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Matrox MXO2 Mini and CS6 Windows?

Jun 19, 2012 9:51 AM

I got a Blackmagic Intensity Pro card to monitor the Premiere CS6 timeline, which turned out to have very mediocre performance since half the times I press play the audio lags one second behind the video. So I'm going to return it and get something else, and the next logical choice by price would be the Matrox MXO2 Mini, and there's a promotion running until the end of July to get the Max model $200 off, so I have two questions for those of you who have this kit.

 

Does it perform as it should with CS6.0.1? Meaning, no A/V sync issues, no lockups, proper video timings sent to the TV set or broadcast monitor, etc.

 

And, what about the h.264 encoding quality? I keep trying to find anything on it but all I get are results that talk about its features, like it has super fast encoding, but I can't find any reviews on the actual quality of the encoding, and speed means nothing to me if quality can't be as good as encoding with x264 in at least the normal setting.

 

Thanks,

 

Sebastian

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 19, 2012 10:02 AM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    the next logical choice by price would be the Matrox MXO2 Mini

     

    Disagree, the next logical step would be not to get any third party card, and especially not from Matrox. It is a pretty sure way to create mysterious errors and it surely degrades disk performance significantly and does not show gains on other aspects.

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 12:12 AM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    You don't need any Matrox card to connect to a TV. You don't need Matrox for anything else than its designed purpose: a doorstop.

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 4:44 AM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    Sebasvideo wrote:

     


      The second monitor preview in Premiere is useless, especially when editing 1080i.

     

    I agree with that. I used a matrox RT X2 up to CS5 but since CS6 I have been using this monitor and its just not right for previewing 1080i. I might end up weraing glasses very soon, because some panned shots just look really terrible.

     

           "You don't need any Matrox card to connect to a TV. You don't need Matrox for anything else than its designed purpose: a doorstop."

     

    This is a personal opinion based on personal experience. Matrox has got a tendance of discontinuing some of their products and they will not develop drivers for them leaving the end user in the lurch. Thats when the item becomes a doorstop. Like my RT X2 I eventually sold it on ebay for about a third of the price I bought it a couple of weeks ago. I sold it for enough cash to buy the MX02 mini, but still waiting to hear how it performs in CS6.

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 5:56 AM   in reply to srukweza

    The second monitor preview in Premiere is useless, especially when editing 1080i.

     

    Why? It works great if you know the right keystrokes.

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 6:16 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Harm Millaard wrote:

     

    Why? It works great if you know the right keystrokes.

     

    This is what we all need to know. So the better we all know, then Matrox cards will be left for the "doorstop" but since we don't know the right keystrokes, then Matrox cards becomes a priority.

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 6:51 AM   in reply to srukweza

    CTRL + tilde ~

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 7:28 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Harm Millaard wrote:

     

    CTRL + tilde ~

     

    Can you please tell us the moves we need to do to achieve that, or to get to Ctrl + tilde.

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 8:16 AM   in reply to srukweza

    Just make sure your timeline panel is active. Say this is your screen:

     

    20-6-2012 17-08-43.png

    Now press CTRL + ~ (tilde) and you get:

     

    20-6-2012 17-09-13.png

    Sorry, I had to reduce the size by 50% to be able to upload the image.

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 8:16 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Harm Millaard wrote:

     

    Why? It works great if you know the right keystrokes.

     

    Which keystroke turns your computer monitor into a professional standard broadcast monitor? 

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 6:14 PM   in reply to Evil Edison

    Which keystroke turns your computer monitor into a professional standard broadcast monitor?

     

    [ unnecessary abuse removed by admin]  You think a Matrox card does that? Come on, get real.

     

    None, but then a TV is far away from a professional broadcast monitor. If you attach a pro broadcast monitor instead of a simple computer monitor, then the keystrokes work equally well, but then on a pro monitor. Keystrokes do not improve the quality of the monitor in  use. Keystrokes make it possible to use a monitor and then it is up to you to use a good or bad monitor or a lousy TV.

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 9:32 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Harm, how do you feel about kona cards?

    It is an expensive option, but if you want a professional standard broadcast monitor then that is the way to go.

     

    I realize you don't like Matrox options, but I have had good luck with them.

    I have a matrox mini that is connected to a decent Sony 1080p TV that is used to work with FCP, PP, and Avid with a MacPro.

    I have done tests with a proper broadcast monitor through a Kona 3 card side by side, and while the Matrox is not 100% accurate it is pretty damn close if set up right.

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 10:30 AM   in reply to Jason Britski

    I used to have a DVStorm card and it was great at that moment, untill they stopped support for PR back at version 1.5. I then moved to Matrox and got burned, as someone said. I have never tried another card and never missed anything without a third party card. I use dual monitors and a separate HD TV for full screen display. So I can't give you an accurate reply about Kona. From what I read here, Matrox still has regular problems with drivers, BM appears to be better and from AJA one seldom hears anything negative and they appear to have great support.

