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InDesign CS6 resolution for pixel documents not the same

May 7, 2012 10:41 AM

Tags: #resolution #indesign #pixel #cs6
  Latest reply: Rob Day, Feb 7, 2014 6:02 AM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2012 7:48 AM   in reply to John Hawkinson

    @ John,

     

    I may have posted the script, but I was pretty clear, I think, that you get the blame (or credit) for writing it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2012 7:54 AM   in reply to Rob Day

    @ Rob,

     

    I'm no scripter. You'll have to wait for John to answer that one.

     
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  • John Hawkinson
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    Jun 25, 2009
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    May 17, 2012 8:00 AM   in reply to Rob Day

    I'm no scripter. You'll have to wait for John to answer that one.

    Hmm, it wasn't clear to me that there was a question for me, let me see:

     

     

    Is this a case where there's a preference hook available via scripting, that's not in the GUI (haven't installed CS6 yet)?

    Yes. that is it exactly.

     

    I have to agree  this seems like a major problem. If the solution exists in the scripting dictionary it  sounds like the preference got left out and someone needs to put it back in.

    Well, that someone is probably not reading this thread... but that said, I think there's some understanding within Adobe that there are some problems here.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2012 8:11 AM   in reply to John Hawkinson

    I have to agree  this seems like a major problem. If the solution exists in the scripting dictionary it  sounds like the preference got left out and someone needs to put it back in.

    Well, that someone is probably not reading this thread... but that said, I think there's some understanding within Adobe that there are some problems here.

     

    I got a twitter response from @InDesign that they're looking into it... so hopefully it will get looked at in the first bug release.

     

    Screen Shot 2012-05-17 at 11.05.52 AM.png

     

    I'm a little less hopeful about snap-to-pixel coming anytime soon after reading this thread though. Sounds like it's more complicated than it seems.


     
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  • Rob Day
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    Oct 16, 2007
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    May 17, 2012 10:41 AM   in reply to jessebc

    Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but have you tried turning on Snap to Document Grid and setting your Document Grid prefs like this:

     

    Screen shot 2012-05-17 at 1.38.18 PM.png

     

     

    With this setting any manual move I make shows the x y as a whole number in the Transfom panel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2012 10:55 AM   in reply to Rob Day

    Yep... those grid settings work for basic shapes (most of the time). It's when you start using strokes, paragraph rules, transformations, tables, etc... that everything quickly falls off the pixel grid. I'm still using InDesign for this large responsive web design project I'm working on... but it take a considerable amount of time to clean up those fuzzy edges.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2012 5:04 AM   in reply to SylvainLemire

    Whoa! that looks very promising.I've also figured out a few things with illustrator with regards to snapping (unrealted I know), specifically, when moving objects with your pointer (v) it didnt snap to the grid. But you have to use the transform tool (e).

    Makes prototypig much more accurate and fast. The equivalent of drawing in broad strokes yet technically sharp.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2012 5:06 AM   in reply to SylvainLemire

    SylvainLemire wrote:

     

    Well it work for me when I click on the magnification glass. Look at tests I have made:

    (I've posted my screenshot here because this forums scale the screenshots)

     

    http://sylvainlemire.clarify-it.com/d/wyd3n2

    Do you have a comparison to what it looks like at 100% in CS5 or 5.5?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 18, 2012 8:28 PM   in reply to SylvainLemire

    Works for me too. Double clicking the magnify tool reduces the magnification to 76.6%. This seems to preview documents at pixel perfect size. I also noticed that documents export correctly to png and pdf. Phew!

     

    However... Call me pedantic but having to preview docs at 76.6% feels like a kludge. So does using points as a unit of measure for type and rules. I know its the same thing and it works fine but it just feels wrong.

     

    Perhaps I am seeking that warm (but not fuzzy) feeling. Is that wrong? If Adobe told the print world that they now had to use pixels as a unit of measure for typography I'm guessing they wouldn't be too happy about it even if it did display in exactly the same way.

     

    Adobe just releasd an update to CS6. I was hoping this would address these issues but sadly no. Fingers crossed.

     
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  • John Hawkinson
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    Jun 25, 2009
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    May 18, 2012 8:37 PM   in reply to Spen

    The irony is that the double-clicking behavior is pretty clearly a mistake. The documentation defines it as "Actual Size," but I think someone forgot to update it. Good for you that it works, but I would not bank on that continuing through forther updates.

     

    Previewing at 76.6% certainly is a kludge, and it's especially true because that number is screen-dependent. But you can use my script if you like, to avoid it.

     

    Perhaps I am seeking that warm (but not fuzzy) feeling. Is that wrong?

