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Adobe Premiere Pro Help | Editing multi‑camera sequences (CS6)

Jun 3, 2012 5:07 PM

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2012 5:07 PM   in reply to Community Help

    At least one broken link on this page. For example the link with this text is broken in the third paragraph from top: See "Change a camera angle".

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2012 5:58 PM   in reply to Community Help

    Question about using clip markers to synchronize multi-camera source sequence?

    How do clip markers work to synchronize  clips for multi-camera source sequence in CS6?

     

    I placed a "comment marker" on each clip sequence at the appropriate time in each of two clips. I ten open the create multi-camera source sequence.  But the option to synchronize with clip markers is dimmed out and can not be selected.

     

     

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 3, 2012 9:42 PM   in reply to Ron Fredericks

    You place Clip Markers with the clip loaded up in the Source Monitor.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 12, 2012 3:25 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Adding clip markers in CS6 is a complete nightmare let's be honest guys. I have been trying to do this from the timeline, bin, source monitor and its just not working right. Has anyone seen any video tutorial on adding clip markers from the timeline using the waveform to syncronize clips. Like adding more than three clips in video track one and the same in track two etc. The moves is now very difficult and taking an awful lot of time when you try to syncronise events which does not require a clapper board. I think adding a clip marker menu should be restored as it was in CS5. 

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 12, 2012 6:51 PM   in reply to srukweza

    I think adding a clip marker menu should be restored as it was in CS5. 

     

    Agreed.  Not sure what that functionality was removed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 15, 2012 6:01 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    You can make a request for an enhancement. http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

    I don't think that markers the way they were will return.

     

    Links are now fixed.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 27, 2012 7:44 PM   in reply to Community Help

    I had some issues coming to terms with clip markers but now have it sorted.

    I do quite a lot of multicam editing of the recordings of live musical events.

    Where previously we had no issues synching using the audio waves and 'other numbered' clip markers.

    CS6 initially worried me but I now have found a simple way around it.

    I run the selected clip in the Source monitor, pick a visual clue and place a marker and repeat this in all clips.

    I then Create Multicamera Sequence, Sync to clip markers & Reveal in Timeline.

    I then use the wave forms to synch more accurately which does move the markers out of alignment somewhat.

    I couldn't find a way to move the clip markers but that doesn't seem to matter.

    The first act was 1.25 hours long and as I was using 3 x tape cameras and 2 AVCHD cameras, I had two clips from each tape camera for Act 1

    I just added that clip from the second tape to the synch'd track of first tape, using one of the AVCHD complete tracks as the synch source.

    It didn't have a clip marker, but was just tucked on at the end of the first tape clip.

    Then I Make New Sequence from Clip, turn on the multicam monitor and away I go in the usual manner.

    In the end, it wasn't that much different from before and not that much longer.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 27, 2012 7:52 PM   in reply to FrankMac59

    I do have another couple of issues.

     

    Using the accent key with the multicamera monitor active does not maximise it although it works as exepcted in other wframes/panels.

    Also, I cannot select a linked video/audio track by clicking the audio. I must click the video for the pair to be selected.

    Finally (at least to this time) holding ALT and clicking no longer allows me to select audio or video alone.

     

    Are these changes or bugs? 

     

    I am using V6.01 but will check again now for later updates.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 27, 2012 10:29 PM   in reply to FrankMac59

    New info for me.

    I didn't think you could add a clip marker in the timeline but you can.

     

    For some reason, you have to create a keyboard shortcut for 'Add Clip marker' under Edit/Keyboard shortcuts under the Timeline menu - I found SHIFT + num keypad * worked).

     

    Then all you have to do is select the track in the timeilne, execute your short cut and the clip marker is placed at the position of the play head.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2012 5:18 AM   in reply to FrankMac59

    Addendum - I can only drag out the ends of an unlinked clip if it is not expanded.

    Similarly, an isolated audio track can't be cut or moved unless it is collapsed.

    These issues surely must be bugs.

    Is anyone else noticing these problems and limitations?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2012 6:20 AM   in reply to FrankMac59

    I haven't see that on either of my two systems.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2012 10:29 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    It seems like most of the issues I am having are with expanded audio tracks.

    When expanded, I can't drag the audio to shorten the combined audio/video.

    I can't razor on an expanded track but must cut on the video track.