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 10:58 AM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    Hi Sebastian,

    I do beta testing for Matrox and I can confirm that Mxo2 Mini works just great with CS6 and audio sync problem, if this is your major problem with Black Magic! Btw if you need to fast export H.264 I would suggest you to buy an MXO2 Mini MAX to let you export H.264 for bluray, Iphone, Ipad, Ipod and for internet faster than realtime.

    With MXO2 Mini Max you can capture in H.264 so you will be ready to burn to bluray or upload on the net as soon as you finished your capture.

    MXO2 has a unique HDMI Calibration that let you calibrate your HDMI Monitor and turn your HDMI screen into a professional grade video monitor with the unique Matrox HDMI Calibration Utility.
    The MXO2 works as a streaming device so if you connect any source to the MXO2 it can be streamed on the ned using softwares like Adobe Flash Media Live Encoder...

    So is not just an I/O product is much more... and I think you will not regret you will buy it....

    Btw, much more info the can be found at : http://www.matrox.com/video/en/solutions/adobe/

     

    Hope this is helpfull for you!

     

    Regards

    Mark

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 20, 2012 12:46 PM   in reply to Mark Editor

    Mark Editor wrote:

     

     

    I do beta testing for Matrox and I can confirm that Mxo2 Mini works just great with CS6 and audio sync problem, if this is your major problem with Black Magic!

     

    What do you really mean by saying " and audio sync problems"?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 20, 2012 4:23 PM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    O yes sorry I wrote in a hurry.....sorry

    I mean the MXO2 works just great with CS6 and doesn't have any audio sync issue....

     

    regards

    Mark

     
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    Jun 20, 2012 9:14 PM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    I suggest you learn the UI a little better. It is clear you do not understand it. Try Maximize and see for yourself. The stuttering is caused by lacking hardware or the serious performance degradation caused by Matrox. Matrox causes degradation by 300% or more on several aspects of editing. Interlaced material on a progressive monitor, that's your problem. Matrox can not solve that.

     
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    Jun 21, 2012 12:31 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Sorry Harm Millaard, if I well understood, Sebastian doesn't have Matrox MXO2 yet!!!

    So why you say is a Matrox problem!!!!!
    Maybe is a Black Magic problem or something wrong with Nvidia driver....it could be investigated!

    I think you never worked with an MXO2 so you are talking about something that you don't know nothing about!!!!
    I never experienced nothing like that with my MXO2!!!!

    So please be more honest and don't just denigrate a product, just because you don't like a company!

     

    Regards

    Mark

     
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    Jun 21, 2012 12:33 AM   in reply to Mark Editor

    Mark,

     

    Just read the questions here from people with Matrox, look at the benchmark results from people with Matrox installed. Also look at Creative Cow and the multitude of Matrox problems. That will give you an idea.

     
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    Jun 21, 2012 2:14 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    I have to say I disagree with Harm.  I am a reseller who also edits, and use Matrox, Black Magic and AJA.  I do not find the full screen playback using the ~ key good enough - my footage is interlaced and PAL, and the computer screen never displays this 100% accurate.  Premiere does a good job at this compared to other products but it is not as good as using a proper video card like a Matrox or Black Magic.  I have always prefered Matrox for a variety of reasons - like any product not perfect and with CS6 just out the door and the drivers just released of course there are problems, but I still prefer having proper monitoring using a Matrox than using Premiere without it. 

     

    With CS5 I always found Black Magic completely killed the realtime performance and Matrox performed the same as Premiere without hardware.  With CS6 and Mercury Transmit it is different and now they perform about the same and certainly do not drop the performance by 300%.

     

    Comparing Black Magic and Matrox, Black Magic are cheaper and generally have the same i/o although some of their cards (the more expensive ones) can display 1080 50P resolution and above video - the Matrox top resolution is 1080 50/60i (good enough for most people).  Matrox have a better capture and rendering codec, nice breakout boxes, some good extra filters and don't cost too much more than Black Magic.  They also have the MAX option for fast H264 encoing which is useful if you do not have a very fast modern PC. Does it perform 100% properly in CS6 - none of them do right now because it is very easly days but they work pretty well.

