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Problems with XDCAM EX Footage

May 21, 2012 2:00 PM

Tags: #cs6 #xdcam #ex-1 #ex-3
  Latest reply: alextheshoe, Oct 3, 2012 9:27 AM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 2, 2012 11:57 AM   in reply to Trent Happel

    Hi Trent,

     

    Uploaded sample file and sample project.

     

    While copying files, purely by coincidence, I noticed something strange about the directory structure: For some files, the MP4 filename doesn't correspond to the containing folder name. Usually this is the case, but sometimes not.

     

    So in most folders things look like this:

     

    Screen Shot 2012-06-02 at 20.44.10.png

     

    But sometimes this happens:

     

    Screen Shot 2012-06-02 at 20.46.16.png

     

    This was copied directly off of a flashcard from the camera. For the file that almost always gave me trouble (200_0040_01) the names were ok, and this file alone in a sequence is ok, but once it is edited together with a file whose folder name doesn't match, there is trouble.

     

    Can people with this problem please check if they also have this kind of "mismatch" in their camera file structure?

     

    Thanks,

     

    Carl.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 2, 2012 12:06 PM   in reply to Trent Happel

    If this is the root of our problems, my following question would be:

     

    For those "mismatched folders": Can I rename the enclosing folders to match the files they contain without screwing up my project? It would be something I would want to try out. Unfortunately I haven't delved into relinking media quite yet, but maybe someone else has? Ideally I would like to make a copy of the Media, correct the folder names, and relink the project.

     

    Maybe someone can give me a hint if this is at all possible and roughly how to do this.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 2, 2012 12:43 PM   in reply to Carl Schuurbiers

    First of all, thank you for the additional information.

     

    Renaming the folders should not screw up anything with your Project. You will likely need to relink the media, folder by folder that was changed, when you reopen the Project, though. Before you reopen the Project with renamed/matching folders names, I would also recommend that you delete your Media Cache (on Mac: Users/<your user name>/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Common/Media Cache & Media Cache Files folders. After deleting the Media Caches, then open the Project, relink files.

     
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    Jun 2, 2012 1:14 PM   in reply to digitalkiln

    Thank you, Gerry. That is good to have confirmed. Sounds like there are a few cases to reproduce this issue. Based upon my initial findings, I do have an issue logged for dev engineering to look at. I will also continue to add all of your additional information. All of your help is greatly appreciated!

     
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    Jun 2, 2012 12:54 PM   in reply to Trent Happel

    Ok, will try this. I think I have Media Caches on a different drive, but I'll find them and get rid of them.

     

    I have to make one important correction:

     

    This particular folder I received on a harddisk from the cameraman. He had left the camera running on a couple of occasions and deleted some long-ish files himself. I can see from the mediaprofile xml file (MEDIAPRO.XML in the root) that there were quite a couple of takes that were deleted. So that folder has been messed with. Though it worked in 5.5 as it was...

     

    I do have another folder that I personally copied from a camera flash as I said, will do some tests with that now.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 2, 2012 1:24 PM   in reply to digitalkiln

    Ok, tested with an original, "clean" folder structure, all cachefiles and folders deleted. Started with a brand new project, imported whole folder, ignored the "a lot of files not recognised" message. Made a sequence by dragging a clip onto "new item" icon. Set some in and out points on a couple of clips in icon view (cool feature BTW), automated to sequence. No improvement.

     

    So unfortunately the problem persists...

     

    And I was almost getting excited about at least a possible workaround

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 2, 2012 2:13 PM   in reply to Carl Schuurbiers

    Thanks for checking, Carl. Sorry it didn't work out.

     
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    Jun 2, 2012 9:39 PM   in reply to Trent Happel

    Do you think that a temp workarround could be to use prelude to ingest and transcode to another codec in the same process, f.ex. DNxHD, or would it be safer to transcode outside CS6

     

    Thanks

     

    Ulf

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 2, 2012 11:03 PM   in reply to UlfLaursen

    He he, I was thinking the same thing and have been running some tests for the past few hours. I used some known problematic files, transcoded to OP1a and H.264 via Prelude and so far the transcoded files did not appear to have the same tearing issues. Now, don't take this as gospel, but it may be a workaround option for some of you. I'll run some more tests tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2012 10:09 AM   in reply to Trent Happel

    Unfortunately I have to spoil this party

     

    Just used Prelude to transcode problematic footage to XDCAMHD422 in OP1a MXF container. Unfortunately still tears, also in the transcoded files that were sent to Premiere.

     

    Back to compressor?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2012 10:38 AM   in reply to Carl Schuurbiers

    Well, still good to know, Carl - great you found out saved others some time.

     

    If you have the Canon XF-xxx, the newest XF-utility (1.2) offers to join spanned clips into one large MXF fie that is easier to transcode in CS5.5 AME f.ex.