    ALT + click will allow me to move video or audio in isolation but neither can be moved if the audio is expanded.

    Ihave just been onto Adobe support and they remotely had a look.

    At least some of this stuff is a bug but some, I was told, is normal behaviour.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 4, 2012 12:56 AM   in reply to Community Help

    I have no problems with creating the base sequence and the nested sequence, my problem is how to keep in record mode when stopped and switching cameras. It seems that you can only switch cameras while recording in real time. I edit multicamera music clips and need to step forward frame by frame to pick a camera and edit point. I was able to do this in all previous versions of Premiere. Now that we have more simultaneous cameras, this facilty is required even more as you cannot perceive a lot of cameras in real time. How can I acheive what I did before. If I can't then it will be impossible to carry out my projects - and my business.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 4, 2012 9:02 AM   in reply to piprod

    CTRL+Click on the new angle to make a cut.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 4, 2012 2:48 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Many thanks Jim, that was a great help. It is a bit more cumbersome than the way it was, but it works. How do you find out this stuff? Cheers, Raymond (Australia)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 4, 2012 5:18 PM   in reply to piprod

    Are you trying to do the whole thing in one hit? I don’t think that is the expected work flow and certainly, it isn’t what I do.

     

    I run the whole thing through, changing camera angles on the fly then go back to the target sequence in timeline view. I change any camera angles that don’t work and use the Rolling Edit tool in the target sequence to fine tune the changes/cut points

     

    I have been doing it this way since CS2 without issue and it works well for me.

     

     

     

    Frank

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 4, 2012 6:59 PM   in reply to FrankMac59

    I agree that Frank's work flow is the better one, more efficient and faster.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 6, 2012 1:22 AM   in reply to Community Help

    I guess it depends on the material you are editing, technique, and the individual. I have been using Multicam since it was available as a purchased separate plug-in.

     

    Frank's technique worked for me with interviews, and some live events such as conferences, but not for fast precise cuts with 4 or more cameras. I spent far too long fixing camera angles and edit points. It is too easy to miss a good shot in concert footage (singer jumps, great drum fill, guitarist pulls a face, etc) when recording shot changes in real time. My brain can't split itself to absorb all tracks at once.

     

    Have you edited material like this with your technique?

     

    http://vimeo.com/46958746

     

    How long did it take? I did this 21 track video in an hour and a half.

     

    A 4 track video like this:

    http://vimeo.com/11073953

     

    took me about half an hour, including transitions and grading.

     

     

    As they say, each to his own.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 6, 2012 4:43 AM   in reply to piprod

    I just finished a 2 hour 20 minute musical production and yes, I did it as earlier explained. There were 5 cameras – one right, one left, one close up, one static and the last from above.

     

    Not saying it’s quick, but it works and , I think it works well.

     

     

     

    Frank

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 11, 2012 12:49 AM   in reply to FrankMac59

    Hi Frank, one of the most enjoyable and challenging videos that I had was a production of Grease. In the open air and "in the round", with a central stage. There were runways east, west, north and south, to reach sets for the milk bar, bedroom, school and garage. There were four 'compass' cameras, an overhead and a steadicam. Quite a challenge to ensure that everyone could be seen and that there were no jump cuts between cameras at different positions seeing the same performer.

     

    BTW I like the new multicam feature that lets you add an extra camera angle in the multicam output, by pressing CTRL(Option)+camera.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 11, 2012 5:28 AM   in reply to piprod

    I think I you guys are playing at the big end whereas I am a club hobbyist who enjoys the process, of learning as much as anything but is far from professional.

    This is probably reflected in the earlier posts on this thread when I had issues with expanded audio tracks not displaying the wave forms.

    It turne out I had accidentally set the sequence settings incorrectly for the codec I was using and the wheels fell off.

    An Adobe support guy from somewehre in the subcontinent  remotely took over my PC and dug around and found my error.

    Egg on face time!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 3, 2013 2:16 AM   in reply to Community Help

    Can someone please clarify this for me?

     

    There is a note on this page that says "In order to retain audio from more than one track simultaneously, mix all the desired tracks to a single track in the source sequence, select the resulting audio track, and deselect the Audio Follows Video option."

