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Lady Kaguya
Currently Being Moderated

Brushes Stokes Lag Severely, CS6

Jun 28, 2012 11:52 AM

Tags: #photoshop #help #adobe #delay #lag #brush #slow #cs6 #strokes

Things that I have tried:

  • Updated to the latest tablet driver
  • Updated to the latest adobe patch
  • Updated to the latest GPU driver
  • Set to 'Basic', in Graphic Processor Settings
  • Completely unchecked Graphic Processor Settings
  • Closed out of all programs/processes
  • restarted computer multiple times
  • cleaned computer of any possible virus threats
  • Thoroughly have read various FAQs/other members threads here or elsewhere on the Internet

 

My system:

Windows 7 Proffesional (32bit)

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6000+ 3.10GHz

4.00 GBs RAM

Geforce 9600 GT

Wacom Tablet, intuos4

 

Notes:

  • It lags significantly--huge problem for a illustrator, it makes it completely unusable. If I do a quick stroke, or multiple ones for colouring/so forth, it can take a good 3-10sec lag.
  • Everything else in PS seems to run fine. Start up is semi-quick, files load/save, filters work, etc. All at the same pace I was used to when I used CS2. Except brush strokes.
  • Other programs I got (Illustrator, Flash, etc) work fine. When I use brush/mouse for those, it does not lag.
  • It will lag even if I use my mouse.
  • The smaller the document/brush size, the better it works. However I cannot compromise with that, as I usually have to work big or use large brushes.
  • I only use one graphics card

 

I'm drawing to the conclusion that my GPU is either too outdated or is not properly supported. I can understand a lag at high resolution, but it was doing this at even a small one, e.g. 1000px by 1000px. Though I know I don't have the fanciet of computers, I was almost sure I met the requirements.

 

If anyone can help, that would be great.

 
Replies
  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2012 12:20 PM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    While display driver glitches can, I'm pretty sure, break just about anything, I don't think the painting/brushing process in general uses the GPU much.

     

    Have you checked for updated display drivers from nVidia.com?  I ask because some folks check Microsoft.com and those would be almost certainly outdated.

     

    FYI, I can't invoke any noticeable lag in a 1000 x 1000 pixel image, even with a brush almost as big as the image, so it's not a systemic problem with Photoshop CS6.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jun 28, 2012 12:21 PM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    One other thing...  What do you have your Brush Spacing value set to?

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jun 28, 2012 12:30 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I lied - two other things...  Are you using the Mixer Brush, and if so are you using Sample All Layers?

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jun 28, 2012 2:34 PM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    I don't have a preset brush called "Round Point Stiff", but I have one called "Round Point", with which I can set the stiffness.

     

    Even with the largest size posssible, and with an increased count of bristles, etc. I can't get any visible lag in a 1000 x 1000 pixel 16 bits/channel image.

     

    I have a reasonably modern, powerful workstation, but unless your computer was built 10 years ago I can't imagine going from "no perceptable lag whatsoever" to "3-10 seconds".  What I don't have is a tablet, I'm brushing with my mouse.

     

    Just to verify we're on the same page, this is how I'm testing...

     

    BrushTesting.jpg

     

    I may have misspoke earlier.  I don't know for sure that the bristle brushes don't use the GPU.  I have a modest Visiontek ATI Radeon HD 5670 1 GB DDR5 video card that's a couple of years old.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2012 11:14 PM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    I've also been experiencing this or something similar and reported it in someone else's thread who also has. -> PS CS6 Extremely slow and sluggish. Brush tool delay.

    Trying to find commonalities, it seems to affect very different systems and software configurations. Both ATI and Nvidia cards, 32 and 64 bit, OS X and Windows. Are you using a SSD?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 10:36 AM   in reply to Zaise

    Out of curiosity, did any of you seeing a brush slowdown enable "Allow Tool Recording" in the actions palette?

     
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    Jul 2, 2012 1:57 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    I don't have it enabled.

    I'm currently working on a new document and am experiencing less lags. It's 8 bit Lab instead of 16 bit Lab and ~200MB instead of ~900MB on disk.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2012 9:19 AM   in reply to Zaise

    Darn, that would have been too easy an answer (tool recording creates a LOT of data, and can slow down brushing).

