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Clark Kenyon
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New crop tool in CS 6 not an improvement

Jun 14, 2012 8:36 AM

I'd like to add my comments to the unpopularity of the new improved crop tool in CS 6. It seems it is no longer possible to set a custom aspect ratio of less than an inch. If I want to crop the spine of a book out of a 2D layout for use in an action to make a 3D image, I have to do it freehand. If the spine is less than an inch wide and I try to set the width of the crop to that amount I get an error message saying "A value between 1.000 and 300000.00 is required." I admit the 30000 inches is very generous, but why limit the minimum to 1 inch? Unless I'm missing something. They say the new Photoshop crop tool now funtions like Lightroom. I would prefer it funtion like Photoshop.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 8:43 AM   in reply to Clark Kenyon

    try typing in .5 in

     

    you may just be typing .5 and PS likely assumes a pixel measurement and can't split a pixel.

     

    although I changed the crop tool from the new method to the "classic mode" as soon as I installed CS6. I also ditched the dark background UI, I find that it can skew tonal judgement in both the highlights and shadows and is only valid for editing for on-screen purposes and not as good for print.... but that a personal preference and I'm glad that I have the option of choosing the UI themes.

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 9:01 AM   in reply to Clark Kenyon

    sounds good, then click on the little gear in the crop info bar, then choose "classic mode" and then pick the old UI colors and you're almost back to CS5

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 9:15 AM   in reply to Clark Kenyon

    Wanted to say I agree with you about the CS6 crop tool not being an improvement

     

    They wasted all this time changing the crop tool which did not really need an update, and skipped yet once again adding an image sprayer hose as Painter has had for over a decade, amongst many other great suggestions.

     

    I also have to find and reinstall the plug-in to get my channels to go back to CMD 1 =C ,2=M ,3=Y, 4=K yet once again.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 9:19 AM   in reply to Clark Kenyon

    The one thing I find myself wanting with the new Crop Tool is an easy way (with a quick glance to its Option Bar) to see if my crop will be resampling or not.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 9:33 AM   in reply to charles badland

    >to see if my crop will be resampling or not.

     

    the only times that your image will be resampled would be if you rotate and crop, or if you include both dimensions and PPI info within the parameters.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 9:40 AM   in reply to Clark Kenyon

    i wanted to add my name to the list (i still have issues trying to get used to the Adjustments panel, tho i think i finally got the UI panels figured out)

     

    Photoshop is growing into a specialist mentality (i almost need to call in a 'crop' crew when i want to do some cropping) glad the geniuses left 'classic mode' for us pea brains, tho...

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 9:47 AM   in reply to MacWright

    >or if you include both dimensions and PPI info within the parameters.

     

    a follow up to this discussion....  I do think that placing the PPI/resolution (R) into a sub menu from the crop tool is a bit of a backwards step.  Was there a reason for removing it from the top menu?

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 10:04 AM   in reply to MacWright
    the only times that your image will be resampled would be if you rotate and crop, or if you include both dimensions and PPI info within the parameters.

     

    I realize that. But the Option Bar does not show clear information with an active crop tool.

    The picture below shows 3 very different crops: two cropping to 8" X 10" at 72 and 300 PPI. One cropping to 8" X 10" with no resample. Notice the info in the Crop Tool Option Bar is identical for all three.

    This is what I would like to see changed. Or be told if there is a way in change it in CS6.

    crop-bust.jpg

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 14, 2012 10:04 AM   in reply to Clark Kenyon

    Have you tried using the Perspective Crop Tool, and just not dragging the corner handles?

     

    From what I can see, it functions just like the old Crop Tool did.

     

    -Noel

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 10:13 AM   in reply to charles badland

    Hi Charles

     

    I see what you are saying,  unfortunately the little info window doesn't have enough room to show the dimensions and the PPI, it's there but all you can see is  "....",  all this time on the new UI I guess a few things fell off.  It seems the easiest fix would be to include the PPI field back into the top bar, as in CS5.

     

    Noel - perfect workaround! especially good for reworking old actions. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 14, 2012 10:25 AM   in reply to MacWright

    Renaming with the crop preset with its PPI first is an idea... but I discovered that the New Crop Tool has its own menu of Presets which seems to be separate from the traditional tool presets? And their names are not editable, you have to delete and recreate and rename.

    hmm...

    becoming less and less of the new Crop Tool fan here.

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 10:34 AM   in reply to charles badland

    the good news is that it gives us something to look forward to in CS7

     
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    Jun 14, 2012 10:41 AM   in reply to MacWright

    Maybe a Smart Crop Tool... with an advanced aesthetics algorithm that examines your image to crop it to perfect artistic composition!