     

    You also asked about the H264 encoding quality - the quality from the MAX encoding is not better then Premiere in my opinion but also not worse.  Premiere can do a 2 pass VBR encode, and the MAX is limited like all hardware to 1 pass.  The Max major advantage is speed so if you don't care about the speed the it is not so important and get an MX02 without the MAX option.  Comapring the speed if you have a nice up to date 2011 pin PC then the Max is not so much faster - an hour took about 50 minutes to encoding using the MAX in our tests, and using just software took about an hour for a one pass VBR (twice as long to do two pass VBR).  But this is a test using a really fast 6 core processor.  On my laptop or older i7 systems the difference is a lot more.  BTW this is comparing the MAX to Adobe's built-in encoding not to x264 - I have not done that comparison.

     
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    Jun 21, 2012 2:29 AM   in reply to David_V_Clarke

    With CS5 ... Matrox performed the same as Premiere without hardware.

    Benchmark results show around 300% degradation, not on H.264 encoding, but on all disk intensive operations. You will see that as soon as your timeline grows longer.

     
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    Jun 21, 2012 4:18 AM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    I am using an MX02 Mini all the time and I have not seen a drop in performance on long, small, complicated and nested sequences.  This is based on using it not benchmarks.  Out of interest where are these benchmarks?

     
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    Jun 21, 2012 4:20 AM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    Sebasvideo wrote:

     

    In fact, I already ordered the Matrox MXO2 Mini Max from B&H since they are selling it for $600. Maybe it will work and maybe it will not, if it doesn't I will just return it, simple as that.

     

    Can you please update us on the perfomance of the Matrox Mini Max when you have got it.

     
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    Jun 21, 2012 5:54 AM   in reply to David_V_Clarke

    Benchmark Results

     

    You can not readily recognize them, since we have no field in the SQL database to display Matrox cards, but here are some results, based on the current entries:

     

    I performed this test with Matrox MX02 Mini installed. Not the MAX version.

    I did a second benchmark with the Matrox removed from the system. Results are the virtually the same, except for the disk I/O test. Reading of '73' compared with '451'

     

    Look at #668 and # 676. Both with the MXO2 and both with far worse results than one would expect, only caused by the Matrox card.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 21, 2012 7:38 AM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    Hi Sebastian

     

    In My Experience you will Benefit Using Matrox 100% as you can Preview Composite, HDMI and Component, Use the external Audio in the Mini with a mixer and take advantage of the Quick and Fast Encoding wit hthe Max Technology inthe Card for H.264 that works Great with Media Encoder, I run in my Studio the Mini with the HD Compress Card in My windows and also same setup for the Mac. If you buy the matrox I sugest you to buy the Longer Cable as it comes with the 90cm Cable sometimes not long enough.

     

    Also the best thing is if you love the good Color Presets that matrox supplied with the Software they are Fantastic, To boos the power of your machine use an Nvidia card that works Fantastic with premiere pro CS6.

     

    For preview you can Use a second Monitor with premiere or WYSIWYG from matrox that is Awesome

     

    Remeber all thos Bench marks have no prove and if you have a goos strong machine and Know how to fully use the software and take advantage of It you will be more than happy

     

    Best Regards

     

    Julio César

     
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    Jun 21, 2012 8:28 AM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    Sebastian,

     

    I have SEVERAL Matrox products, and they all work great.  I have an older "Axio" system, an MXO2 Rack Max, and a DVI Convert Plus.  I believe ALL of these products IMPROVE our efficiency in post production.  I like them so much, that I have told many of my friends who have also purchased Matrox products, specifically the Mini and the LE!  They are all happy as well. 

     

    I truly believe sometimes things go wrong... it can be set up, it can be hardware/software/drivers, it can be the physical product... People develop a "bad taste" in their mouth over certain products, companies, or experiences.  I'm no different.  However, I can tell you that I have NOT had a "300% drop" in performance of my machine due to adding anything Matrox.  In fact, I'd say quite the opposite...

     

    Let's say something does go wrong...  One of my buddies was ready to throw the MXO2LE in the garbage because he was convinced it was terrible... "It doesn't work as well as yours..."  I was honestly too busy to help him at that moment but suggested he contact Matrox customer support, as they are quite good at solving problems, and they do so in an expediant manner.  It ended up that HE didn't have HIS SETTINGS properly configured, and that was the issue.  He created conflicts himself.  Now that it's all set up correctly, he's wearing a huge smile.  The guys at Matrox support were able to figure out his problem and get him on track... (He was using the MXO2LE to record files "live" as H.264 files and it was dropping frames... it was due to his codec choice... )

     

    I agree with the post that the MXO2 line does so much more than provide a secondary monitor.  There is an extensive toolset that comes with the box.  In my case with the Rack... I can still use practically ANY device to get in or out of the system, which is very helpful when editing broadcast masters, as believe it or not, most broadcasters STILL want tape, usually HDCam or HDCam SR for programming. 