     

    I am drawing a complete blank regarding how to do this, and not for want of Googling. The two obvious interpretations of "mix all the desired tracks to a single track in the source sequence" would be to simply mix as normal to the master track, or to create a submix track and mix to that. However, when I drop the source sequence into the main sequence and enable multicam on it I can find no way to select either the master or the submix track, just the individual unmixed audio tracks relating to the video tracks.

     

    So what am I missing?...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 3, 2013 3:07 AM   in reply to TimB

    In the multi camera editing section, - and I think this still remains in CS6 – PremPro defaults to the audio on the first track from Camera 1 and ignores the sound from the other cameras at the stage when all the video tracks are combined into the new mixed sequence on which you run the multi channel monitor and do the switching. (It’s a while since I did this and only once in CS6 so that may explain why my terms are a bit vague but, I hope still understandable.)

     

    It does arise that you might find that you need to combine the audio from the other tracks +/- Audio 1 to give you the sound you want. If you are recording sound mainly from a desk, you might do this to grab the ambient audience sound, for example.

    The way you do this is synch and trim  to lenght all your tracks in the usual way, then  make sure that all tracks are hard up against the Zero time mark.  Then selectively mute the audio tracks you don’t want, retaining those you do as selected and then Export Media/Audio Only which will give you a resultant WAV file of exactly the same length and synch’d to your video (assuming of course that WAV is the output you chose.)

    You then import that audio file back into your project’s timeline, mute all the other tracks  and you have your combined desired track working and in sync with your synched video.

    Personally, I tend to move the other audio track down and shove the combined new track in Audio 1 as I just feel more comfortable have it there.

    You then shove that lot into your new sequence where you proceed to do the multicam switching.

     

    I hope this addresses your issue.

    Regards

     

    Frank

    Australia

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 3, 2013 2:20 PM   in reply to FrankMac59

    Thanks Frank - that's certainly one way to do it, although CS5 & CS6 both allow you to do slightly better than you suggest, and switch audio between the different individual audio tracks of the source videos - or not, if you disable 'Audio Follows Video'.

     

    But the note on this page that I was referring to seems to suggest that, as far as mixing the audio from more than one track in a multicamera source sequence goes, CS6 ought to be able to do better - letting you select the master or a submix, or something to that effect. Therefore I'd still like to know what the note actually means. Maybe someone from Adobe could enlighten us?

     

    Thanks,

    Tim

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 3, 2013 3:18 PM   in reply to TimB

    I didn't know that but then I didn't look either.

    I have been doing it roughly the same way since CS2 and 'if it ain't broke...' is good a lot of the time but sometimes things get past you.

    Thanks for the heads up, Tim.

    Frank

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 3, 2013 6:42 PM   in reply to FrankMac59

    I only read these recent posts, and have not done much multicam in CS6.

     

    Nothing regarding this has changed since CS3 or so, correct? The multicam sequence itself allows you to pick "audio follows video" (in which case, the corresonding audio track for the video is used - and no other, no mix etc) or not audio follows video, in which case you get audio one only.

     

    The help instruction means that you combine your multiple audio source tracks in a separate sequence, then put that sequence's audio in audio track one of the multicam source. I always did this after multicam editing the video, so I knew what I wanted in the audio. Then I would mute the audio 1 in the multicam output (so I could use it as reference) and add my edited audio in audio 2.

     

    Has anything changed?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 3, 2013 10:42 PM   in reply to Stan Jones

    According to the tutorial at http://www.video2brain.com/en/videos-13067.htm audio now defaults not to Track 1 of the source sequence as it used to, but to the video first selected when choosing between the multiple cameras.

    I understand TimB was wishing to mix audio in the audio mixer in the source sequences and apply that to the multicam sequence without export audio and re-importing.

    According to my notes to self in June 2012 when I used CS6 to do a multicam project, I wrote:

    “To enable audio for all cameras, right click on the Source Sequence and ‘Open in Timeline’

    Enable all the audio tracks you want.”

    And that was all.

     

    However the PremPro instructions for CS6 says:

     

    Enabling audio in the multi-camera source sequence

    By default, Premiere Pro only enables audio channel one in the multi-camera source sequence. For multi-camera editing workflow, enable each audio track manually before editing the target sequence. To enable audio tracks for the multi-camera source sequence, do the following:

    1. 1. Open the multi-camera source sequence by selecting the multi-camera source sequence icon in the Project panel, right-click

    (Win) or Ctrl-click (Mac OS) the icon, and then choose Open In Timeline.