     
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    Jun 15, 2012 7:44 AM   in reply to Clark Kenyon

    x

    x

    x

    where is the CLEAR now or do i need to manually click in each field to reset a custom apsect ratio

     
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    Jun 15, 2012 8:07 AM   in reply to gator soup

    cmd+click (right click) and Reset Crop should be at top of menu.

     
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    Jun 15, 2012 9:45 AM   in reply to charles badland

    brilliant, thanks

     

    that seems to lock out the crop tool, tho -- for example — i then hit the V key nothing happens

     

    looks like it takes yet another key, Esc, to regain functionality of other tools?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 15, 2012 10:11 AM   in reply to gator soup

    Yeah, it is confusing. The new Crop Tool will always show its marquee when selected, one marquee state is "passive".. and all the normal shortcuts will work. The other is an "active" modal state, so like previous version of PS, you have to commit or cancel the crop before you can do other things.

     
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    Jun 15, 2012 10:26 AM   in reply to charles badland

    x

    thanks, again, charles

     

    i really like simplicity and elegance = intuitive:

     

    c.png

     

    just when i learned how to scroll my old-fashioned two-button scroll mouse in the right direction — Apple switched directions, now i always seem to be heading the wrong way...but that's progress for ya

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 15, 2012 11:43 AM   in reply to gator soup

    gator soup wrote:

     

     

    i really like simplicity and elegance = intuitive:

     

    c.png

     

    Yes, they've just made everything SO much more complicated with Ps CS6...  For example:

    ILikeItToo.jpg

     

    See post #10, in case you missed it.  

     

    -Noel

     
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    Jun 19, 2012 1:47 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    unfortunately the perspective crop tool doesn't like files with SO layers, it was a hopeful workaround but alas.

     
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    Jun 19, 2012 2:21 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    OFF TOPIC:

    c.png

     

    ...

    ILikeItToo.jpg

     

     

    This is a bit off topic, but, by gosh, screen shots of Ps with  the dark interface are so darned hard to read! 

     
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    Jun 19, 2012 2:29 PM   in reply to station_two

    yes, but that's why one of the best new features of CS6 is being able to revert to the old style

     
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  • Trevor Dennis
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    Jun 19, 2012 3:10 PM   in reply to station_two

    station_two wrote:

     

    OFF TOPIC:

     

    ILikeItToo.jpg

    This is a bit off topic, but, by gosh, screen shots of Ps with  the dark interface are so darned hard to read! 

     

    You need to click on the graphic to see it actual pixel size on your screen.  That's how it would look when using hte program after all.

     
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    Jun 19, 2012 3:50 PM   in reply to Trevor Dennis

    Trevor, I would have two comments on your remark:

     

    As a regular forum user for about ten years, I know hot to handle embedded graphics, thank you.  My comment still stands.  The dark interface is the pits.

     

    Secondly, screenshots of Ps 13 using the lightest interface are often readable even at thumbnail size, before clicking on them.

     

    There was an earlier request by CameraAnn to this effect, politely asking for the lighter interface in screen shots.  If and when I find it again, I'll post a link.

     

    I'll send you a PM in a few minutes.

     
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    Jun 19, 2012 3:55 PM   in reply to station_two

    station_two wrote:

     

    There was an earlier request by CameraAnn to this effect, politely asking for the lighter interface in screen shots.  If and when I find it again, I'll post a link.

    There's this one from the Beta forums

     

    Plea for Light UI to be used when posting Screen Shots

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/995341

     

    But I think most people will post screenshots from whatever interface scheme they normally use.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 19, 2012 4:28 PM   in reply to station_two

    It's maybe a little forward to ask people to change their UI settings just for screen shots.  I certainly have no intention to do so.

     

    And I don't mean to be argumentative but I think the dark interface Adobe has created is the best thing they've ever done to the UI.  I just wish all the dialogs would use it.

     

    Just try to think of posted screen shots using the UI schemes you don't like as just gentle reminders of why you've chosen the one you have. 

     

    -Noel

     
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    Jun 19, 2012 4:42 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:


    ...Just try to think of posted screen shots using the UI schemes you don't like as just gentle reminders of why you've chosen the one you have. 

     

    Oh, I do, Noel, I do!  Trust me, I'm very grateful to Adobe for making the dark interface just an option.

     

    I also normally just skip the posts that purport to illustrate a point through a dark-interface screen shot, as I did the ones above.  That's why I didn't comment on whatever issue was being discussed, just on the illegibility of the images.

     
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    Jun 19, 2012 4:55 PM   in reply to John Waller

    John Waller wrote:

     

    ...But I think most people will post screenshots from whatever interface scheme they normally use.

     

     

    Of course!  Every poster has a right to limit the number of potential replies as he or she sees fit.

     

    I'm just saying, some of us may not be able to contribute a helpful reply in those cases. 