     

    Don't know about Sony though, but I think they have a simmiar utility.

     

    I think I'll go that route until now just to be sure - glad I still have a PC with 5.5 installed :)

     

    Hope for a fix soon

     

    Ulf

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2012 11:26 AM   in reply to Carl Schuurbiers

    Drat! Thanks for confirming the Prelude workflow, Carl.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2012 5:27 PM   in reply to Trent Happel

    Would anyone be willing to share some sample files for us to look at this internally? I'm not seeming any issues with the XDCAM EX clips I have here.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2012 5:32 PM   in reply to SteveHoeg

    Some people have already shared files (thanks again, everyone!) and they have been included in a logged issue.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 6:33 AM   in reply to Trent Happel

    I have used the Canon XF utility to join the clips and they play fine in 3rd party players like media player, VLC player and even the source monitor. But in the edit the tears are still there? I would upload a raw section but each clip is 2 GIG in length 8(.

    is there any light at the abobe factory?

     

    Using the latest drivers for everthing and machine is fast enough?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 6:51 AM   in reply to Roddy Mc

    As far as I know several people (incl. myself) have uploaded footage to Adobe, and I beleive they are working on it. I think the only workarround in the meantime would be to edit in 5.5 or use AME inside CS5.5 to transcode for use in CS6.

     

    Ulf

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 6:53 AM   in reply to UlfLaursen

    FYI to Adobe folks… Hope this helps you guys narrow down the problem. I’ve

    had no issues with XDCAM EX .mp4 footage from a JVC GY-HM700u on a PC. I

    can test footage from that camera on a Mac this week if needed.

     

     

     

    From: UlfLaursen forums@adobe.com

    Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:51 AM

    To: davidbeisner2010

    Subject: Re: Problems with XDCAM EX Footage Problems with XDCAM EX Footage

     

     

    Re: Problems with XDCAM EX Footage

     

    created by UlfLaursen <http://forums.adobe.com/people/UlfLaursen> in *Premiere

    Pro CS5, CS5.5, & CS6* - View the full

    discussion<http://forums.adobe.com/message/4463352#4463352

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 10:27 AM   in reply to davidbeisner2010

    One mroe request to anyone that wants to help track this:

    Try changing your Paused Resolution and Playback Resolution (should default to 1/2 at playback and 'Full' at paused with a sequence to match a 1080p 24 XDCAM EX file) and let us know if that has any effect on what you see.

    -James

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 11:11 AM   in reply to digitalkiln

    So, what's happening for you is that playback rendering is correct but paused rendering is not, right? That's the opposite of what I just saw, so it isn't apparent that one or the other is broken. Still it may be a potential workwrounf for some of you to jsut set your playback res from 1/2 to fulll... that fixed the problem on my system. I have no new info on the export portion of the OP's problem at this time.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 11:19 AM   in reply to digitalkiln

    Agreed stiil showing tears with XF300 footage and even if not seeing a tear, when you render it out theres definatly a tear.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 12:46 PM   in reply to Hotrod2uk

    Please check your footage! I have notice in the multicam edit when I cut to the camera (MXF CanonXF300) the first two frames on some clips are the same causing a verry brif pause.. ergo frame 1 and 2 are identical. If this was 25p I could understand this but as its interlaced it poses a funny question?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 3:08 PM   in reply to jstrawn

    Hi James,

     

    Did some further tests with your suggestions. My observations are:

     

    I tried switching the playback res to 1/2, and on one occasion the problem disappeard TEMPORARILY, but came back. This happened once, I could not reproduce it. Also sometimes when switching back to full playback res, the problem disappeared briefly but returned on other frames of the same clip.

     

    The only constant things I can find is that:

     

    1. The tearing almost always occurs in the same clips, often in different places, but always in certain clips.

    2. When the application is just started, playback is clean. There is something that triggers the problem, can't figure out quite what, sometimes it seems scrubbing or playing other clips or some combination.

    3. As soon as a "tear" happens in a frame, it stays there, always in the same frame, on the same place in the frame, at every playback, until the application is restarted.

     

    Testing with CUDA GPU accelleration enabled and external monitoring (Blackmagic) enabled.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 1:20 PM   in reply to Hotrod2uk

    When I transcoded one entire folder of XDCAM EX to XDCAM HD using Prelude, I also saw a couple of instances where frames were doubled in the transcoded XDCAM HD footage.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 4:27 PM   in reply to Carl Schuurbiers

    Thanks everyone for your feedback. It's pretty elusive and seemingly random, but we're still looking at it. keep the cooments coming as you find new info.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 4, 2012 8:21 PM   in reply to jstrawn

    I just had another go at a 1:30 hr. long XF clip. I edited for arround 15 min. into it, and suddenly there was heavy tearing in the source monitor for ½ min or so. I rewinded and paused for 10-15 sec. and in the same place there was only one left. Don't know if this mean anything, but before it came, I had heavy JKL activity joggling back and forth through the clip.

