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AVCHD Workflow help

May 14, 2012 8:45 AM

  Latest reply: ACT.onn, Aug 14, 2013 6:14 PM
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 25, 2012 1:58 AM   in reply to Trent Happel

    Hi, I am have a massive problem with CS6 that I hope you can fix, as the same workflow works fine in CS5. I have reported it as a bug but does anyone else have this problem?

     

    *New computer system latest i7 processor, 16 gig DDR3 ram, NVidia CUDA4000 card, Matrox MXO minimax. SATA3 drives for C-Boot & F-media.

     

    *All card media copied to Sata3 hard drive (separate folder for each card)

     

    Situation:

     

    I import my Sony NX5 clips via media browser (1920x1080 50i) - No problem, it spans longer clips fine - this makes up 90% of project media.

    I import my JVC  GYHM100 clips via media browser (1440x1080 50i) - No problem, it spans longer clips fine - this makes up 10% of project media - (spare camera).

    I create the edit on the timeline - basic 1 / 2 channel video, mixes (CTRL+D) no problem, everything looks lovely and runs much smoother than on my CS5 system - very happy....

     

    BUT... when I go to create a DVD through Encore CS6 (using the Adobe Dynamic link & Automatic setting in DVD encoding), the result has intermittent jitters on random clips, some during straight cut edits, others (and more frequently but no always) on Dissolves (various lengths from 30-60 frames), be it from AVCHD to AVCHD or AVCHD to MP4.

     

    I tried exporting to an AVI from Premiere & importing to Encore but again there are jitters.

     

    I tried rendering the entire sequence in Premiere before using the Dynamic link - this time better in some places that had jittered / stuttered before (video only - audio is always perfect) BUT again same problem in other places.

     

    I tried setting a custom render of 4mbps single pass in Encore CS6 but still no good.

     

    My final solution / workaround was to write the whole project to a removable disc and copy it to my CS5 system, import the CS6 project into a CS5 project, use the Adobe Dynamic link in Encore CS5 to create the DVD.

     

    THE RSEULT WAS PERFECT!

     

    On closer inspection I noticed that the media encoder and encore settings in CS6 seem to have lower field first on all their settings, even when it says use project settings, which is interlaced PAL. Isn't PAL upper field first? Could this be the bug?

     

    Please help as this is workaround is not acceptable for a product that worked fine as CS5 but now doesn't in CS6!

     

    Philip Beasley

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 25, 2012 2:31 AM   in reply to philb1964

    Philip

    Have you defragged your hard drive? What speed is the drive? 5400 or 7200? Is it set up in RAID? How large are the video files?

     

    Are the cameras PAL by default?

     

    Did you just ignore the jitters and try to get a final DVD from the CS6 project? Sometimes after a long work session a computer can get "tired" and needs either a reboot or a little time shutoff. These jitters might affect the preview of your work, but they won’t affect the final DVD.

     

    This will sound stupid but have you cleaned your computer lately? I mean have you blown it out so there is no dust clogging fans? If not, maybe your computer is slightly overheating. I cleaned mine out this weekend and now it is quieter than I remember. Also my core temps are down 10 degrees and I assume the clean hard drives will have less heat to deal with as well.

     

    If you can produce a DVD and it works as expected it might just be that encore is being hard on the computer in question. I know that may seem weird, but I have seen computers slow down for now reason at all.

     

    And I don’t know if the mercury render engine translates into encore's playback which might be another reason for the jitters.

     

    Finally sometimes it is better to render the video and import it rather than dynamic link it into encore. I have had a few projects that slowed down and so I rendered the video before adding it to the project. I actually had one project corrupted by the dynamic link, but that was a couple of years ago at least. Hopefully that bug was ironed out a while ago.

     

    Remember AVCHD is a high bit rate video file type and that the amount of data running through the processor is huge. You might want to find the premier pro computer tweak guide. I don’t remember where it is, but Google should be able to help.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 25, 2012 9:07 AM   in reply to philb1964

    On closer inspection I noticed that the media encoder and encore settings in CS6 seem to have lower field first on all their settings, even when it says use project settings, which is interlaced PAL. Isn't PAL upper field first? Could this be the bug?

