Thanks Charles, I'd rather not work with untagged photos, but how else can I edit? I can't edit/work with a shirt that looks orange in PS but saves as red. obviously PS is not displaying the right colors tagged, which makes it impossible to work with. and at least the lab prints red. I'm glad I made that mistake, cos at least I have the right colors to edit with again. :-)
Again, thanks so much for all your help, Charles. You have been fabulous trying to help me figure this out.
it would also be nice if Chris Cox (adobe employee) could chime in as well. would love to get this sorted out.
Keep in mind your goal is not for Photoshop to display colors correctly...
it it for Photoshop to display colors correctly within a color managed system. Colors are meaningless outside of a CMS.
I believe Photoshop EULA allows you to install on second personal computer. Can you try this on a different machine? I really don't think the problem lies with PS, but with your setup (monitor, monitor profile or video card/driver)
And please reset your Color Settings to NA General Purpose. Bad idea to use Monitor Profile as your working space.
I'm going out of town in a few days until July 10. When I get back I will install on my dad's computer and see if I have the same problems on his.
It could be the monitor, since I'm on a laptop. Dell Studio xps. But I still don't understand why i only have this problem in photoshop, and why I see it as orange with the embedded profile, when it saves it as red? and not sure why the video card driver would have any bearing on this particular issue?
again, I will install on a different computer when I get back and see what happens.
as for resetting :-) for now .. no can do... as long as my lab is printing them as I see and edit them, that's all that matters for now. until I can get this sorted out.
again, I thank you so much for your time, Charles.
you shouldn't need to futz around with Photoshop Color Settings -- they are pretty straight forward
my best free advice is:
set your Photoshop Edit> Color Settings
like this (and learn to deal with the profile warnings):
ALWAYS "USE THE EMBEDDED PROFILE" when opening images in Photoshop
if the document does not contain an embedded ICC profile
EDIT> ASSIGN PROFILE (the one that looks the best on your 'calibrated' monitor
then Edit> Convert to Profile (the desired profile if needed)
NEVER SET PHOTOSHOP's WORKING RGB TO MONITOR RGB (a monitor profile)
moving images that display correctly in Photoshop -- to unmanaged applications -- is not very complicated to conceptualize either — they generally send the RGB straight through to the monitor uncompensated (hence, they look different that Photoshop because Photoshop is correcting them for the monitor, and the unmanaged apps aren't)
this is very easy to check in Photoshop by: View> Proof Setup: Monitor RGB (which is basically stripping the profile and sending your color straight through to the monitor unchanged -- the same behavior you see in unmanaged apps)...
Thanks so much for responding.
I don't have a problem with profile warnings. what I have a problem with is having an "embedded profile" that displays orange when it is really red, saves as red and prints as red. how am I supposed to edit that way. it would be a total guessing game. Maybe if I was using it for graphics it wouldn't matter so much, but if I shot something and the color is red, I don't want to be looking at it in orange, and guessing how it's going to look when it's saved.
>> I don't have a problem with profile warnings.
yet Photoshop shows your 'problem' file as "Untagged RGB" — that tells me you chose either:
that, in essence, is the same as Edit> Assign Profile: Working RGB profile
then Photoshop Converts it to Monitor RGB
that is generally a problem work flow, you should ALWAYS specify a Source profile in Photoshop (if you are using it to visually proof colors on the monitor or printer)
>> what I have a problem with is having an "embedded profile" that displays orange when it is really red, saves as red and prints as red.
if you used the embedded profile in Photoshop (on a proper, calibrated monitor) — and it still displays wrong — either:
>> how am I supposed to edit that way. it would be a total guessing game
no guessing at all, it is actually very predictable...
if Photoshop is configured properly, it shows you a faithful monitor proof through a SourceProfile-to-MonitorProfile CONVERSION process
the problem i think you are facing is first:
this takes some time and effort to understand...
It's pretty clear that she is creating the problem for herself, because she doesn't understand any of the help she has been offered and doesn't have the correct workflow through lack of understanding or failure to make corrections p[roperly. This isn't that difficult. On my system all of her screenshots were the same color, red.
yes. I chose discard embedded profile because that's the only way to get PS to display the red.
can't be a file problem, because it happens with every single red colored photo, and blue, and green. and yellow. the colors are just off displayed in PS when I don't discard the embedded profile. Could be a bad install. and that;s something to consi. But I will check on my dad's computer when I get back from L.A. July 10th to see if it's a problem on his computer.
what bad hardware could cause a problem in PS? the video card? It's a few months old.
