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Selecting and Dragging multiple clips - CS6 Sniper mode

May 23, 2012 8:20 AM

With the introduction of ability to select Edit Points, now it's inconvenient to drag multiple selected clips or add clips to selection because in some cases - depending on timeline zoom state and/or clip duration. The edit points are altered instead of the clips, that behaviour drives me nuts. It leads to a necessity to do one of the following actions before selecting and/or dragging multiple clips with comfort:

  • sniper mode - put the cursor over a place in the selection where the cursor will not indicate Edit Point trimming mode.
  • to avoid loosing selection when using sniper mode - Group the clips after adding every clip to selection and/or after a dragging operation
  • dynamically change zoom state so that you will not have to use sniper mode
  • use copy/cut/paste - may involve a necessity to do additional pre-pasting steps

 

IMHO, this behaviour should be rethinked.

 

How fast it was in CS5.5 and older versions:

 

Please, Premiere Pro Programming Team, especially Tim Gogolin, Steve Hoeg, Peter Lee, Gerry Miller, James Mork, Vivek Neelamegam, Axel Schildan, Jerry Scoggins, Sven Skwirblies, Tod Snook, Jesse Zibble, rethink the behaviour of selecting and dragging clips. Start giving links to beta-versions to other editors too, not only to editors like Philip Bloom.

 

Selecting edit points is sometimes helpful and sometimes distracting.

To get the best of two worlds (CS6 edit points vs. CS5.5 and older) - a switch could be added to Keyboard Shortcuts list, like the "hidden" Add Clip Marker shortcut.

Let's name it "Application > Sequence > Select Edit Points".

 

When Shift- or Shift+Alt- key is pressed and some Clip is selected, clicking on an edit point of another clip should add a clip to selection in the same way as previous versions of Premiere Pro did:

 

To drag clips in legacy sniper-free mode only a switch can help. Let's name it "Application > Sequence > Select Edit Points when Multiple Clips are Selected".

To add comfort to the editing process - selecting/dragging multiple clips - additional switches cannot be avoided. Additionally you may add an option to the Preferences > Trim:

  • Allow Selection tool to choose Roll and Ripple trims without modifier key
  • Allow Selection tool to select Edit Points while multiple Clips are selected

 

 

Feature Request/Bug Report Form

  ******BUG******

Concise problem statement:Inconveniences when selecting and dragging multiple clips

Steps to reproduce bug:

1.Create a Selection of multiple clips with Shift+Click

2.Try to drag the clips

Results:With the introduction of ability to select Edit Points, in some cases (depends on timeline zoom state and/or clip duration) now it's inconvenient to select and drag multiple selected clips because the edit points are selected instead of the clips

Expected results:Clips should be selected/dragged like in CS5.5 and older

Link: https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 23, 2012 8:48 AM   in reply to Steven Pribilinskiy

    I have to admit, I've seen my own work flow slowed to a degree with this new timeline trimming feature.  It is more difficult to use the mouse for actions that were simple before.

     
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    May 23, 2012 8:53 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    I dont like it either.

    I am a mouse person.

    Adobe is pussing towards just using the keyboard shortcuts.

     
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    May 23, 2012 8:58 AM   in reply to Ann Bens

    I went to NLE school in Hollywood in the 90's. Their mantra was, "never touch the mouse." I rather like the fact that I need to touch the mouse much less in CS6, but this is my personal opinion and the way I was trained.

     
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    May 23, 2012 9:12 AM   in reply to Kevin Monahan

    I suppose you can't please everybody.

     
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    May 23, 2012 11:54 AM   in reply to Steven Pribilinskiy

    Keep at it, Steven. I'm sure you'll gain more speed as you fly with more keyboard shortcuts!

     
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    May 23, 2012 11:57 AM   in reply to Kevin Monahan

    For myself, I'm not sure why so many editors wanted this feature.  Seems a LOT quicker, and more accurate, to just drag the ends/edit point of a clip than to use JKL for the same purpose.

     
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    May 23, 2012 12:57 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim Simon wrote:

     

    For myself, I'm not sure why so many editors wanted this feature.  Seems a LOT quicker, and more accurate, to just drag the ends/edit point of a clip than to use JKL for the same purpose.

     

    We found that editors do want a more keyboard driven workflow. Perhaps they felt like I did? Any time I'm forced to pick up the mouse, I feel that my workflow has slowed down. Before CS6, you were pretty much forced to use the mouse for many operations that are keyboard driven in other NLEs.

     

    Dragging is pretty fast, but now I can quickly shuttle to my Out point in trim mode, let go of the L key, toggle to the incoming side, shuttle to the In point, press the down arrow and now I'm on my next edit. Rinse and repeat. It's very fast. Dynamic trimming can also be used to loop an edit point back and forth, while you add and subract frames as you loop.