     

    How is CS5 working with fields?  Does it work with Upper First?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 25, 2012 10:00 AM   in reply to ACT.onn

    Hi Act.onn, the problem is in the encoding. The files play beautifully in Prem CS6 timeline, all clips, all dissolves, perfect - it is when I create the DVD or Blu-Ray the jitters come in!

     

    The automatic DVD setting on Encore CS6 is greyed out to Lower Field First, so don't know how to change it. I shoot and edit in Pal which was by default always upper field, but with HD this may be different?

     

    Yes I tried exporting the Timeline to an avi but the jitters were also in that.

     

    T Clark512: I believe CS5 encodes upper field first, but not sure as I use the automatic setting in Encore to get it to fit as I'm encoding from a HD source.

     

    The CS6 computer is brand new, a copy of my CS5 machine but better - newer ram / processor, so the drives are fresh (SATA3).

     

    I'm going to add another boot drive to the new system and put CS5 on it, reboot into it and see if the machine encodes the CS6 project import on this machine. If it does, then it's definately either CS6 media encoder or Encore CS6.

     

    As so many corporate cameras use AVCHD and because working natively in AVCHD is one of Adobe's big selling points, I REALLY hope they get this sorted!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 25, 2012 12:49 PM   in reply to philb1964

    The automatic DVD setting on Encore CS6 is greyed out to Lower Field First, so don't know how to change it. I shoot and edit in Pal which was by default always upper field, but with HD this may be different?

     

    SD DV is LFF by default, HD is UFF by default. Matrox is the exception here: SD DV with Matrox is UFF.

     

    To avoid field reversal, keep LFF as LFF and UFF as UFF. If the option is greyed out, use a custom setting.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 9:49 AM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Has Adobe provided any estimation of when the AVCHD long format bug will be corrected? I thought it was supposed to be corrected in the last update. Any news?

     
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    Jun 29, 2012 9:53 AM   in reply to randymcwilson2012

    Not that I am aware of.  I'm a little concerned that they said they could only recreate it on 'some' canon footage.  I hope it doesn't slip down the priority list because they don't think it's widespread.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 2:51 PM   in reply to Harm Millaard

    Harm, on your advice I have tried writing to Encore CS6 using a custom upper field first setting and it seems to work! Will also be updating the Matrox CS6 software to see if this cures it. For now it's a workaround - if this is is only way to go I will miss the Automatic setting in Encore which made a large HD file / or files fit perfectly onto a DVD-R 5 disc, but better a good disc a bit over compressed than none at all!

     
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    Jul 24, 2012 4:15 AM   in reply to Prof-McAlexander

    possible workaround that works for me so far is to import all footages in premiere CS5.5 and then save the project and open it in CS6. That's it.

     
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    Jul 24, 2012 9:34 AM   in reply to joe.fannta

    Spanned files then work properly in that case?

     

    Sounds like this may be caused by the indexing process in CS6.

     
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    Jul 24, 2012 9:37 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Im not sure what you mean by "spanned" but I had no issue and all went from edit to blu-ray w/o problem.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 24, 2012 9:48 AM   in reply to joe.fannta

    Spanning is what happens when shooting long takes.  The FAT32 file system on the SD cards can only create files up to 4GB, so any shot that's longer than about 20 minutes (plays, concerts, wedding ceremonies, etc.) will actually create multiple files on the card.  When imported, PP sees these multiple files as a single clip.

     

    However, the issue at the heart of this thread is that spanned files don't play back properly in CS6.  Smaller files work, no problem.

     
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    Jul 24, 2012 10:41 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    There doesn't seem to many posts recently on the spanned file playback issue. I am still finding it impossible to work in Prem CS6.0.1 with spanned AVCHD clips from recent Sony or Panasonic cameras and have had to revert to an older version. It certainly is not just related to Canon clips. Is anyone aware if any progress is being made to rectify this problem?

     
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    Jul 24, 2012 10:52 AM   in reply to HeatherJSheard

    I too have had to revert back to CS5 as I can't play any .MTS clips in CS6. The exact same clip plays fine in CS5 but not in CS6.

     
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    Jul 24, 2012 11:00 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    well, then it is certainly workig as Im using panasonic ag-ac160 and some clips were over 20 minutes.. just try it for yourself if you have also CS5 installed.

