Problem with MLB.com IS NOT SWARMCAST!!!

[wilbur55555]

I have been maintaining a thread documenting my testing of the problem with MLB.com.  http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1010015?tstart=0  In response to my complaint that the thread is being ignored, Chris Campbell, who I actually find polite and helpful, posted this:

Sorry Wilbur,  I didn't mean to ignore this thread.  I thought I had communicated that we found the MLB problem wasn't due to Flash Player, but instead attributed to a technology that MLB is using called SwarmCast.  It looks like Flash Player is responsible, but that isn't the case.

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4440073#4440073

I appreciate your detailed responses, but my video team is telling me that this isn't something we can fix (since we don't own SwarmCast.)  Is there an action item you'd like to see us respond to?

Chris, because you are still ignoring that thread, you missed this detail:

I am having the same problem even when what you are calling "SwarmCast" is not running.

I realize that my posts are long and daunting to read.  However, they contain a wealth of information and are worth taking the time over.  Especially, the last several I posted with screen shots should be particularly interesting.

So you know, what I think is that there is an interaction between Flash player and the MLB container that is choking off the video data stream.  My evidence is that when a game exhibits the pausing and spinning circle problem, the associated browser gets bad results from MLB's speed test, but another browser does not.

Could you please consider not giving up on us MLB.com subscribers?  The problem is NOT SwarmCast (actually NexDef) and my posts on that thread clearly show that.

Thanks.

[chris.campbell]

I'm not ignoring the thread, really.  But with the release of 11.3 and the large amount of Firefox data coming in, I have had to adjust my priorities.  I will forward your findings on to our video team for their review.  Please be aware though that not everything is done client side.  While you've disabled swarmcast/nextdef on your machine, that might not mean that it's removed from the equation depending on what is being done on the server.  I do appreciate your attention to detail, hopefully someone on the video team will be able to diagnose what is going on from your thread.

Chris

[wilbur55555]

Hi Chris, thanks for your reply.  I understand how busy you guys are with all the issues related to Firefox and your new Flash version.  Please understand the level of frustration here too.  Sorry if my replies have sounded tense or annoyed.

I understand your statement and realize that the SwarmCast technology probably exists on the server side as well.  However, the MLB guys have stated point blank on their forum that NexDef is intended to solve the problem of rendering good resolution over slow connections, and isn't needed on fast ones.  That probably means that there is some sort of request issued from the client to initiate the NexDef support in the stream at the server side, but I have no way of knowing for sure short of sniffing packets, which I'm not bothered to do.  Too much like work to do for free. 

I hope we can get to the bottom of this.  As a baseball nut living on the other side of the planet, MLB.com is the fix a baseball junkie needs.  Baseball is virtually unheard of here in Thailand, unless you count bonehead Brits calling it "big boys' rounders".   

Yes, the Euro football tournament is being shown here and we get some of the top tennis as well (on Astro Supersport from Kuala Lumpur), but this just doesn't cut it for me.  I need my baseball.

If you're a sports fan, you understand. 

Thanks again for your response.  I'll keep testing. 

BTW, please note that you can put someone on the development team in touch with me directly if you want, or pass along specific tests to run.  While I am not a video guy, I AM a 30+ year software guy, and will be able to work with these folks, in their own language besides. 

[wilbur55555]

I have created a bug report for this problem: Bug  #3213881

[wilbur55555]

New testing record posted here: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4492787#4492787

[wilbur55555]

I've been contacted by Yuzhong Cao from your technical section regarding this problem.  He requested access to MLB.com for testing. 

Please understand that I am unwilling to risk my subscription by passing my login details along to him. 

Chris and Jeromie, please work with MLB.com to get Yuzhong access to the MLB service.

Thanks.

[wilbur55555]

Excerpts from two new posts from the same user on the MLB board:

Post 1:

I live in canada and have rogers cable. This allows me to watch the blue jay games online.  The games play in a stripped down version of the mlb player. There is no scoreboard on the side, but the rest is basically the same. 

The main difference from the other streams, is they just take a straight feed of the Sportsnet channel. MLB does not insert their own commercials, it is just like watching the tv.

I have NEVER had a problem with this feed, nexdef...non nexdef, the slider NEVER jumps around, no hiccups. I can even watch on a highest level, and I have very low bandwidth (between 800 and 1000)

Post 2:

The other night, I actually had 2 windows open. One with the Blue jays game on (using nexdef, slider in the middle) and the other was the full mlb player (non nexdef at the lowest level). Jays game played great the whole time, while the other game kept lagging/spinning circles. If I closed the jays game, it then played fine. But the Jays played fine for 9 straight innings regardless of what browsers I had opened or processing I was doing on my PC.

I believe that these two posts confirm both of my hypotheses, namely:

- that the MLB player container is implicated in choking off the data stream from the Flash player, and

- that NexDef, ratther than being the problem, is crashing because the stream is being choked off.

[wilbur55555]

Note this reply from the Admin of the MLB board:

...the media player used for the Rogers Sportsnet Blue Jays streams is the exact same media player as the one used for MLB.TV, but, like you mentioned, it does not have some of the features that offer access to the additional feeds in MLB.TV.

So again, clearly the error is in whatever is different between the Rogers version of the player and the full MLB version.

[wilbur55555]

Yesterday I got a couple of emails from Yuzhong Cao about my bug report.  He couldn't get into the MLB website.  MLB reports they work together with you guys, don't you have access?!

I emailed him today (my time) asking if he had gotten access yet.  Based on the times of his responses yesterday I expected to hear from him today, but I didn't. 

Chris, can you confirm whether Yuzhong or anybody else in your organization has access to MLB.com?

Thanks.

[wilbur55555]

Went back through my emails today and found one sent on Monday by Yuzhou over at Adobe.  Being in hospital clearly makes me a bit less efficient at answering my email.

Yuzhou said he'd found a video to watch and it worked OK.  I advised him that the regular highlight videos wouldn't show the problem, and advised that he should try to access the free game of the day.  I had previously asked MLB to contact him with information on how to do this.

Clearly this failure by MLB to give Adobe access to their games means that MLB's version of "working closely with Adobe" consists of laughing up their sleeves at us customers and stonewalling Adobe when Adobe tries to help the customers that MLB refuses to.

I call a "balk" on MLB for this one.

Chris, I realize that the problem with Flash player has all hands on deck over there at Adobe.  However, every week is another week where I can't watch baseball.  Could somebody over there help fix this issue at some point?

Thanks.

[wilbur55555]

I understand that you guys are swamped with the problems with the current Flash player, but I also don't want this problem to sail off the edge of the earth.  Should I expect to hear from Yuzhou any time soon?