     

    As for the encoding of H.264 material... the Max will change your life.  In our world of post production... time is money.  Money is everything.  Let's not kid ourselves.  The Max feature is beyond fast!  The quality is great.  I don't see a difference between it and what AME does, only it's faster.  We have been able to secure new clients because of our ability to quickly make changes and then post preview videos to clients on the likes of Vimeo or YouTube.  

     

    The other REALLY cool thing about the MXO2 line is that you can use them in your post facility and on the road.  I travel extensively, and it's great to know that I can take entire projects with me and use the same hardware/software configurations while NOT in my studio.  Matrox are the ONLY company that offer that solution.

     

    Good luck with your decision.  I think you're on the right track!

     

    Curt

     
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    Jun 21, 2012 11:56 PM   in reply to Curt Pair

    Adobe chooses to allow self proclaimed experts to substitute for support that Adobe should be providing. This practice is below my expectations from a leading software company.  Is it a liability issue Adobe worries about or possibly Adobe is being cheap to please investors? Some of these self proclaimed experts can be helpful but at times I find them providing information that is not well researched.  When pressed on a issue there can an unprofessional response that baffles us with obscure information unrelated to the problem being discussed. I am asking Harm Millaard to please elaborate on his Copyrighted Benchmark document that I find very confusing.  What Matrox card and what Matrox software was installed? How was the study conducted?  Are these results scientific and repeatable. 

     

    I have been doing integration sales, service and support for NLE systems for over 10 years and now find myself on the creative side. There seems to be a  issue with credibility with some of the experts I've done business with in many of the manufacturers support departments. Some manufacturers are no longer in business because they had bad technology and lied about it to cover up their faults.  My recent experience Matrox is with owning the MX02 LE. While there have been problems, finding a solution has been much better than average, Matrox tech support employees do seem to care.  Problems are escalated to higher levels and Matrox employees have stuck with me with telephone support to solve complex installation issues.  Sometimes it was the Matrox drivers but just as often it was Adobe to blame and yes I was the cause of one issue.  Once Matrox identifies the problem they worked hard at finding a fix. Eventually they get it right. 

     

    Al Mooney a Product Manager, Adobe introduced Premiere CS 6 to the San Jose Adobe users group.  He admitted previous Premiere Pro versions had many faults including not providing enough support to the vendors that support Adobe like Matrox. At this moment, I am having a serious issues with Adobe premiere Pro CS6 tearing video from a Sony EX1.  The Matrox MX02 is NOT the problem and it is very stable with CS6. The good thing is Adobe acknowledges the bug.  So I'll need to revert to CS5.5.2 until it is fixed.

     
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    Jun 22, 2012 5:22 AM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    I ran Harms benchmark test on my system and I got slightly better results for all the tests except the disc i/o when the MX02 was plugged in.

     

    I think I know why Matrox scores badly on the disk i/o test.  Matrox have their own way of handling DV footage which works well if the timelines are setup correctly (which you would do if using a Matrox card).  The disc i/o test uses MSDV and makes MSDV files and so if not set up to test it the "Matrox way" resulting in a bad figure.   If you do not have a Matrox card and do not know something about what is going on in the background you would not know this and just see the figures.  If you actually have a Matrox card you would use the Matrox settings automatically when doing your own work (not using a pre-designed test) and therefore would not have a problem.

     
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    Jun 22, 2012 7:03 AM   in reply to nickdbomb
    Adobe chooses to allow self proclaimed experts to substitute for support that Adobe should be providing.

     

    Adobe actually provides both.  You can get user help for free with these forums, or official Adobe help for a fee.

     
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    Jun 22, 2012 7:09 AM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    With Edius, I'm surprised if I have one crash per month

     

    With Premiere Pro, crashing that often would actually be a huge step backwards.

     
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    Jun 22, 2012 7:48 AM   in reply to Sebasvideo

    I used Axio LE for years with CS4 and CS5 with many stability issues. Since dumping Matrox drivers, it's been a dream. A couple of months ago, I bought a $50 HP USB monitor splitter on a whim with a large project that required having a large space for bins. It has done amazingly well - I have two  22-inch computer monitors, splitting the second monitor with a 37-inch Panasonic LED. Works great. From time to time, I have to wait for USB signal to update, but I am amazed how this has worked. Sorry Matrox, but that $50 adapter was better for me, especially when looking at the $ and stability. Anyone interested in an Axio btw?

     

    Now that I'm shopping for a CS6 workstation, I'd like to see Adobe release some kind of statement on what is best for folks who want more monitoring options - external box, dual GTXs, or dual Quadros? Any thoughts from our experts?

     

    Cheers,

    Diane

     
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    Jun 22, 2012 7:50 AM   in reply to Videowilk

    Since dumping Matrox, it's been a dream.

     

    That was my experience as well.

     
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