    No, but it's important to know if you had a more substantive complaint. It can be hard to tell.

     

    Adobe just releasd an update to CS6. I was hoping this would address these issues but sadly no. Fingers crossed.

    You're referring to the Adobe CSXS Infrastructure CS6 3.0.1 update? CSXS is the Creative Suite Extension Service (I think). It's one of several mechanisms that 3rd party plugins and tools can use to communicate with the point products. It's not InDesign specific. I think it's fairly unlikely we'll see an ID update for a few months.

     

    It's hard to know exactly what changed in the 3.0.1 update, but it is definitely not going to affect the core InDesign product's behavior.

     
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  • John Hawkinson
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    Jun 25, 2009
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    May 26, 2012 10:02 PM   in reply to John Hawkinson

    You're referring to the Adobe CSXS Infrastructure CS6 3.0.1 update?

    ...

    It's hard to know exactly what changed in the 3.0.1 update, but it is definitely not going to affect the core InDesign product's behavior.

    Jonathan Ferman has clarified that the update in question corrects the inability of some Adobe IDs that contain special non-alphanumeric characters to login ti adobe.com from products that support in-app logins (presumably that's primarily the Installers and Creative Cloud).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2012 6:54 AM   in reply to John Hawkinson

    HELP!

     

    So I decided to stick with Indesign CS6. I'm now over 50 hours into a big UI design project. Apart from having to double click the magnifying tool to preview the work at 76.6% (pixel perfect size) everything's going ok. But then...

     

    All of a sudden Indesign just refuses to draw a crisp box. EVERYTHING I do has a blurred edge even though it is on exact pixels. However if I export the page to png and open it in Photoshop its nice and crisp. No blurry edges.

     

    What's going on?

     

    It would seem something has happened to Indesign and I can no longer display graphics properly (pixel perfect as they would appear in a browser). It was working fine half an hour ago. I've tried deleting preferences but no joy.

     

    Heeeeeeelp.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2012 7:09 AM   in reply to Spen

    Have you attempted to use the script that Peter posted?

     

    I've uploaded mine here for you to use... http://d.pr/f/bFxU

     

    • Open up the scripts panel in InDesign
    • Right click on the "User" folder
    • Select "Reveal in Finder"
    • Add the above script to the folder (in the Finder)
    • Switch back to InDesign and double-click on the script you just added.

     

    Not sure if that will help your particular case... but it will save you from double clicking the maginfying glass.

    Screen Shot 2012-05-30 at 10.05.12 AM.png

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2012 10:13 AM   in reply to Spen

    Spen wrote:

     

     

    All of a sudden Indesign just refuses to draw a crisp box. EVERYTHING I do has a blurred edge even though it is on exact pixels. However if I export the page to png and open it in Photoshop its nice and crisp. No blurry edges.

     

    What's going on?

     

    Sounds like  bug I've reported, and one other user here has posted about. On my system it's triggered by using the mouse to scroll sideways, and the good news is it can be fixed when it happens, if it's the same thing, by switching temporarily to the Hand Tool and clicking, or by using the scroll bars. Symptoms I see are jagged type and low res image previews.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2012 6:13 PM   in reply to Peter Spier

    I don't think I'm experiencing the same issue as you Peter however I did try clicking on the Hand Tool and scroll bars but unfortunatley it didn't fix it.

     

    Jessebc, Thanks for the script I'm going to try it now so I'll let you know how it goes.

     

    I've been doing some tests to try and figure out whats going on. I've discovered some interesting anomalies which I've tried to illustrate. See the link below (which is a screen grab of my desktop). You may need to open the file in Photoshop and view it at 100% then zoom in to see what I'm getting at.

     

    http://www.smashingmedia.com/InDesign-Issues/index.html

     
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  • John Hawkinson
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    Jun 25, 2009
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    May 30, 2012 6:44 PM   in reply to Spen

    Trying the script should only take a few seconds!

    Anyhow, how SURE are you that you didn't change anything between the time you had crisp displays and when you lost them? Hardware, other software, etc.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2012 7:50 PM   in reply to John Hawkinson

    I haven't installed any new software since installing InDesign. Other than deleting the InDesign preferences when I noticed the issue I haven't touched any other system files or configurations.

     

    FYI. I've also created new files to see if they also have the same issues. They do. And I've tested using InDesign CS5. Guess what... Same thing. The boxes are blurred. I've been testing InDesign's pixel accuracy for a long time now. I would have noticed this.

     

    Given that this issue is also appearing in CS5 my gut feelining is that it's system related but how do you explain the inconsistancies in rendering different boxes and strokes based on the tests I've just done.