     

    I know it may take time to get used to, but I found that I can do three operations with keyboard shortcuts in the same time as one mouse driven operation.

     
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    May 23, 2012 1:00 PM   in reply to Steven Pribilinskiy

    Steven Pribilinskiy wrote:

     

    Believe me, keyboard is my favorite device, almost all of the functions have an assigned keyboard shortcut, and the workspace in CS6 is now very clean. Furthermore, apart from the factory shortcuts, I have a bunch of macro scripts to drive Premiere editing faster.

     

    I have scripts, which detects timeline and playhead location in order to select a clip at the playhead.

    ^PgUp::udfPPro_SelectClip("Video")

    ^PgDn::udfPPro_SelectClip("Audio")

    it's limited to selecting Video/Audio clip on the 1st track only, but in most cases that is enogh.

    In many cases I work standing like a DJ

     

    However, when you need to shuffle clips it's just faster to use Mouse. There's even no need to make a benchmark video, it's obvious.

     

    That's pretty cool. Glad you are such a keyboard scientist! You know many editors stand up as they edit, as they used to with the Moviola. Walter Murch stands and he's my personal fave editor.
    Shuffling clips? That might be one thing that is hard to do with keyboard shortcuts. Let me look into that.

     
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    May 23, 2012 3:01 PM   in reply to Kevin Monahan

    I can do three operations with keyboard shortcuts in the same time as one mouse driven operation.

     

    I'd still bet that someone used to trimming with the mouse can get the job done faster (using the old version, of course, as trimming with the mouse has been somewhat interfered with while adding the new keyboard method.).

     
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    May 24, 2012 3:42 PM   in reply to Kevin Monahan

    I can respect that people who started on NLEs in the early days are more keyboard oriented, but a lot of people learning today are primarily mouse editors.  I've been doing this for about ten years, so I'm half keyboard/half mouse.  I'm all in favor of adding new options to Premiere, but not at all in favor of seeing pre-existing methods vanish.  Sure, you had more users ask for a keyboard driven workflow, but I doubt you were getting a lot of messages telling you the way it already worked was fine for most people.  That's just the nature of feedback.

     

    Absolutely agree with Steven's icon suggestion.  That would definitely benefit both user preferences.

     
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    May 24, 2012 8:11 PM   in reply to Kevin Monahan

    With all due respect Kevin, nobody at Adobe has the right to change a program SO drastically.  I am also a mouse person, and am MUCH faster using the mouse, vs the keyboard. 

     

    When people have invested YEARS into a program like Adobe, they get used to things, how things work, the feel of a program.  I really don't see how you all can just change it on a whim.  IF you are going to do this, BOTH methods should still work.  You cannot just stop the way people are used to editing.  You can't just decide to change a program so drastically, that it doesn't feel like a program we have grown to love over many long years.  If Adobe on a whole is changing things, just because a few people in your company voice opinions like I've quoted below, it's not the way to go.  Adobe should be really putting feelers out there, and seeing how people are really using the program.  Things should be getting easier, more powerful, sure that's natural, but you can't just decide to remove things that mouse users do every day. :-(

     

    Upgrading a program, and changing it to this degree, are two different things in my book.  I have not yet upgraded, but it is very scary - the things I'm seeing.  For one, way way too many bugs.  The amount of bugs on so many boards being reported are just beyond comprehension. 

     

    And a final note, I for one, am very glad Steven is posting these videos ( I'd like to hear him go through steps though - just watching the video with no audio of what he is doing is not so great, however after watching some of his posts, he's knows what he's doing, and has a good head to think with )

     

    I mostly read posts, but I thought I would voice my opinion, if none of us speak up, nothing will get changed.  I'm really hoping that Adobe implements some change in the next revision .5 or whatever it will be called.  Reading posts like this one are really depressing.  Did you watch Steven's video on a simple task as moving multiple clips around on a timeline ?  Doing this with a mouse just isn't going to work for many, removing simple tasks by way of using a mouse would stop me from upgrading.

     

    Please address this in upcoming updates.

     

    Dave.

     

    Kevin Monahan wrote:

     

    I went to NLE school in Hollywood in the 90's. Their mantra was, "never touch the mouse." I rather like the fact that I need to touch the mouse much less in CS6, but this is my personal opinion and the way I was trained.

     
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    May 24, 2012 10:21 PM   in reply to David Zeno

    For one, way way too many bugs.

     

    I've only seen maybe two or three genuine bugs reported so far.  I think most of what you're seeing is people opening old projects that don't translate perfectly, people new to the program who don't yet know how to work it, people who have a local, system level issue that isn't reproducible across multiple systems, and people who use Macs.

     

    For the most part, CS6 has been very stable and very usable on two separate Windows machines.

     
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