     

    /Ulf

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 5, 2012 12:33 AM   in reply to UlfLaursen

    Well, I just worked through my own workarround, with one PC with AME 5.5 on and a watchfolder setup, where my XF footage goes, and the output folder shared with my CS6 PC.

     

    I convert to XDCAM HD OP1a MXF files. I find the files much more responsive in CS6 while scrubbing and navigating throughout the timeline, and I find the preview at ½ resolution much better than the org. files on the same setup.

     

    /Ulf

     
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    Jun 5, 2012 8:31 AM   in reply to UlfLaursen

    Thank you for the continued information, Ulf.

     
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    Jun 5, 2012 9:58 AM   in reply to Trent Happel

    Actualle, Trent, often while scrubbing the "tearing original" MXF files on the timeline with my shuttle device, it is as if frames are mixing in the very beginningvof a "scrub" where the frst few seconds seems to be from te start of the clip allthough I am f.ex. 4-5 min inside it.

     

    After the few seconds of "wrong" footage it goes back to the correct place in the clip.

     

    Could it be some kind of indexing problem, perhaps.

     

    Ulf

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 5, 2012 10:06 AM   in reply to UlfLaursen

    The cause is still being investigated, but we have also noted that portions of other frames can appear in the frame you are looking at.

     
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    Jun 5, 2012 11:37 AM   in reply to Trent Happel

    Its good to hear your seeing what we are seeing, good luck in finding a solution soon I have aproject on the time line ready for finaling witha disgruntled client. I have explained the situation and also the fact its being looked at, fingers crossed theres a patch/fix for the issue soon 8).

    Roddy

     
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    Jun 6, 2012 9:23 AM   in reply to Hotrod2uk

    Having the same issue after uppgrading to 6.0.1 with my C300 files (.MXF). Not at all good when on a deadline...

    Visual issues included in the rendered result. There also seems to be some kind of color error, look at the screen capture of her face.

     

    I'm on a iMac, Mac Intel , OSX 10.6.8. 16 Gb RAM, ATI Radeon HD 4850

     

    Contact me at: ove@oepmedia.se if more info/files/captures are needed.

     

    ERROR.jpg

    ERROR22.jpg

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 8, 2012 5:25 AM   in reply to jstrawn

    Thanks everyone for your feedback. It's pretty elusive and seemingly random, but we're still looking at it. keep the cooments coming as you find new info.

     

    James,

     

    It seems to work with files from Canon EOS C300 if one use the free Canon XF Utility and export each card to .MXF files. Importing a folder full of .MXF files works while the very same footage in it's un-touched folder gives the issue reported by other users. It seems like there is someting in the original folder/file structure that "offends" the importer in some way.

     

    When exporting to .MXF with Canon XF Utility you end up with a folder full of the original .MXF files and no other files such as meta data files, etc.

     

    Canon XF Utility: http://usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/c inema_eos_cameras/eos_c300?selectedName=DriversAndSoftware

     

     

    /Roger

     
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    Jun 8, 2012 6:10 AM   in reply to Averdahl

    I will surely give this a try Roger - have a shoot tonight, will try it out tomorrow :)

     

    Ulf

     
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    Jun 8, 2012 6:18 AM   in reply to Averdahl

    Roger and I worked with this issue on an end user basis today and this way works great for me in CS 6.0.0 (reinstalled the suite in hope of a solution and this made the bug appear in CS 6.0.0 also). The files are running without any visual errors, I've checked 138 C300 files to get to this conclusion.

     

    Trying to import the same files from it's native folder including other files gives visual errors. Only tried .MXF-files.

     
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    Jun 8, 2012 12:39 PM   in reply to Ove Ellemark

    Thank you Roger and Ove for all your hard work on this.

     
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    Jun 10, 2012 10:07 AM   in reply to Trent Happel

    Any news yet from the adobe team? I ask as my trial 30 days is coming to an end with project still on the timeline with tears.

    The main reason for myself trilaing the software released as working and on sale was to test the multicam beyond 4 cameras. I would have expected this to be all ok apart from this unusual tearing bug which has reared its ugly head.

     

    If there isnt a solution within roughly 7 days I have to redit the whole thing back in CS5.5 without 3 cameras. Thats 6 x 2hr shows to completely start again from scratch. I would be very greatful for any updates and will happily contribute where possible. Can the trial period be extended at least to a solution as im sure I wont be Purchasing the production premium cs6 until this is fixed?

    Roddy

     
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    Jun 10, 2012 10:46 AM   in reply to Hotrod2uk

    Sorry, no expert, Roddy, but could you not use the utility (sony or canon) to create the MXF files (like other users have posted above) and then replace the footage with these "correct" files, without having to reedit everything? Just a thought - maybe someone ese can clear it up, if it's possible at all

     

    Ulf

     
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