     

    I've also installed the script that Peter posted. That fixes the zoom issue perfectly but it has no effect on the antialiasing issue. Thanks for explaining how to install the script jessebc.

     

    I should also point out that when I export the InDesign page to png and open it in Photoshop almost everything displays correctly. The blurry edges are gone except on Box C which still shows a small ammount of antialiasing on the top.

     

    I know all this sounds picky but when you're designing for screens that are less than 480px high you have to make every pixel count.

     
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  • John Hawkinson
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    May 30, 2012 7:55 PM   in reply to Spen

    Given that this issue is also appearing in CS5 my gut feelining is that it's system related but how do you explain the inconsistancies in rendering different boxes and strokes based on the tests I've just done.

    Umm.

     

    Well, let's go back to basics. OS?

    What does your OS think the display resolution is?

    What does your monitor think the resolution is? Do they match? What's the native monitor resolution?

    What kind of graphics card do you have? Maybe it crapped out (it's been known to happen).

     

    Yeah, one--err, none-- of that is terribly likely. You have any better ideas?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2012 8:11 PM   in reply to John Hawkinson

    Way out of my depth now.

     

    Everything else is working and displaying perfectly. Illustrator, Photoshop etc.

     

    I guess I could try and re-install InDesign but not sure if this would help.

     

    Can I assume that no one else is having this problem? Can everyone else draw a pixel perfect box on the screen (using either the Rectangle Tool or the Rectangle Frame Tool) with no antialiasing?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2012 8:17 PM   in reply to Spen

    My screen in InDesign looks exactly like what you've posted here...

     

    http://www.smashingmedia.com/InDesign-Issues/index.html

     

    Some colours seem to show more antialiasing than others... and from time to time I've been adding a 1px stroke inside of a box like you mentioned.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2012 8:36 PM   in reply to jessebc

    Looks like its InDesign.

     

    I can't believe I've only just noticed this especially given all the pixel alignment tests I did with InDesign CS5.

     

    Guess we'll just have to wait and see if they fix it. It would be great if they fixed table and paragraph rules too but I'm not holding my breath for that one.

     

    Thanks for all your help guys.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 31, 2012 3:22 AM   in reply to Spen

    yeah, the 100% thing is crazy…

     

    Kudos to all the workarounds, but I'm not doing any scripting, or clicking any magnifying glasses, to get blurry reproduction of half-*** pixelperfection…
    This is just a massive dissapoinment, and I'm immidiately going back to 5.5…


    What on earth are the developers thinking about? Pixel-perfect? Are you insane, Adobe?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 31, 2012 5:49 AM   in reply to Spen

    @ Spen,

     

    You mentioned you replaced the prefs, did you then reset the default display performance to High Quality?

     

    And I'm not sure you correctly interpreted what I was saying about the bug. You must click WITH, not on, the Hand tool, or scroll using the scroll bar.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 31, 2012 6:10 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    Yep did all that.

     

    FYI. To replace the preferences I started up InDesign while holding down Cmd + Ctrl + Opt + Shift  (Mac)

     

    Seemed like the best way to zap everything.

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Oct 16, 2007
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    Jun 18, 2012 11:23 AM   in reply to Spen

    I just installed CS6 and wrote an Applescript that expands on John's JavaScript (post #4). The script displays a dialog that lets you choose between print scaling and pixel scaling. If you use John's JavaScript you have to make a zoom change before the new scaling takes effect—the zoom change is included in my script:

     

    http://www.zenodesign.com/forum/DisplayScale.zip

     
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  • John Hawkinson
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    Jun 25, 2009
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    Jun 18, 2012 3:58 PM   in reply to Rob Day

    Rob: I suspect the need for Windows is a bit stronger than the need for Mac...if there's a strong desire for Rob's script under Windows, people should speak up and we can port it to Javascript. It gives a UI like this:

    Screen shot 2012-06-18 at 6.56.33 PM.png

    Anyhow, Rob, your script begins with:

     

    tell application "Adobe InDesign CS5"

     

    shouldn't that be CS6? [or does it maybe not matter if you run it from inside ID?]

     

    Anyhow, Windows users, let us know, please.

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Jun 18, 2012 4:06 PM   in reply to John Hawkinson

    AppleScript will "fix" the tell block depending on the app you have open when you open the script in ScriptEditor. You probably had CS5 running when you checked the script? Anyway should run fine from the ID script panel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 20, 2012 2:16 AM   in reply to Peter Spier

    Thanks a lot for the script! I just upgraded to CS6 and the scale difference is really annoying. Glad it's fixed now.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 9, 2012 9:28 AM   in reply to SylvainLemire

    I've just opened InDesign CS6 for the first time today, and this is complete ruined the way I work on digital magazines for screen and tablet overnight. How the hell am I supposed to design iPad 1024x768 pages when I'm seeing things at this rediculuos blown up document size. If 100% isn't 100% anymore, how can you even tell what you're doign when designing for screen?

