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chawla_roberts
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About that manual...

May 9, 2012 5:23 AM

Tags: #speedgrade

I know, I know, it's not done yet. I was told by some birdie on Twitter that I should still come here and gently urge the quick release of a manual. Hard to know the difference between user error and bug behavior without a manual to check for 'undocumented features' ;-)

 

And yes I already know about the short workflow videos. I need a real manual. For the depth of SG, I'm thinking it's going to be more like a book...

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2012 4:45 AM   in reply to chawla_roberts

    I also can't believe, that there is no help, no user guide/manual, just some stupid bla bla bla video from a woman ... ehmm... actually ... I found out in 2 minutes that it is a man ... soooooooooooorry ... and also the short workflow pure marketing videos are there, but ... just ... I can't zoom the timeline, because you changed the Iridas shortcuts !!!!!!!!! If you have time to shoot these videos, why have you NOT find the time to write some little help ??? You had 8 months for that !!! So ... back to the Iridas version ... or to another grading software ...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2012 8:08 AM   in reply to chawla_roberts

    Lacking information, however I can see a lot of potential with this program.  We are coloring a music video with it right now.  It's taken a little time to get use to the layout and controls.

     

    My only pet peave is zooming in on the timeline... is there no shortcut for this?  Seems like a must have feature.  Perhaps I'm just missing it and it's right before my eyes.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2012 8:32 AM   in reply to AndyInColor

    My only pet peave is zooming in on the timeline...

     

    With selector in timeline on mode Master, control+scroll wheel in mouse.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 10, 2012 8:36 AM   in reply to Manuel LP

    Thanks Manuel!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 11, 2012 7:48 PM   in reply to chawla_roberts

    Purchased SG and I'm excited about digging in. As said before there is no manual or help system. Manual please.....

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 15, 2012 3:28 PM   in reply to chawla_roberts

    ok i was also surprised that there was no manual? add me to the list!    

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 16, 2012 12:13 AM   in reply to Mr Eric J

    Add me to the list.

     

    Lack of user manual or help files on release of new application is incomprehensible to me.

     

    Learning and using SpeedGrade has gone to the back burner for me because I can not resolve some basics issue. eg dual monitor set up in the application.

     

    Some cool video tutorials do not do enough in regards to set up. They are fine for basic understanding of "how to..."

     

    This is an Adobe fail as far as I am concerned and I would have to comment that my first impressions of SpeedGrade after a week of fiddling,

     

    Dissapointing..."its got a clunky interface that defies intuition".  "Navigating and finding buttons, functions is dauntingly complex".

     
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  • Lin Sebastian Kayser
    15 posts
    Oct 4, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 16, 2012 2:09 AM   in reply to shooternz

    While we wait for the manual, feel free to post your questions here and we'd be happy to answer.

     

    Dual monitor setup, fortunately nothing changed compared to the IRIDAS release, so, go the SpeedGrade NX user guide:

     

    http://iridas.com/doc/SGNX2011_UserGuide.pdf

     

    The relevant info starts on page 18.

     

    Lin

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 16, 2012 3:09 AM   in reply to Lin Sebastian Kayser

    So... Thank you for your offer! Here are my questions. A few for the beginning :-)

     

    1) How to move the timeline? By IRIDAS, it was possible to move it simple with left mouse drag (in Custom tab). Now it is a pain ... it jumps somehow ...

    2) How to zoom the timeline? Only with scroll mouse over the timeline? By IRIDAS, it was possible to use left mouse + CMD.

    It was so easy before: to move LEFT MOUSE to zoom CMD+LEFT MOUSE.

    3) How to hide grading window - to temporary make more place for the picture? "K" doesn't work anymore, like it was by IRIDAS.

     

    Next questions are also for older versions by Iridas / not fixed in CS6.

     

    4) OK, I can check the look from a previous scene by pressing 1, two before - pressing 2 etc. If I don't like them and if I want to go back to my previous non-graded version??? Pressing 0 gives me an ungraded version only during I am pressing the button. So ... how to go back to ungraded version? Do I have to manually delete everything?

    5) I can't find any info  about the grouping - for what are they there? Only for visual reference?

    6) How can I copy/move more grading layers at the same time on the timeline? Do I have to do it one by one?

    7) Now imagine this: I want to make the white balance. I can do it visualy, but usually it is better to know the RGB values of a white point on the picture. Yes, I can press LEFT MOUSE on the picture and I see the values in a value window. Nice! By pressing "0" I can also see the original values before grading. Very nice! So I want to modify the sliders. I move the mouse to the sliders and the value window goes away. So I don't know how far to move the sliders. Is there any way/workflow to have a value feedback of a selected area/point always visible on the screen?

     

    Sorry for my english, it is not my native language ... and thank you for the answers in advance.