     
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    Jul 24, 2012 11:07 AM   in reply to joe.fannta

    CS5 or 5.5 are not the problem..it is CS6 that has problems with the longer spanned files

     
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    Jul 24, 2012 11:09 AM   in reply to randymcwilson2012

    read post no. 88

     
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    Jul 24, 2012 11:13 AM   in reply to joe.fannta

    I will try...interesting idea.

     
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    Jul 24, 2012 11:30 AM   in reply to randymcwilson2012

    I forgot one important thing! Make sure you have checked "save media files next to originals" in preferences dialog.

     
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    Jul 30, 2012 8:37 PM   in reply to Prof-McAlexander

    http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2012/07/importing-avchd-med ia-into-premiere-pro-on-mac-os-x-v10-8-mountain-lion.html

     

    Hey!  Someone's finally catching on!  Took a Mountain Lion update for them to notice...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 30, 2012 11:39 PM   in reply to jrobba3

    So I was thinking about what someone in the a thread, this one or another where we talked about the same things, said about the whole spanned file problem. It got me thinking, why not set it the camera to only allow file sizes of a certain size. That way you wouldnt end up with spanned files as they would be below the "threshold" set by you. The setting would depend on the maximum allowable file size by either the file format or the OS of the card in the camera.

     

    You would end up with more files to deal with, but better than having to waste hours working around the problem that Adobe seems unable to overcome. I have to test this on the Vixia that I used and had problems with the footage from, but something tells me that if I am able to try this out that the spanned file problem, lag and bad frames would be taken care of.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 31, 2012 2:21 AM   in reply to ACT.onn

    So can you provide instructions for each and every camera type on how to set (reset) this threshold?   I've never seen such settings

     

    Besides, making more 'smaller' files with just mean it needs to span 'more' files instead of fewer, which would also mean opening closing more files, making the problem even worse.

     

    I don't understand your proposed solution!

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 12:15 AM   in reply to ExactImage

    I knew I was going to regret the post. I must either have bad writing skills, communication skills or be a genius because no one understands me.

     

    i never thought about the fact that a camera might not have a way to set it to take a 700MB clip rather than a 1999MB clip. Looking over one of my cameras there is a way to divide the clips, but my guess is that would be a lengthy process and take a bit of toying with it to get it to work right.

     

    Camera manufacturers need to add the feature. If i am going to have trouble editing it because it is a spanned clip then please add a feature to keep the file size down to a changable camera setting.

     

    I used to use a Tape Camcorder which I would capture to hard drive. Then I used Virtual Dub to "chop" the large files in to more managable chunks. I dont understand why cameras of today dont have a file size feature allowing you to tell it that the file sizes should not exceed a specified amount. These files would be totally self contained and not "spanned" with another.

     

    i dont know if that would fix the problem some of us are having but it would be nice to know if the file size has anything to do with my green frames and lag.

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 1:25 AM   in reply to ACT.onn

    Since the problem is with spanning clips - i.e. crossing the boundry from one clip to another, how would making lots of smaller clips (so you'd have to span even more) help?   It seems to me that it would be counter productive.

     

    Also, why would all the camera manufacturers want to go through this effort just to work around what is a BUG in one suite of software (CS6) from one vendor (Adobe) ?   CS5.5 and it's predecesors didn't have the problem, nor does any other software I have.    It's not up to the camera manufacturers, it's up to Adobe to fix it!

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 11:34 AM   in reply to ACT.onn

    These files would be totally self contained and not "spanned" with another.

     

    The problem with that 'solution' is that the editing software then has no way to see the multiple files as one long clip, which is the preference when editing long takes.

     

    The best solution is for camera makers to forget about FAT32 and use NTFS (or at least exFAT), which has no practical file size limits that cause the spanning in the first place, and then to stop using asinine folder structures and just record everything to a single file like we had with DV.

     
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    Aug 1, 2012 8:32 PM   in reply to ExactImage

    Wow. I really need to proof read myself.

     

    Sorry guys.

     

    I had a problem with 4 clips from a Canon Vixia HFS20. The clips are all under 2GB so I dont understand why they would have been spanned but i was having trouble with the AVCHD MTS file format giving me green frames and lag while working with them. They all came off the camera as seperate files when I copied them, are you all telling my that even though Priemier shows them as 4 seperate clips they are seen as 1 clip by Premiere?

     

    If so then that is odd behavior and why? I can take the 4 clips and put them in a separate timeline and then put that timeline in another to get the "same" effect. One clip for the user to deal with.