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jul 2, 2012 12:02 PM   in reply to Chris Cox

    For what it's worth last night I went through a whole BUNCH of brushes and tried a lot of different stuff (basically, all the presets).  It all seemed pretty interactive, even with the biggest possible brushes.

     

    Keeping in mind I don't have a tablet, I did notice that changing Spacing to 1% can cause some slowdown over the default 2% - and of course it makes strokes smoother in some cases.  At 1% and with the largest possible brush sizes the lag became noticeable, but overall I'd say the worst of the brushes was still pretty responsive.  I wouldn't say it pushed things into "unacceptable" territory.

     

    But that got me to thinking - a mouse just moves a cursor.  A tablet does other stuff, like changing pressure, brush angle, possibly rotation...

     

    Could using a tablet just generate a LOT more events or at a faster rate than a mouse?

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2012 12:33 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel, we're talking about standard behaviour being impaired beyond normal. Slowdown with large and complex brushes is normal, but it's of a different nature. Simple brushes used with a tablet are expected to run smoothly. As I mentioned in the other thread, when I experienced the problem, it also affected very simple brushes, and even made opening a menu in photoshop visibly laggy. My problem may be different from the one described by the thread starter.

    I'm not sure, but keeping within my RAM limit, the problem may not be appearing. Slower performance is of course expected when exceeding RAM, but it never presented in the way it seems to now. If anything, I expected faster performance after installing an SSD and more RAM.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2012 5:53 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Noel Carboni wrote:

     

    For what it's worth last night I went through a whole BUNCH of brushes and tried a lot of different stuff (basically, all the presets).  It all seemed pretty interactive, even with the biggest possible brushes.

     

    Keeping in mind I don't have a tablet, I did notice that changing Spacing to 1% can cause some slowdown over the default 2% - and of course it makes strokes smoother in some cases.  At 1% and with the largest possible brush sizes the lag became noticeable, but overall I'd say the worst of the brushes was still pretty responsive.  I wouldn't say it pushed things into "unacceptable" territory.

     

    But that got me to thinking - a mouse just moves a cursor.  A tablet does other stuff, like changing pressure, brush angle, possibly rotation...

     

    Could using a tablet just generate a LOT more events or at a faster rate than a mouse?

     

    -Noel

    it won't really replicate the same thing it if you're not using a tablet, because pressure sensitivity adds a whole other layer of complexity to everything the brush is doing.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 3, 2012 10:59 AM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    In the menu of Actions panel, ensure Allow Tool Recording is not ticked.

     

    Tool-Recording.png

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 3, 2012 11:01 AM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    Thinking "outside the box"... 

     

    You could conceivably throw a little money at the problem, and upgrade to a new video card to replace your aging 9600.  I'd suggest a VisionTek ATI Radeon HD 7750 as an example of a good, modern card that's about twice as powerful as your current card, and surely doesn't suffer from the same driver glitches.  Or if your computer has a capable power supply and you have a little deeper pocket, the 7850 model is quite a bit more powerful still.

     

    I don't have a 7750 myself, but one of its predecessors, a less powerful 5670.  If I'm seeing smooth brush strokes with this card then it's pretty clear ATI cards run painting in Photoshop pretty well.

     

    Of course, this assumes the problem isn't in the tablet driver or something else that will remain invariant.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 3, 2012 4:27 PM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    Lady Kaguya wrote:

     

    Thanks for explaining that^; I just checked, and I do not have it ticked.

     

    I'm leaning to the assumption that it's my card. It should have worked okay, but yes--aging and prone to less assistance when it comes to updates, plus glitches and what not. I have been wanting to upgrade for a long time anyway. I can think of no other options at this time. Though granted, I'm more of a Nividia person, no hard feelings on Radeon. (unless someone wants to encourage the use of a Radeon over Nivida?)

    did switching off gpu accelleration make a difference to the tools you're using? i find it's more down to raw cpu horse power rather than gpu for brushstrokes... it may payoff waiting for the little bugfix upgrade photoshop gets a few months after release (if you can)

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 3, 2012 7:07 PM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    I prefer ATI over nVidia.  I develop OpenGL software and have found the ATI drivers of a higher quality, generally speaking, than nVidia's.  You might have an easier time with the software if you buy a newer nVidia card.  Sometimes changing brands can be touchy, since one has to go find and ferret out all the old nVidia software before the ATI software will work perfectly.