     

    The biggest joke of all if when you copy and paste an element or page into Photoshop, it goes back to the size it should be. Fantastic Adobe, you couldn't have screwed us more if you'd tried. I design websites in good old Photoshop, imagine if happened to PS tomorrow. We'd al be ruined. Who makes these decisions?

     

    I've been over and over this thread, is there simply no way to reset the effective pixels to 72dpi so I can carry on working like I have been for years? I can't quite fathom what I'm supposed to do with the scripts.

     

    Please… anyone… HELP!

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Oct 16, 2007
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    Aug 9, 2012 9:52 AM   in reply to WhiteLightMedia333

    Please… anyone… HELP!

    I can't quite fathom what I'm supposed to do with the scripts.

     

    If you work on a Mac the Applescript I posted in #66 will let you toggle between the new CS6 zoom percentage (which is in fact better for print design) and the way it used to be where 100% is the same as in Photoshop.

     

    My AppleScript is compiled and all you have to do is copy it to your scripts folder and it will show in your ID Scripts panel.

     

    If you need JavaScript, copy the script Peter posted in #4 into a text editor and save it with a .jsx extention and put that in your scripts folder.

    This reverts back to CS5 and earlier zooming

     

    app.generalPreferences.customMonitorPpi = 72;

    app.generalPreferences.useCustomMonitorResolution = true;

     

     

    When you want to switch back again to accurate print 100% view  run this:

     

     

    app.generalPreferences.useCustomMonitorResolution = false;

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 9, 2012 1:38 PM   in reply to Rob Day

    Thanks for this. I'll run the script when back at work. Seems simple enough. Although fixing it in terminal could be quite handy too. What are Adobe playing it, I see no advantage of working like this. For screen or print, either way they've changed the basis of what we all know

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Aug 9, 2012 2:17 PM   in reply to WhiteLightMedia333

    I see no advantage of working like this. For screen or print

     

    For print there is an advantage and ID is still mostly used as a print application. In CS6 the 100% view attempts to show the document at actual print size by detecting your monitor resolution—if you are showing rulers 1 inch measures 1 inch.

     

    Prior to CS6 the displayed 100% view changed depending on your monitor resolution/hardware. On my Apple Cinema display I needed to set the zoom to 137% in order to get actual sized rulers on my MacBook Pro it's 154%.

     

    The posted scripts reference a preference that never made it to the GUI, so I'm guessing this will be fixed and you'll be able to choose a preference for zooming. My Applescript toggles and I'm using it all the time because I design for both print and screen.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 29, 2012 1:02 PM   in reply to John Hawkinson

    Thank-you so much for this John.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 3, 2014 4:27 AM   in reply to jessebc

    I can't belive Adobe still haven't addressed this. Robs DisplayScale script works perfectly (thanks Rob) but I'll bet alot of designers thinking of making the switch take one look at this discussion an put it in the too hard basket.

     

    39,000 views. Surely that's reason enough for Adobe to take notice.

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Feb 3, 2014 7:34 AM   in reply to Spen

    Before CS6 there were endless threads about why rulers weren't accurate at the 100% view—a 100% view did not accurately reflect actual print size (see #73).

     

    You don't really need the script, with CS6+ all you have to do is double click the Zoom tool and you'll get the 1:1 pixel to monitor pixel ratio.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 5, 2014 9:20 PM   in reply to Rob Day

    Yep I get that and it works fine but you have to admit, it's not very intuitive and it's a bit of a pain.

     

    I'm only saying this because I know there are alot of UI designers who are looking at more efficient ways to design for screen. InDesign is a great option with all the functionality added in DPS but I guarantee this one small thing will be a bit of a deal breaker for many UI designers.

     

    Just putting it out there.

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Feb 6, 2014 5:52 AM   in reply to Spen

    I guarantee this one small thing will be a bit of a deal breaker for many UI designers.

     

    Then wouldn't  displaying 1" as .6" at 100% view be a deal breaker for a print designer?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 6, 2014 3:55 PM   in reply to Rob Day

    Yes it absolutely would, which is why the DisplayScale script is so useful. You get to choose how you want InDesign to display the page depending on weather you're designing for print or screen. If DisplayScale was a feature in InDesign or (even better) if the display setting changed when you selected one of the document presets I think alot more UI designers would be using it.

     
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