    It believe Speedgrade is going to be a good application.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 16, 2012 3:11 AM   in reply to Milan Michalik

    There's actually a bit more than just the introductory video - here's the full list of video tutorials available today for Adobe SpeedGrade CS6:

     

    http://tv.adobe.com/show/learn-speedgrade-cs6/

     

    It covers a  variety of topics from loading and conforming material with the application, working with .Looks, and all the way to rendering.

     

    Hope you'll find this helpful.

     

    BTW, I have the deepest respect for Jason Levine and the work he's doing as an Evangelist for Adobe products. I learned to not judge people by their looks in our industry (and in general), but just to look at their work insetad. And if you take a closer look at what else Jason does you'll hopefully agree that your original comment was... out of line. The piece you saw is a marketing piece to create appetite for the application, so it shouldn't be judged as a bad guidance to the application - this is not what it's meant to do, and we have the other video tutorials for guidance. If you find those not satisfying I am more than happy to discuss that with you in person.

     

    Best regards,

    Patrick

     

    Sr. Product Manager for Adobe SpeedGrade

     

     

     

    Milan Michalik wrote:

     

    I also can't believe, that there is no help, no user guide/manual, just some stupid bla bla bla video from a woman ... ehmm... actually ... I found out in 2 minutes that it is a man ... soooooooooooorry ... and also the short workflow pure marketing videos are there, but ... just ... I can't zoom the timeline, because you changed the Iridas shortcuts !!!!!!!!! If you have time to shoot these videos, why have you NOT find the time to write some little help ??? You had 8 months for that !!! So ... back to the Iridas version ... or to another grading software ...

     
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  • Lin Sebastian Kayser
    15 posts
    Oct 4, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 16, 2012 3:29 AM   in reply to Milan Michalik

    1) How to move the timeline? By IRIDAS, it was possible to move it simple with left mouse drag (in Custom tab). Now it is a pain ... it jumps somehow ...

     

    In the Playhead Views (Master, etc.) the playhead is always centered around the playhead. The timelines move with the playhead. In the Selected view the current clip is always zoomed to fill the entire screen. In In/Out, you will always see the in out area, if you change that, the zoom level is adjusted accordingly.

     

    2) How to zoom the timeline? Only with scroll mouse over the timeline? By IRIDAS, it was possible to use left mouse + CMD.

    It was so easy before: to move LEFT MOUSE to zoom CMD+LEFT MOUSE.

     

    Currently, CTRL+Scrollwheel is the only way to change the zoom level.

     

    3) How to hide grading window - to temporary make more place for the picture? "K" doesn't work anymore, like it was by IRIDAS.

     

    The hotkey is P for Panel now.

     

    4) OK, I can check the look from a previous scene by pressing 1, two before - pressing 2 etc. If I don't like them and if I want to go back to my previous non-graded version??? Pressing 0 gives me an ungraded version only during I am pressing the button. So ... how to go back to ungraded version? Do I have to manually delete everything?

     

    As long as your are seeing the red grading "Preview" label, you can go back to where you were before by hitting Backspace. After that you can always Undo (CMD/CTRL Z).

     

    5) I can't find any info  about the grouping - for what are they there? Only for visual reference?

     

    It is used for special cases where you want to group a grading and a clip together. Usually if you do layer compositing.

     

    6) How can I copy/move more grading layers at the same time on the timeline? Do I have to do it one by one?

     

    Yes, you can only move and select one at a time.

     

    7) Now imagine this: I want to make the white balance. I can do it visualy, but usually it is better to know the RGB values of a white point on the picture. Yes, I can press LEFT MOUSE on the picture and I see the values in a value window. Nice! By pressing "0" I can also see the original values before grading. Very nice! So I want to modify the sliders. I move the mouse to the sliders and the value window goes away. So I don't know how far to move the sliders. Is there any way/workflow to have a value feedback of a selected area/point always visible on the screen?

     

    This is a great idea, but not currently possible.

     

    Lin

     

    Lin Sebastian Kayser | Engineering Director | Adobe SpeedGrade | Founder of IRIDAS

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 16, 2012 3:32 AM   in reply to Lin Sebastian Kayser

    Thank you for your quick answers.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 17, 2012 3:09 AM   in reply to Lin Sebastian Kayser

    Thanks for your hints Lin, appreciate your work.

     

    Lack of user manual or help files on release of new application is incomprehensible to me.

     

    Learning and using SpeedGrade has gone to the back burner for me because I can not resolve some basics issue.

     

    I second that! Want to integrate SpeedGrade in our workflow, but I'm extremely frustrated right now.

     

    Dissapointing..."its got a clunky interface that defies intuition".  "Navigating and finding buttons, functions is dauntingly complex".

     

    While I understand that Speedgrade has come from an hardware-interface-controll-environment, it now is integrated in CS6 which is widely used with common PC peripherals - so things have changed and Adobe has to bring along Speedgrade in a new era.

