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Michelle and Mike
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How to eliminate darkened areas after applying flatten transparency?

Jun 13, 2012 8:11 AM

I just upgraded by CS to 5.5 here in the last couple of weeks (I had purchased it prior to 6 being launched). Any way, I've noticed on some ads I create, when I save as an EPS and then go to "flatten transparency" that sometimes it is taking elements and darkening the photo/graphic underneath. For example, I have an ad that has three starbursts with drop shadows overlaying some photos. When I select the "flatten transparency" function, it is darkening a portion of the photo underneath. I'm going to try to attach a sample to this question as to what I'm referring to.

 

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can offer!
Michelle

 

sample.jpg

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 13, 2012 9:38 AM   in reply to Michelle and Mike

    Th drop shadow you have on the yellow burst, is considered a transparency effect and causing this. So it is creating a bitmap and the colpr management is what is making this look off. If you were though to copy and paste this into photoshop, then you should find your result looks normal (see my screenshot). So depending on what and how you are doing with this .eps you may either be good or have a problem. Printing seperations should be good, bit making a screenshot would look bad.

     

    Lef is illustrator after flatten trans(the pink is actually 2 rectangles so I could demonstrate what is happening), and the color looks bad. Right is copying this bad result into Photoshop and looks good again.

    Screen shot 2012-06-13 at 11.31.29 AM.png

     
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    Jun 13, 2012 11:16 AM   in reply to Michelle and Mike

    This is not an 'always' sort of thing, but most often when I see this is when a drop shadow (or other raster efect) has been created in a CMYK document, over an imbedded RGB element (or vice versa), or some other sort of profile mismatch between document color space and imbedded images or graphics.

     

    Though it sounds like you've been doing this a long time, and the problem just cropped up recently, so I don't know why that would be.

     

    These articles are about older versions (and one is about InDesign), but they address the same, or similar, problem and may provide some ideas:

     

    http://indesignsecrets.com/eliminating-ydb-yucky-discolored-box-syndro me.php

     

    http://rwillustrator.blogspot.com/2006/08/spot-colors-transparency-and .html

     

    Just my 2 cents.

     

    OB

     
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    Jun 13, 2012 2:09 PM   in reply to Michelle and Mike

    Some thiogs to consider.

     

    Is the original Image CMYK because if it is rgb and you have a cmyk document it will be converted to cmyk with Illustrators color management rules applied.

     

     

     

    then you should look at those color management rules Edit>Color Settings and make cetain thay are the same as Photoshop if that is your image edting app.

     

    then you should consider turning on overprint preview to see an accurate representtation even if there is no overprint.You can also proof your colors. View>Proof Colors.

     

    Make certain the bvlack for the shadow is a cmyk black.

     
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    Jun 13, 2012 4:17 PM   in reply to Michelle and Mike

    Hmm, I'm curious to learn how to reproduce this problem. Those of you who get this problem, can you please, describe step by step how to reproduce it. I'm using CS5 and made a quick test but I can't reproduce it. When I flattened the transparency of drop shadows over images this divided them into patches but I don't see any color shifts or differences between the patches.

     

    If the document is in a CMYK color space the placed images regardless of their own color space, for on screen display purposes are already converted  and displayed in the color space of the document because it is not possible to display parts of the same document in different color spaces. And because of this it is not possible to get changes in display due to color management - the colors are already converted when displayed in the first place. The rasterasation just applies internally the conversion to the actual placed image too but nothing should change on screen due to color management.

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 4:14 AM   in reply to emil emil

    @ emil emil,

     

    I've never been able to make it happen myself, either. These are files sent from customers where, who knows what they did. In the worst cases (for production) the efect does not appear when viewed on the screen in Illustrator, but is very apparent in the rip or when printed. And, yes, we've gone through many, many tests with different profiles, different rips, etc., etc. Sometimes it works, sometimes it's worse.

     

    With a doubtful file (a combination of what's in the file, and the track record of files from the specific customer) we will often "pre-rip" the file by taking it into PhotoShop, which usually will show the problem if it is going to occur, then we supply the print department with a tif.

     

    Clunky, I know, but it usually works.

     

    Next time I come across one of these where confidentiality isn't an issue, I will keep you in mind and upload it somewhere you can get it to look at. I am always interested in new ideas and solutions.

     

    OB

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 6:16 AM   in reply to emil emil

    Look at my example above, and try this:

    1. Draw 2 vertical magenta rectangles
    2. Draw a reflex blue circle on top, and add a drop shadow
    3. Select one rectangle, and the reflex blue circle,
    4. Object >> flatten transparency >> preserve transparency(CHECKED)

    Then copy and paste this into Photoshop, and it fixes the problem. Not sure exactly why as I did not see anything with view >>  overprint preview on\, or view >> proof colors.

     

    I used Mac AICS5.1.

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 6:20 AM   in reply to Michelle and Mike

    Not sure if what i found is exactly what you are experiencing since I already was in North America General Purpose 2, but hoping it leaves some clues, and both are related to transparency flattening and most likley color management.

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 8:27 AM   in reply to Mike Gondek

    OK, I got it. But this is because the drop shadow got cut in half and one of the halves remaining over the vector lost its Multiply blending mode. If before flattening in the Drop Shadow effect the blending mode is Normal there will be no change after flattening. And after flattening transparency with the drop shadow in Multiply blending mode you can make them the same again if you select the drop shadow that remains over the vector rectangle with the direct selection tool and change its blending mode to Multiply again.

    This doesn't seem to be the op's problem though. In the op's image the entire raster image patch after fattening got darker, it is not just changed appearance of the drop shadow due to change of the blending mode.

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 8:38 AM   in reply to emil emil

    Thanks for the reply emil. I knew that the multiply was getting lost, but any idea why when you paste this in Photoshop the multiply mysteriously reappears?

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 9:51 AM   in reply to Mike Gondek

    I guess you are pasting in a RGB document which is similar if you paste in a RGB Illustrator file from a CMYK Illustrator file. If I paste to a CMYK file with the same color space the result is the same as in Illustrator. In RGB the blending mode remains Normal but the shadow is also transparent and the transparency is handled better in RGB and even slightly better when displaying it in Photoshop than Illustrator. If you export the Illustrator file to a Photoshop document preserving layers you will see that the shadow remains in Normal blending mode and if you then convert the to RGB mode with layers preserved you get the same appearance as if when pasted. 

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 10:21 AM   in reply to Michelle and Mike

    Michelle and Mike wrote:

     

    sorry I'm just now getting back to you guys. I don't know if this will be of any help or not, but I kept searching based on responses and I then launched my version 4 which is still on my computer until I make sure I have all my settings where they need be in 5.5 so I can compare. I went to *edit* and dropped down to *color settings*. In 5.5, it was set to "Emulate Adobe® Illustrator 6.0" at the top where it says settings. I changed it to read the same thing as my CS4 program had which was "North America General Purpose 2". All the other settings were the same across the board and I would have to guess are default settings for the working spaces and color management policies. This fixed the issue with the items darkening on my screen. I work completely in CMYK for printing purposes so I'm very careful to make sure all imported photos to Illustrator are CMYK. I also am now leaving off the color profile in Photoshop. If you need to know exact settings I was using on that Photoshop color profile on photos being imported, let me know and I will list them or screen shot them. But leaving off the Photoshop color profile and changing the color settings in Illustrator to what I mentioned above got rid of the issue I was having. Hopefully this helps and makes sense what I did.

    Michelle, do you think you can reproduce consistently the problem and describe step by step how others can reproduce it? If yes, this will help to understand the problem.

     
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