I don't print myself, but my lab prints exactly how I see it as the untagged RGB..
so how do I correct # 1 and #2 in your last paragraph. since I don't print so that is not a problem?
>> can't figure out how to save the jpg
the download link there should have downloaded a .zip file to your computer
simply uncompress the .zip and you should see a folder that contains the .jpg
again, running the Whacked RGB file through your different workflows/applications should be enlightening
Photoshop, color management in general, is a lot like "wax on - wax off"
not too difficult in theory, but you do need to understand the basic concept...
>> I chose discard embedded profile because that's the only way to get PS to display the red.
just caught that...
try forgetting your legacy files (for now) and confirm that Photoshop is displaying the Whacked PDI target correctly when you use its embedded profile (using the Photoshop Color Settings i pointed you to earlier)
you still haven't uploaded one of your problem files (or have you)
I don't mean to be mean, but I would seriously recommend getting your eyes thoroughly checked, because some are most definitely orange, and others have noted that as well. Perhaps you are not discriminating enough to notice the difference between dark orange and red, or perhaps you are color blind, but I would recommend you switch off notifications so you aren't bothered by these threads anymore.
Everyone has been most helpful, especially Charles and recently Gator, but you have been rude, from your first comment to your last. And the only helpful comment was information that Charles and others had already recommended I do, and which I did.
I'm not sure what set you off, but as they say if you don't have something nice or helfpul to say then don't.
I am able to unzip it, but not able to save the jpeg. I downloaded the zip to one of my files in "My pictures" I unzipped it, when you click on the jpeg it opens in windows viewer and there's no way to save.
as soon as I can figure out how to save the jpeg, I will run through my workflow.
as for the problem files, the red door and the red shirt that look orange are two problem files... actually everything that displays as embedded now is problematic as far as color goes.
Do you not see the difference between the orange and the reds either? Charles did.
had no idea that many. that could be problematic if you're a photographer.
again, I want to thank you and Gator for being so kind and patient and making so many suggestions. Will try Gator's whacked when I can figure out how to save the jpg.
if I can't get this figure out on my own form all your suggestions, I think I will need to find someone who is an expert in PS here so they can see it for themselves.
but will definitely install on my dad's computer and see what's up, when I get back in town. and take it from there.
meantime, I can at least continue editing some photos for a friend's wedding that I promised I'd get to them when I get to L.A. They won't be printing so it doesn't matter. and I can continue to edit knowing that my lab prints what I see.
10-12 million Americans (men) have red-green color deficiency. (Photoshop actually can soft-proof for the two main types).
If you are doing photography professionally (wedding) you should advance to Raw.
Also, I wouldn't necessarily recommend a laptop for serious photo editing (in fact... I began to think this all might be laptop related.)
wow.. that's alot.
no, i don't do wedding photography professionally, too nervewracking. too much at stake. lots of money to be made doing it, but I am sticking to nature and travel photog for now.
and yes, I will eventually get a monitor. had thought it might be a factor.. (I even mentioned that in a previous comment) but it still doesn't account for why I see the right colors untagged. I would assume that if it was a monitor problem I wouldn't be able to see anything correctly. But as you suggested, I will install photoshop on my dad's computer, and will also borrow his monitor to attach to my laptop and see if that's in fact the issue. I doubt it, but you never know. am willing to try anything. again, as I mentioned. my customers have loved their photos and I've had no complaints. so. and when you think about it, most people who purchase photography don't have calibrated monitors, so I make a note that colors may vary, as do most other people who sell photos. I discovered that when I looked at my website and etsy shop on several other uncalibrated computers and the colors were not the same. at least my prints are the same as my calibrated monitor.
My system is calibrated and displays tagged images properly. Are you sure your spyder has the latest software and is of a recent vintage that can even calibrate an LCD? Do you know what a working space is, and why you should not use a monitor profile as a working space? Are you sure that you are using a calibration profile as your display profile in Windows? Do you know whether your other viewers besides Photoshop manage colors correctly? Everything you have posted indicates that you are stumbling around in the dark, willing to try anything, but not understanding it. If you can't save a jpeg, what hope do you have of grasping what gator tells you? You obviously started from a state where you got a result you liked, but when you changed something or an update changed something, you didn't realize that the beginning state was a fluke. Read up on elementary color management before you make any more exp;eriments. Gator soup has excellent tutorials he can point you to. You owe it to yourself as a photogvrapher to understand this stuff not just ask for quick fixes from experts , it works if you kinow it. It's hard for even experts to try to figure what you don't know you don't know.