     

    Anyway, thanks for the link:

     

    Plea for Light UI to be used when posting Screen Shots

    Apr 25, 2012 1:54 PM

    I would like to put in a request:

     

    I find it almost impossible to read the settings which were used when people post either Screen Shots or Demo Movies which were made with the dark UI

     

    It would be great if people could switch to a Light mode before making explanatory Screen Shots (Cmd/Ctrl + F2 cycles through the GUI modes instantly and painlessly!)

     

    And, if you are planning on publishing a book, do realise that once these dark screen shots have been rasterized, downsized and reproduced in Print, they become totally illegible!!!

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 19, 2012 5:02 PM   in reply to station_two

    I wonder how it has come about that we have developed two so totally different feelings toward the dark interface (thinking of the differences in our perceptions here).  I've mentioned in other threads that I know that I am in the minority, possibly because I cut my high tech teeth on video display terminals in the 1970s and 1980s, which presented light text on dark backgrounds.  Light text has always seemed much more comfortable and readable to me, though most editors and UI experts advise the opposite - that dark text is more easily readable.

     

    -Noel

     
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    Jun 19, 2012 5:02 PM   in reply to John Waller

    ...and think of all that wasted black ink when the posts or the screen shots are printed.  

     
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    Jun 19, 2012 5:14 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

    ...I know that I am in the minority, possibly because I cut my high tech teeth on video display terminals in the 1970s and 1980s, which presented light text on dark backgrounds...

     

    No, I don't buy that.   I also started using computers, even mainframe ones, in the course of my work in the early 1960s, and also worked with scientific instrumentation, all of that before color displays, practically half a century ago.

     

    On the other hand, despite my formal scientific education, I am much more artistically inclined, and typography has been a passion for me since well before computers.

     

    That's probably where the difference lies.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 19, 2012 5:37 PM   in reply to station_two

    Mmmmm, maybe not.  I too have a pretty strong artistic side and from the sounds of things I'm likely interested in many of the same things as you.  Man, we're a couple of old codgers, though, eh? 


    But I don't think my points are all wrong...  You started BEFORE video displays - years before.  I did a small amount of punch cards and printout, and some Selectric terminals for just a short time before video terminals became available.  It could still be related to what we both started with - you with dark text on light background (printouts) and me with light text on dark background (video display terminals).  On the other hand, much scientific instrumentation was light on dark (thinking o-scopes, nixie readouts, etc.)

     

    The one other thing I can offer in possible explanation is that I occasionally get some pretty bad migraine headaches which bring a strong sensitivity to light, and I've come to realize that the subliminal feeling that light sources are sending pain doesn't ever completely go away, it just becomes very muted.

     

    My curiosity is always piqued when I come across someone who feels very differently than I do about the same things, and I strive to understand why.  I hope you don't take any of this as a criticism; I certainly respect your preferences, and I'm very aware that I'm not in the majority on this.

     

    -Noel

     
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    Jun 19, 2012 5:46 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    No offense taken at all, Noel.  I fully respect your opinions.

     
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    Jun 22, 2012 12:20 PM   in reply to Clark Kenyon

    I have to agree that the new crop tool isn't an improvement, it took me two weeks to get things to work properly with some of my scripts.I also think that the new tool slows things down, moving and turning the picture behind the crop box really is annoying as the screen has to refresh to keep up. As someone who in not really likely to use the new tool, is there some way to make the "use classic mode" the default? I haven't been able to find any setting for it.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 22, 2012 1:20 PM   in reply to somewhereinusa

    somewhereinusa wrote:

     

    moving and turning the picture behind the crop box really is annoying as the screen has to refresh to keep up

     

    Not really - it's smooth and organic on a modern system with reasonably good GPU.

     

    -Noel

     
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    Jun 22, 2012 2:48 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

     

    Not really - it's smooth and organic on a modern system with reasonably good GPU.

     

     

    I'm not really interested in the size,quality etc of your or my equipment. My original question was can the "use classic mode" box be checked by default. On the rare occasion

    that I might want to use the new in improved crop tool, I think that I might be just smart enough to uncheck that box.

     
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    Jun 22, 2012 2:53 PM   in reply to somewhereinusa

    the "use classic mode" within the gear icon drop-down should be persistent. If it's not remaining as the default setting you might want to cleanup your prefs.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jun 22, 2012 4:24 PM   in reply to somewhereinusa

    I just answered your specific point that it's annoying because of screen refresh.  That can be overcome with a video card that costs under $100.  No one's bragging here.

     

    Regarding your comment about the setting not sticking, you have something wrong on your particular system.

     

    Mac or PC?  Have you quit Photoshop gracefully after setting Classic view for the Crop Tool?  That's when preferences are saved.

     

    -Noel

     
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