     

    But right now, all I want is a proper manual.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 29, 2012 5:25 PM   in reply to gerfried.guggi

    I'm glad I am not the only one having problems with Speedgrade. It is an entirely new interface so none of the standard adobe paradigms work with layout changing and saving. I have looked at a quick start video but the layout is completely different to the Speedgrade I have. I have the colour correction panel but also a looks panel sandwiched in there too which makes the whole thing really cramped on a laptop. The Iridas manual uses keystrokes that just don't work and doesn't seem to be the same layout and window structure as the defaultsin Adobe Speedgrade. I need a quickstart that relates to the verison we have here. I have also lost all my looks because I hit a refresh button and don't seem to be able to get them back although of course there will be an easy way once I discover it. But it's rather like having a very swanky car where things are in the wrong place and you have no manual or help to set up. I also can't find the button to add a grading layer to the timeline? But what I will say is that it is really powerful. Just fantastic control of colour. So my questions are:

     

    1. How do I add grading layers to the timeline.

    2. How do I just get the colour panel below a monitor window without the looks panel underneath it, or place the looks panel vertically at the side ( see attached image)speedgrade layout.jpg

    3. My looks like Cinematic have disappeared and when I try to get them back there are no references to them. The only one I can see is one I saved for the above image grade. When I press what appears to be the refresh button at the left side of a look folder, it clears the folder leaving nothing there

    4. Are there any tooltips? It doesn't seem so.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 29, 2012 8:31 PM   in reply to regsquires

    1) choose "Timeline" , submenu "Setup" then drag the grading icon above the trackson the timeline.

    Capture.JPG

    OR  click on a clip in the timeline and then click on the

     

    Capture2.JPG button to give you a grading clip for each clip in the timeline.

     

    2) Can't  (as far as I know).  Just have to drag the central handle up to give yourself more space (makes preview smaller).

    3)  Click on + to add another looks category, then  "..." to browse to the missing folder (e.g. \look examples\cinematic).  Do this for each missing folder.

    4) Nope.    Actually, YES, there are, but not for everything.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2012 3:13 AM   in reply to kinvermark II

    Hello all,

     

    some new topics have been posted to the help pages for SpeedGrade (and there should be more stuff coming in the next couple of weeks - stay tuned).

     

    Please take a look at:

    http://helpx.adobe.com/speedgrade/topics.html

     

    This page also includes the link to all tutorials I've recorded on using SpeedGrade so far.

     

    Cheers,

    Pat

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2012 3:19 AM   in reply to Manuel LP

    Thanks, Manuel.

     

    Additionally, this will also work on every playhead view. If you choose Playhead 1 or Playhead 2 (which will appear in the list automatically once you've created a second playhead), you can use CTRL + scroll wheel as well.

     

    Another nice way for changing the timeline zoom pretty much automatically is the view "Selected" this will stretch the display of the current clip on the timeline to fill 2/3 of the horizontal span of the timeline. In particular nice if you also turn on the thumbnails.

     

    Cheers,

    Pat

    Manuel LP wrote:

     

    My only pet peave is zooming in on the timeline...

     

    With selector in timeline on mode Master, control+scroll wheel in mouse.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    May 30, 2012 3:52 AM   in reply to regsquires

    Sounds like you got to see the "old" introduction that Colin Smith did a little while ago as tech preview. That was still based on the old UI, sorry for creating confusion.

    All new topics including the introduction to the new UI you'll find here:

     

    http://tv.adobe.com/show/learn-speedgrade-cs6

     

    Cheers,

    Pat

     

    regsquires wrote:

     

    I'm glad I am not the only one having problems with Speedgrade. It is an entirely new interface so none of the standard adobe paradigms work with layout changing and saving. I have looked at a quick start video but the layout is completely different to the Speedgrade I have.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 1, 2012 2:53 AM   in reply to kinvermark II

    Regarding customising the interface, it seems that there is little felxibility in the UI. It does seem like it's designed for 2 monitors, which is fine but I do think there needs to be a little more thought given to perhaps a way to hide looks or have them vertically on the right hand side. The grading interface dosen't span the whole of the horizontal so I think there would be room. In this way you can have a 50% 1280x720 preview rather than the very squished thumbnail you get when you pull the grading panel up. I might do a suggested layout in Photoshop which might expalin it better

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 1, 2012 3:31 AM   in reply to regsquires

    Yes, a great number of users already have asked a way for to close the looks area (a toggle for to hide/unhide, for example), and I hope to see it in future release.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 1, 2012 4:10 AM   in reply to kinvermark II

    Here's my suggestion for a look panel on the right hand side. It's got it's disadvantages but the other idea might be to have a window at the bottom that can open and close when you mouse near it.