    1. 2. The Timeline opens. Select the audio tracks, and then enable the other audio tracks by clicking the Toggle Track Output

    button for each audio track.

    1. 3. Now that all audio tracks are enabled, you can close the sequence

     

    This is how I remember it but it doesn’t gel with TimB’s post. There are two sections in the Help pdf, one for CS5.5 (and I think CS5) and a separate one for CS6 as quoted above.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 19, 2013 8:09 PM   in reply to Community Help

    I have a project with three cameras but multiple clips associated with each camera.  Two clips for one camera and six and eight clips each for the other two cameras.  I know how I could have built a source sequence in CS5 (I actually did it, and then discovered I can no longer turn it into a multi-camera source sequence), but I can't for the life of me figure out how to do it in CS6.  How do I tell it that, of the 16 clips I have, they belong to three cameras and then how do I get them all to sync?

     

    This new "way" doesn't work as well as the old way.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 19, 2013 8:22 PM   in reply to StevenPKT

    Never mind, I figured out to cut each camera at the same synchronized point in the big sequence with all clips, then copy that sequence three times, one for each camera, and then set an in point at the very beginning of each sequence, and then select those three sequences and make a multi-camera source sequence.  Not as elegant as before, but I guess it works.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 20, 2013 9:27 AM   in reply to StevenPKT

    Dude, the old way works perfectly fine in CS6.  The new way is just another option, not mandatory.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 25, 2013 11:24 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Folks, never forget the power of those Nested Sequences that snuck their way into this feature set relatively recent; it's gotten me out of many dead ends when Adobe failed to code particular features like this one (where there's no solution past that lossy recommendation of rendering out the WAV file of mixed tracks, then importing back and degrading the audio quality by rendering out again).  Here, you can make a Nested Sequence of one of the video tracks -- merely because including a video track is inexplicably mandatory -- and combine that with all of the audio tracks from your source sequence that you want to use.  Then drag that nested sequence into your source timeline, audio only, and drop it in at the same in point as the earliest in point of the original audio clips.  In practice, I keep the original audio tracks there which will be silenced anyway below Audio Track 1, and put the nested sequence's audio track onto Audio Track 1.

     

    That is the better way to do this, until Adobe bothers with a lossless solution.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 26, 2013 8:18 AM   in reply to hpmoon

    Couple of corrections.

     

    First, nested sequences have been around for a decade or so.  And using them for multicamera work has been the norm since multicamera came out, several versions back.

     

    Next, WAV files aren't lossy.  They're typically Uncompressed.  I agree it's not the most efficient method, but you don't lose any quality if you choose to use it.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 26, 2013 12:40 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim Simon wrote:

     

    Couple of corrections.

     

    First, nested sequences have been around for a decade or so.  And using them for multicamera work has been the norm since multicamera came out, several versions back.

     

    Next, WAV files aren't lossy.  They're typically Uncompressed.  I agree it's not the most efficient method, but you don't lose any quality if you choose to use it.

    Your "corrections" aren't really corrections.  Your first comment ignores (because of pride?) my addition of concluding advice about using nested sequences to achieve an objective being discussed in this thread regarding incorporation of multiple audio tracks.

     

    Your second comment is totally incorrect and once again ignored my detailed instructions.  The process of exporting a mix of tracks to a WAV file is initially lossless, but that's not what I'm referring to.  It's the step of importing it back in, then exporting it out again that causes signal degradation (thus, not "lossless") in comparison to my superior nested sequence approach.

     

    This is highly technical stuff, relied upon by countless Google searches.  Please be careful when you dispense advice guised definitively, especially with an "MVP ++++" badge (whatever that means).  Thanks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 26, 2013 4:25 PM   in reply to hpmoon

    It was only the "relatively recent" portion of your nested sequences comment I was correcting.  Nesting and all it's capable of has been around a while.

     

    You can export, import and reexport .wav files all day long without losing quality.  They're Uncompressed.  At worst, all you lose is editability with the 'collapsed' tacks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 4, 2013 2:20 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim Simon wrote:

     

    It was only the "relatively recent" portion of your nested sequences comment I was correcting.  Nesting and all it's capable of has been around a while.

     

    You can export, import and reexport .wav files all day long without losing quality.  They're Uncompressed.  At worst, all you lose is editability with the 'collapsed' tacks.