     
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    Aug 2, 2012 1:27 AM   in reply to ACT.onn

    ACT.onn wrote:

     

    Wow. I really need to proof read myself.

     

    Sorry guys.

     

    I had a problem with 4 clips from a Canon Vixia HFS20. The clips are all under 2GB so I dont understand why they would have been spanned but i was having trouble with the AVCHD MTS file format giving me green frames and lag while working with them. They all came off the camera as seperate files when I copied them, are you all telling my that even though Priemier shows them as 4 seperate clips they are seen as 1 clip by Premiere?

     

    If so then that is odd behavior and why? I can take the 4 clips and put them in a separate timeline and then put that timeline in another to get the "same" effect. One clip for the user to deal with.

     

    No.  Do they appear as one clip if you import them via the media browser?   If they do, they are spanned clips.  If they don't then they aren't.  It's really as simple as that.   If you aren't using the media browser to import them then you probably won't know.....

     
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    Aug 2, 2012 2:32 PM   in reply to ExactImage

    Well I'm happy to report that spanned clips from my new Panasonic GH2 play back just fine in CS6.

     
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    Aug 2, 2012 9:33 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    I just want to shar my current workflow in PPRO CS6.

     

    I use my old PPRO CS 5.5 to transcode all native footage to UT / AVI files. I know that CS6 is supposed to support both AVCHD, MXF H.264 etc. natively, but there seems to be some problems with the current build, so I don't want to take the risk of getting into trouble in the middle of a project. I am in the middle og a wedding edit with different native formats, and I did the following.

     

    Offload the cards to disc with the camera utility into a "watch folder" that has been set up in AME 5.5

    Start AME 5.5, and it starts to transcode all the footage to UT-files to the root of an empty haddrive mounted in a tray.

    Take this harddrive out of tray and put it into my CS6 PC, and I'm ready to import into my project, and all footage is the same codec.

     

    I know it takes extra time to do so, but you don't need to monitor the process at all, you can let it do it in the night and you are probably ready to go in the morning.

     

    Just my 2 cents

     

    /Ulf

     
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    Aug 18, 2012 8:23 AM   in reply to UlfLaursen

    HAS THIS PROBLEM BEEN SOLVED FINALY? I can't move on with the videos I have. Anyone has seen maybe some news about the progress on this issue?

     
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    Aug 18, 2012 8:32 AM   in reply to ljgdaqetuo

    I sent out an email to an Adobe employee recently who replied:

     

     

    "It is still being investigated by engineering."

     

     

    So that means it is still a problem. I'm still not using CS6 because of the bugs introduced from 5.5.

     
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    Aug 18, 2012 9:54 AM   in reply to philb1964

    I have been working on the problem some more and have found a workaround. I have created in Encore a VBR single pass UPPER FIELD that encodes OK, although it is a pain when creating a DVD from various Dynamic link timelines to get the calculations right so it is not too big for the disc.

     

    As far as I can tell it's Adobe using Lower Field in the Automatic setting that is the problem. I shoot PAL 1080i which is upper field. PAL is upper field, NTSC is lower field, so as far as I can see Encore is trying to create a hybrid NTSC 25fps encode, which just ain't right! HD Blu-ray encodes in automatic upper field first and it's perfect.

     

    So please Adobe, give us a way to set the field preference in the automatic encode in encore and life will be good again!

     

    BTW I am having no problem at all with spanned AVCHD clips in CS6 (Sony NX5 camera shooting 1080i PAL)

     
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    Aug 18, 2012 10:54 AM   in reply to philb1964adobe

    I have been working on the problem

     

    Umm...that problem doesn't seem at all related to this thread, which concerns PP's ability to handle spanned AVCHD media.

     
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    Aug 18, 2012 11:29 AM   in reply to ljgdaqetuo

    ljgdaqetuo wrote:

     

    HAS THIS PROBLEM BEEN SOLVED FINALY? I can't move on with the videos I have. Anyone has seen maybe some news about the progress on this issue?

    I was going to ask this as well the other day. I left it alone as i found a transcode that not only solved my problem with the green frames i kept getting but the lag and other problems seem to be corrected as well. i ended up reencoding them to mpeg2 and the settings were to match source. it split the video and audio but at least i have no problems with editing the footage. i was goint to split the video from the audio anyways as i have heavy audio editing to do anyways.

