrapper.  Some poeple think this is a problem, I've found it not to be a problem (on the Mac at least).  The advantage of transcoding to something that is considered 'native' means that Premiere Pro should be able to use it's 64 bit code (for what that's worth) to decode and play it.

     

    Frankly, I'm so dissapointed by Adobe's stance on this problem.  They 'buy' the codec from a 3rd party so are saying it's someone else's fault.  That may well be, but why haven't Adobe obtained a 'fix' from the codec company?  Are we to beleive that some one is on the phone every day to the supplier asking where the fix is, and that the fix will come as a CS6.0.x fix, or are they going to wait for a paid upgrade (which will upset a lotof people) ?    Do they think that they have managed to weather the storm of compaints and are nopw able to sweep it under the carpet?  Who knows?  

     

    What I do know is that it's caused me to look elsewhere and frankly if they don't get this fixed very soon then I will be abandoning the Premiere Pro platform because it doesn't do what it claims to do, i.e. edit my AVCHD natively.

     

    C'mon Adobe, step up to the plate here and give us a fix.  It's been 7 or 8 months now!  How much longer do we need to put up with this nonsense?  Other apps, including FCPX and earlier versions of Premiere Pro work fine with the same media.  Why is this so hard to make work?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 19, 2012 10:26 AM   in reply to ExactImage

    That is pretty shabby Adobe. This product costs way too much to ignore such an adopted standard as AVCHD!

     

    @ExactImage, I thought I'd try your suggestion of using Prelude to ingest the content. I've never used it before ... don't even really know what it is ... but it's installed. I launched it and it immediately crashed. I tried again. It crashed again. Jesus. Well I don't have time for this right now.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 19, 2012 2:24 PM   in reply to kensnyder68

    don't know if this will help you, Todd (adobe) posted a work around for Nikon DLSR footage that is saved in a MOV wrapper.  As I recall, he suggested that you rename the file extension to MPG.  Apparently, if its a MOV wrapper, Premiere tries to use the 32 bit quicktime engine to work with it, but if you change the file extension, the file is apparently processed using a 64 bit codec.  I've done this and the playback is indeed much smoother.  Find his thread for the details, I've described this from memory.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 11:46 AM   in reply to SFL46

    Well I'm back with a new video camera but a similar problem. This time the brand new Canon Legria HF G25. Very nice consumer video camera but unfortunately it doesn't play nicely with Premiere ...

     

    • Fist off the video is fine and runs without issue using Quicktime player
    • In Premiere it loads he first frame of the video and then plays the audio
    • Moving to other points in the movie seems to throw it off completely and it eventually ends up just crashing Premiere
    • I've tried this with a MBP-Retina w/ 16gb RAM and an iMac (also 16gb RAM). Same effect in both cases.

     

    @SFL46, I did try your proxied suggestion of renaming the file from .MOV to .MPG but it had no better performance. Finally, I thought maybe I would transcode the .MOV file to the Vimeo HD 1080p-25 setting that is likely going to be my target platform and hopefully be able to work with it in that format without issue. Sadly it appears Adoabe Media Encoder also crashes trying to transcode it.

     

    Any help would be greatly appreciated ... I'm desperately in need of a solution as this work is my first "paid for" work and I seem to have my footage completely locked up. :^(

     

    VIDEO META:

    - H.264, 1,920 x 1080 AAC, 48000 Hz, Stereo

    - FPS 25

    - Data Size: 13.54 GB (running length just under 2 hours)

    - Data Rate: 15.90 Mbit/s

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 3:32 PM   in reply to kensnyder68

    Download the trial program of a competitor and see if it handles the footage.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 4:06 PM   in reply to Film Professor

    I am trying to find a competitor's transcoding software so I can work within Premiere. So far HandBrake and RoadMovie have been fails. I would love to stick it to Adobe for this grievous foul but I'm too invested in their software to move away without serious attempts to get it to work.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 4:12 PM   in reply to kensnyder68

    You might be able to finish work within the thirty day trial and then use Adobe CC and see if it fixes the problem.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 4:30 PM   in reply to kensnyder68

    kensnyder68 wrote:

     

    I am trying to find a competitor's transcoding software so I can work within Premiere. So far HandBrake and RoadMovie have been fails. I would love to stick it to Adobe for this grievous foul but I'm too invested in their software to move away without serious attempts to get it to work.

     

    Since Handbrake doesn't read it I conclude there is something non standard in the MOV container. I guess Canon only tested against the QuickTime Player. I would see if you can re-wrap it with ffmpeg since it's the most tolerant of all those sorts of programs.

     

    ffmpeg -i input.mov -acodec copy -vcodec copy output.mp4

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 7, 2013 4:31 PM   in reply to Film Professor

    Film Professor wrote:

     

    You might be able to finish work within the thirty day trial and then use Adobe CC and see if it fixes the problem.

     

    Um I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure that a _TRIAL_ is for evaluation purposes only. Any finished product that is then used would be a violation of that agreement.

     
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