     

    Ugh.  Some people can't bear to be wrong.

     

    Even if there was a misunderstanding about the phrase "relatively recent," your clarification has zero value in terms of advancing this technical discussion.  It's just defensiveness.

     

    And you're still dead wrong about audio degradation, based on a fundamental misunderstanding of basic principles as well as practical reality.  You need to just accept and understand that rendering out a WAV source file or files into a new WAV file, mixing, then re-importing it back in, then rendering it back out again, is degraded in comparison to rendering out that original WAV source file or files to your final destination using the application's internal mixing.  You're hung up on the source files being lossless, while totally ignoring the non-lossless nature of the workflow you advocate.

     

    As I always say, people arrive at these threads from Google searches, and while looking for answers directly at this forum.  One nugget of bad advice can have thousand-fold impacts, over a long term, if not caught and corrected.  It's no small matter to get it right, and you didn't.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 4, 2013 4:44 PM   in reply to hpmoon

    You're hung up on the source files being lossless, while totally ignoring the non-lossless nature of the workflow you advocate.

     

    Alright, ignoring anything else for the moment, maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.  Just what do you think you're 'losing' when you export out a .wav file.  How do you think it's gets degraded compared to another work flow?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 4, 2013 10:07 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Jim Simon wrote:

     

    You're hung up on the source files being lossless, while totally ignoring the non-lossless nature of the workflow you advocate.

     

    Alright, ignoring anything else for the moment, maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.  Just what do you think you're 'losing' when you export out a .wav file.  How do you think it's gets degraded compared to another work flow?

     

    Lossless literally means you end up with a bit-for-bit duplicate, even though there are compression schemes that can accomplish it.  At that first stage of exporting out to a WAV file, it is a lossless export in terms of the output versus the guts stored into the file, but you have imposed lossy things upon the source audio at that export phase.  Re-importing it back in, you'll then subject it to further lossy things as a secondary pass against the original source integrity, only to export it ultimately again.  These "lossy" things range from simple stuff like attenuation or amplification, to audio filtering and anything else that Premiere throws at the sources.  It's a separate debate as to whether the degradation is audible to one set of ears or another, but we're talking in theory, and there's no good reason to chew apart the integrity of theoretical principles based simply on pragmatism (or more to the point, in loyal defense of Adobe).  It's simply preferable to keep any and all operations performed against source audio files limited to one stage of mixing before rendering out to a file container.

     

    Perhaps an easier analogous explanation is the moire effect we see in digital sensors.  You may be getting two lossless renditions of something, but with different characteristics between sensor and storage acquisition, the duplicity results in imperfect artifacts.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Mar 5, 2013 8:25 AM   in reply to hpmoon

    At that first stage of exporting out to a WAV file, it is a lossless export

     

    Here we agree.

     

     

    but you have imposed lossy things upon the source audio at that export phase.

     

    This I don't understand.  Can you explain further?  How exactly do you think an export alters the original source file?

     

     

    These "lossy" things range from simple stuff like attenuation or amplification, to audio filtering and anything else that Premiere throws at the sources.

     

     

    PP doesn't do those things without user intervention, meaning you added an effect, so I'm still not clear on what you think is being lost when you export a .wav file.

     
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  • FocusPulling (.com)
    9 posts
    May 9, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 16, 2013 8:49 PM   in reply to Ron Fredericks

    I brought up a bigger issue today during a rather high-profile Connect session today with Adobe, who were publicly introducing new features in Premiere CC.  Either pretending to be, or literally never hearing about it, they had no answer (other than the default suspicion of a slow system that definitely does not apply here).

     

    Basically, the only way to watch footage in the Multi-Camera Monitor is to have that monitor be the active panel.  This is OK during a rough, first shot at switching between cameras.  Anyone with more than amateur aspirations, though, proceeds next to fine-tune cuts in the Timeline panel where the actual sequence is.  If you dare start playback while the Timeline panel is active, to monitor playback in the still-visible Multi-Camera monitor -- no dice.  No ganged playback, and not because of any setting.  It's just a widely-reported, oft-complained about bug in the program.  Adobe has done nothing in the past several years to even issue a response, let alone fix the problem.  This sounds rather whiny, no doubt, but after the tenth time mentioning it, falling on deaf ears:  time for action.

     
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