     

    so i dont konw about the spanned problem, but by reencoding to mpeg2 match source i was able to get my work underway. this is a far better reenode than the last one as the last one i used still had a lot of lag problems. hope this gets fixed soon and if not that this information helps someone.

     
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    Aug 19, 2012 9:52 AM   in reply to ACT.onn

    Oh dear...  Adobe messed up big time with this one... it's been months now and the only logical explanation for no fix as yet is that they have no clue what is wrong. I think I will have to find some other software or at least go back to CS5.5, but since every single new release of their software seems worse than previous I think that finding an alternative seems more like a long term solution. I used to like their package but since I think CS3 I ditched most of it and now I only use Photoshop which became to overbloated anyway. So GOOD WORK ADOBE with alienating people to yourself! Oh and I have to also congratulate on bringing on the Stage3D to flash finaly... after just at least 5 years if I remember of asking for it by so many web developers. BUT IT IS TOO LATE NOW world has moved on and we have now Unity to make proper 3D on the web as other tools like Unreal Engine which is in the game also (thanks to Stage3D though) but never the less customer service and listening to people is on the very low bottom of your list....

     
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    Aug 19, 2012 10:09 AM   in reply to ljgdaqetuo

    Maybe they have found the root of the problem, and are putting it into next update along other things maybe not fixed yet.

     

    The 6.01 came out pretty quickly, and yes it has been quite a while now, but lets hope for a big update next time, including this too

     

    /Ulf

     
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    Aug 23, 2012 5:08 AM   in reply to ZachRosing

    I have the same issues with playback using AVCHD footage in PPCS6....  I thought it was just my computer struggling to deal with the files...but they were not very large...or long...  I get audio but the video freezes on one frame... all the time.  I hope Adobe fixes this and doesn't charge us an extra few hundred dollars for an upgrade.  That is the one thing that frustrates me with Adobe, they charge you hundreds of dollars for the "newest" and "best" that is full of bugs and then charge you more so you can actually use the software.  I am about ready to quit and go to Sony! Does anybody at Adobe actually pay attention to these forums?

     
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    Aug 23, 2012 5:31 AM   in reply to KateMorgan

    I am amazed that such a giant sotware company as Adobe can have such a blatant problem, that didn't exist in previous versions and that is still unresolved months after it's release. Native AVCHD editing and muticam are major selling points for Premiere. On my system it is completely impossible to work with spanned AVCHD footage, particularly in multi-cam.  I have the same problem with spanned AVCHD footage from both Panasonic and Sony sources so it is not the AVCHD format. I have also tried importing the footage first in CS5 as suggested by Joe Fannta in post #88 which diod not help. How widespread is this ? Are there some users who can successfully edit multicam spanned AVCHD footage in CS6? If so can we compare machine specs to see if it is a hardware issue? My system exceeds the minimum spec and the same hardware runs CS5 spanned multi-cam perfectly ok.

     

    If you want to run a test, please make sure you are using CS6 and clips that are more than 20 minutes long - stack two or three tracks and then set up a multicam edit - play from the multi-cam window and the problem should show up within a few seconds.

     
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    Aug 23, 2012 7:16 AM   in reply to HeatherJSheard

    Are there some users who can successfully edit multicam spanned AVCHD footage in CS6?

     

    Yes, actually.  I did have a problem with a clip uploaded by another user, but the media form my own Panasonic GH2 edits perfectly fine.  So this is not a consistent problem with all media across all cameras.  I can't tell you why it works for some and not others, I don't know what could possibly be different with the GH2.  It caries the AVCHD logo, which means it must comply with the AVCHD specs and shouldn't be any different than AVCHD from any other camera.  Yet...for some reason the GH2 spanned clips work.

     
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    Aug 23, 2012 7:41 AM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim,

     

    I am afraid that not all AVCHD is created equal!  See this article and its predecessors in the series:

     

    http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psf8217s_missing_ workflow_part_7_adobe_premiere_pro_cs5.5.x/

     

    He is talking about a different problem, which I know to my cost affects my Canon HF S30, but I would think that there may well be common cause here.  I note that in one part of the series he notes that Panasonic AVCAM cameras do not seem to be affected.

     

    Perhaps someone who suffers from the problems described here would like to try see if Premiere correctly recognises their files.

     
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