Skip navigation
yannick1976
Currently Being Moderated

Why does Photoshop display colors differently from the other applications even in sRGB mode ?

Jun 14, 2012 4:06 AM

Hello all !

 

Here is my problem :

 

Photoshop is set to use sRGB workspace (in edit/colors.../workspace/RVB).

If I understand correctly this is how all native windows applications work.

This means Photoshop and the other applications should display the same colors on a file with a sRGB profile.

Now this is the case until I calibrate my monitor.

 

When I do, Photoshop colors become different from the other applications (irfanview, explorer, browsers...).

The only way I found to let everything display the same colors is to set Photoshop to use Proofing/RVB Monitor.

What upsets me even more is that Photoshop colors look "better" to me (dark grays seem to dark to me in the other applications.)

 

I have read that this is because Photoshop takes the new profile into account and others applications do not. But I don't think this is relevant here because everything is in sRGB so the only profile is my monitor's and I think calibration is handled globally by windows : everything (including browsers, explorer, and Photoshop) changes color if I choose to apply the monitor's profile or not with windows color management tool ("use my parameters for this device").

 

Here is my system configuration :

- Photoshop CS4 (11.0.2)

- Windows 7 64 bits

- HP ZR2440W and DELL 2209WA (these are not wide gamut screens)

 

I have spent two days trying to figure the logics behind this and really am upset. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Don't hesitate to ask me if there is something that is unclear or some information I forgot to mention.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Yannick

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 5:16 AM   in reply to yannick1976

    What are you using to calibrate your monitor and create its profile?

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 5:29 AM   in reply to yannick1976

    I think you have grasped the concept:

    An image’s profile determines how a certain combination or RGB-values is supposed to appear and Photoshop uses the monitor profile to determine what values it needs to pass on to get that appearance or an approximation on the screen.

    If you softproof with the monitor profile you are effectively circumventing Color Management and the RGB-values are desplayed directly, so to speak.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 10:38 AM   in reply to yannick1976

    >> I thought windows was handling monitor calibration, not Photoshop.

     

    Nope. Windows doesn't do anything to correct colors for your display.  There is no global calibration.

    WIndows provides the display profile to applications that are interested in using it, and loads the LUT from the profile into your video card (that does the most minimal "calibration").

     

    It's up to the application to use the display profile correctly and convert document colors to display colors.

    And right now only some professional applications and a few browsers do that (but not all browsers).

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,471 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 1:55 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    And some browsers do it wrong - for example, Internet Explorer makes the implicit assumption that your monitor is sRGB regardless of what profile you have associated with it.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 1:25 PM   in reply to yannick1976

    Photoshop (CMS) reads an embedded ICC profile and CONVERTS it to the custom monitor profile for a theoretical 'true color' display -- nonmanaged apps generally only pass the RGB information straight through to the monitor unaltered

     

    when Photoshop is configured to ignore or not use a document profile, Photoshop ASSIGNS (for all practical purposes) its Working Profile/Space and then CONVERTS it to the custom monitor profile -- if the Assigned source profile is wrong, Photoshop displays wrong, but it can easily be corrected by Assigning the correct profile

     

    Photoshop already displays sRGB in theoretical 'true color' so View> Proof Setup: sRGB can be confusing

     

    for me, View> Proof Setup: Monitor RGB is much more useful as an enlightening tool...

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,471 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 1:30 PM   in reply to gator soup

    Gator soup, you should really try to use proper and accurate terminology.

     

    Photoshop transforms color values from documents to devices based on the color profiles that describe the two.

     

    Photoshop has a menu in which you can convert the color values from one document profile to another.  There's some relationship between the two, but if you use the word "convert" to describe what happens to colors on the way to a monitor I suspect you'll just confuse people.

     

    And experience has shown us that a complete understanding of color-management cannot be taught via forum posts.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 1:40 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    >> Gator soup, you should really try to use proper and accurate terminology.

     

    Noel Carboni, good grief, for a bright guy, you seem awfully insecure...

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 1:49 PM   in reply to yannick1976

    No, you don't understand correctly. Read Chris Cox answer over and over again until you know what it means.

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,471 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 1:50 PM   in reply to gator soup

    I guess I should just not say anything in color-management threads.  Sorry.  My fault for trying to help.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 2:04 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

    I guess I should just not say anything in color-management threads.  Sorry.  My fault for trying to help.

     

    -Noel

     

     

    suit yourself

     
    |
    Mark as:
  • Noel Carboni
    23,471 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 3:52 PM   in reply to gator soup

    That sounds like an invitation to continue to talk about the issue.  Fair enough.

     

    I'm not sure where you're getting "insecurity"...  I am just trying to help you help others more effectively.

     

    I invite you to re-read just the first sentence of what you wrote very carefully, putting yourself in the shoes of someone struggling with both the terminology and the concepts:

    Photoshop (CMS) reads an embedded ICC profile and CONVERTS it to the custom monitor profile for a theoretical 'true color' display

     

    • Think about what "Photoshop (CMS)" might mean to a person who doesn't know the acronym might stand for "Color Management System" (which is I assume what you meant).  Adobe themselves don't call it "CMS", they use the acronym "CMM" (Color Management Module).  The term "CMS" is used in the computer industry for about a dozen different things.

     

    • While a color profile might have been embedded in an image file before it was opened by Photoshop, Photoshop works on documents.  A profile is not "embedded" in a document, it is maintained by Photoshop with the document and describes the color values in the document.  If Photoshop opens a document without an embedded profile, depending on settings and user choices it might assign a profile or it might even operate on the document without color-management.  Oversimplification doesn't help people when they're trying to learn new things unless it's described as such, for example, "This is a bit of an oversimplification..." or "Generally speaking..."

     

    • Not every monitor profile is a "custom monitor profile".  Quite often a standard profile (e.g., sRGB IEC61966-2.1) is associated with a monitor by the operating system as a default, or a factory profile is installed by a driver package or system update.  Your use of the term "custom" is a bit ambiguous and could be read as implying the creation of a profile using a calibration and profiling device specific to the particular monitor.

     

    • Photoshop's color management code does not convert an embedded ICC profile at all (read carefully what you wrote).  As I said, it transforms color values.  That was the key error in your description that prompted me to comment.

     

    If ever there is a time to pick words carefully, it's in a color-management discussion.

     

    -Noel

     
    |
    Mark as:

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)

Answers + Points = Status

  • 10 points awarded for Correct Answers
  • 5 points awarded for Helpful Answers
  • 10,000+ points
  • 1,001-10,000 points
  • 501-1,000 points
  • 5-500 points