     

    That said, it may be moot...  Iwouldntknow might have a very good point above:  I've been tacitly running on the assumption that your system has a fairly powerful CPU and we should be able to compare our systems fairly directly, but though our clock speeds are similar I neglected to notice that you have 1/4 the number of cores I do, and that could make a substantial difference in how quickly things will run.  I can't definitely say a video card change would make a big diffference for you in this matter.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 3, 2012 7:09 PM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    Lady Kaguya wrote:

     

    I did fiddle with the option and it didn't change much

     

    Not to belabor the point, but very specifically:  Did you close and restart Photoshop after you turned off the [  ] Use graphics processor setting and before testing?  That could mask changes you'd otherwise see.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Pierre Courtejoie
    7,038 posts
    Jan 11, 2006
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    Jul 4, 2012 1:24 AM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    Lady Kaguyga, what is not standard on your machine? dual screen, is Ps installed at the default location? does an anti-virus run? any other programs?

    Does the other who report issues also use AMD processors?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2012 9:01 PM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    You should always respect and honor the default installation location.

     

    Adobe applications really want to be installed in their default location on your boot volume, the same volume where your OS resides.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2012 11:21 PM   in reply to station_two

    >>> Adobe applications really want to be installed in their default location on your boot volume, the same volume where your OS resides.

     

    If that solves the issue, I'm going to have strong words for somebody in Adobe....

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 5, 2012 10:41 AM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    have you tried exporting the brushes that you work with in cs2 (save tool presets) and imported them into cs6 to see how they run for you (import tool presets)?

     

    also worth checking the preferences/ performance to see if ps is set to use an amount of your ram in the "ideal" range?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 7, 2012 5:11 AM   in reply to Lady Kaguya

    hmmm. all that comes to mind is maybe getting one of those benchmarking apps that tests your whole system. maybe some driver conflict is throttling some component's speed down. perhaps reseat your ram and run memtest.  but it really does sound photoshop specific if even your mouse is lagging. if you're seeing lag at 1000x1000 i don't think it could be underpowered hardware.

    really the next step up for you hardware wise, would be a 64bit system that'd let you use more than 4gig of ram.

    would it be practical for you to swap in a new c drive and reinstal a clean system to see if that fixes it?

     
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  • Noel Carboni
    23,455 posts
    Dec 23, 2006
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    Jul 7, 2012 7:01 AM   in reply to iwouldntknow

    +1 to iwouldntknow's idea about doing a system benchmark.  Perhaps the problem lies in all our assumptions about what kind of performance your system is providing.

     

    I like the Passmark benchmark because it seems pretty thorough, and you can compare scores to many others who have run it.  You can run it as a free trial.

     

    http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm

     

    -Noel

     
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    Aug 14, 2012 11:37 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    i am using photoshop cs6 extended on a fast pc with windows 7. when i select "Sample All Layers" and paint a stroke, photoshop slows to a crawl. i get the wait icon and a small stroke can take 2 or 3 seconds to appear. a large stroke can take much longer. this does not happen with photoshop cs5.

    i tried turning on and off "use graphics processor" in the preferences (with a restart), but that did not change anything.

    i am working with a large document (6300x5100) with 7 layers. but like i said, i can do this in cs5 on the same computer without a problem.

    this has to be some sort of bug i think.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 14, 2012 12:14 PM   in reply to brad5151

    "sample all layers?" is this the smudge tool rather than a paint brush?

    there is definately a bug in the cs6 smudge tool that makes it significantly slower, and it's behaviour different

    see here: http://forums.adobe.com/message/4317763#4317763

     
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    Aug 14, 2012 1:11 PM   in reply to iwouldntknow

    sorry. wish i could edit my old post. this is using the "mixer brush tool".

     
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