     

     

    speedgrade-revis.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 1, 2012 5:31 AM   in reply to Patrick J. Palmer

    Thanks Pat. I am working my way through with the old manual. One thing I can't seem to do is place another playhead in the timeline. I hold control and click on the right of the playhead and I get another with a green tick but when I drop it, it disappears. Am I using the wrong shortcut?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 1, 2012 6:06 AM   in reply to regsquires

    Perfect timing - we just added another document on the help pages that covers exactly this topic:

    http://helpx.adobe.com/content/help/en/speedgrade/using/playheads.html

     

    Tip: if you're on OS X, use CMD instead of CTRL.

     

    Pat

    regsquires wrote:

     

    Thanks Pat. I am working my way through with the old manual. One thing I can't seem to do is place another playhead in the timeline. I hold control and click on the right of the playhead and I get another with a green tick but when I drop it, it disappears. Am I using the wrong shortcut?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2012 2:54 AM   in reply to Patrick J. Palmer

    Cheers I worked out that it doesn't work with a tablet but works with the trackpad on my laptop

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2012 6:30 AM   in reply to regsquires

    Yeah, tablet is a mess, at least with my Intuos 3: can't operate the Look wheels in any meaningful way, can't create playheads, can't close SG reliably, etc. Hope Adobe fixes tablet support soon.

     

    BTW, how do you pan across zoomed material for monitoring? I can do it with the numeric pad +, but it always zooms in the center. Is it possible to pan to a more important area? E.g., I was working on a dance video and wanted to see the face which in the upper 1/3.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2012 6:38 AM   in reply to Sekhar Ravinutala

    Sekhar Ravinutala wrote:

    BTW, how do you pan across zoomed material for monitoring? I can do it with the numeric pad +, but it always zooms in the center. Is it possible to pan to a more important area? E.g., I was working on a dance video and wanted to see the face which in the upper 1/3.

     

    Shift+cursor keys

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2012 11:40 AM   in reply to Manuel LP

    Shift+cursor keys

    Cool, thanks Manuel. BTW, for others struggling for shortcuts: looks like a lot of the old ones in the IRIDAS manual (http://iridas.com/doc/SGNX2011_UserGuide.pdf) are still valid, check those out.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 4:48 AM   in reply to Sekhar Ravinutala

    I would definitely switch to the new hotkey documentation, now available at

    http://helpx.adobe.com/content/help/en/speedgrade/using/keyboard-short cuts.html

     

    Pat

    Sekhar Ravinutala wrote:

     

    Shift+cursor keys

    Cool, thanks Manuel. BTW, for others struggling for shortcuts: looks like a lot of the old ones in the IRIDAS manual (http://iridas.com/doc/SGNX2011_UserGuide.pdf) are still valid, check those out.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 4:49 AM   in reply to Sekhar Ravinutala

    If you want to zoom in on a specific position it might be faster to put the mouse pointer in the center of the area of interest on the monitor itself, then use CTRL + mouse wheel to zoom in / out.

     

    Pat

    Sekhar Ravinutala wrote:

     

    Shift+cursor keys

    Cool, thanks Manuel. BTW, for others struggling for shortcuts: looks like a lot of the old ones in the IRIDAS manual (http://iridas.com/doc/SGNX2011_UserGuide.pdf) are still valid, check those out.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 9, 2012 2:43 AM   in reply to Patrick J. Palmer

    Each time I look at the help page for the PDFs to all Adobe progs, it says they will be available in June.  Does anyone know which June?  It's June here in the UK.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 9, 2012 11:52 AM   in reply to Patrick J. Palmer

    I checked out CS6 as a trial, and I'm very excited about the new possibilities. I was particularly curious about Speedgrade and how it would work for us on a feature we're shooting with the Canon 5d. Sg has very good color control, and CS6 in general has a good workflow. Unfortunately, the color-correction workflow is not quite well established, and I think we'll need to stay with FCP and Color for one more project. I'm hoping Adobe has this ironed out by the winter, for my next feature, because I would really like to take adavantage of the Dynamic Link between PPro and AE. And the media encoder. And the native r3d support. LOL!

     

    It looks promising, keep it up!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 12, 2012 7:37 AM   in reply to Missteach

    Hi Wodehouse,

     

    I can confirm it's June in Adobe Country, too. Sorry for the delay in getting these published.

    I can't speak for the other applications, but for SpeedGrade it's actually because of me: we have some more topics coming that are going ot be covered on the helpx pages and can make their way into the PDF as well by introducing a slight delay.

     

    So for SG I would probably state "sometime in June" which is what we're still aiming for.

     

    I'll definitely post an update to this thread once it's out.

     

    Cheers,

    Pat

    Wodehouse wrote:

     

    Each time I look at the help page for the PDFs to all Adobe progs, it says they will be available in June.  Does anyone know which June?  It's June here in the UK.

     
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