I think I made it quite clear that I am not that savvy when I first asked for help. "Excuse my ignorance" should have been your first clue. If you don't have the patience to help those that aren't as expert as you, then perhaps you should ignore those posts.
While everyone else was trying to be helpful, in varying degrees, your first comment was provocative and rather rude, offering no constructive advice. At that point, if my query annoyed you, you should have walked away. this is the first time I have posted on this forum and I noticed there's a way to stop notifications, that's what I would have done if I had been you.
The only time you added anything positive to this thread was when you suggested I do exactly what others had already recommended, and which I had done. That positive gesture was negated by telling me not to post again.
Some of us are new to Photoshop, and if we're having problems where do you propose we go to get help? I don't profess to be an expert, I might not be of National Geographic caliber, but I know my work is good enough to sell, and frankly that's all that matters.
To answer your questions, yes my spyder has the latest software and yes I purchased the pro specifically because it worked with LCD. My old Spyder didn't. Yes I am stumbling in the dark, never said I wasn't. All the viewers are fine, other than windows viewer, when I click on a file in my pictures it's fine, but when I click on that photo and it comes up in 'windows viewer' the colors are off, so perhaps my my display profile is not using the calibration profile. Everything looks fine in the various browsers and all the other viewers. I will google for that information, since it's obvious you won't be of help.
I know how to save a jpeg, but not from a zip file.
I was well aware it was a fluke, but since I am not savvy, I was happy to just find something that worked after spending so much money.
Again I would recommend that you not participate in conversations that are going to raise your blood pressure, since that's not healthy. There are others obviously very kind, patient and willing to help those of us who are not as fortunate to have expert knowledge.
Now you're saying that Windows viewer is off, other viewers are fine, including Photoshop? I think Gator can tell you exactly what is wrong now. Internet Explorer is only partially color managed, Safari 5 is ok, Firefox 10 is if you set it in about:config, not sure about Chrome or the others. Do you have IrfanView and how does it look there.
@Lundberg. I think you misunderstood me.The photos that I see on my etsy shop and website on IE, Chrome and Firefox are perfectly fine. I don't have safari, but that's not the issue. As far as editors go, the only photoediting software I have trouble with is Photoshop if i use the embedded profile. my work around is the only way the colors are displayed properly. all other viewers including my zoom browser is fine. I was going to upload a screenshot of the windows viewer so you could see what it looks like there, but I downloaded irfan and now that is the default viewer and it displays the red beautifully. so to answer that question. yes, in irfan view it's perfect.
thank you for that, because now with irfan as the default windows viewer I see I have the ability to save jpegs. you did not have that option with the windows viewer.
I will download the whacked jpeg when I get to L.A. if I have the time.
I don't know if Gator has yet pointed you to this site (his) that is a thorough, real-life and accurate (albeit a tad disjointed at points... ) look at Color Management in Photoshop as it relates to printing, web, monitors and picture viewers. It is not a bad place to start:
Also Martin Evening has a free pdf chapter from one of his books that is a good walk-through as to the whys and hows of CM:
It is based in PsCS3, but most still applies in CS6.
FYI, color management is an option in IrfanView, and I'm not sure whether it's enabled by default.
Jkpboca74, I sense that you'd like to discover the perfect settings to have your color-management problems just go away. Unfortunately, that's kind of a misnomer.
Color management is complex, it requires your intelligent decisions based on what you need to get the settings right for you, and it requires understanding of what you're seeing so that you know what to trust. It DOES ultimately all make sense, but it's practically impossible to learn one forum post at a time - that's been proven time and again. Tempers flare, people get offended. I urge you to read the references provided above, seek others out, and strive to get your mind around what's really going on. I promise you'll make consistently better images for it.
IE is only partly managed, you have to set management in Firefox, and I believe you have to set it in Chrome. I can't run Irfanview on a Mac, but you will need to check it. You may be kidding yourself, because Photoshop is the gold standard for truth in images. I still believe you don't have or haven't set, a good monitor profile.
I agree, it is hard to learn from a forum post when no-one can actually see what is going on with my computer, which is why, after doing all the things that have been suggested, loading onto my dad's computer, using my dad's monitor etc. if it still isn't resolved, I will take my computer and have someone check it out for me.
all I know is that the colors are off when my images are displayed in photoshop without discarding the color profile. and most notably with the reds which become orange. and that's that.