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.LRBAK Files

Jun 28, 2012 7:45 AM

I probably already know the answer to this, but I can't find anything here, and searching online gives conflicting info.

 

Recently I imported some DNG files from another catalog back into my primary catalog and specifically replaced the original DNG files with those that came from the imported catalog.

 

In my images folders(s) are IMG_xxxx.dng.lrbak files. I assume these are nothing but backups of the original files and that it's safe to delete them.

 

I also can't find any checkbox anytwhere that controls the creation of them. I don't recall seeing a checkbox for this either on the catalog import diaglog either.

 

(LR version is 4.1 on Windows 7)

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2012 8:05 AM   in reply to JS4653

    They are temporary files that should have been deleted unless something didn’t work correctly during the updating of the non-lrback version of each file. 

     

    Theoretically it should be ok to delete them but since LR wasn’t able to, itself, it might be wise to move them to somewhere else until you’re comfortable things are ok with the newer ones, and also make sure you have the non-lrbak of each of file, first. 

     

    If every DNG you had imported from the other catalog has a duplicated LRBAK file then perhaps LR has a bug, and finding a simple process to replicate the error might be useful to Adobe so they can correct the issue.

     
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  • Victoria Bampton
    4,792 posts
    Apr 1, 2008
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    Jun 28, 2012 11:06 AM   in reply to JS4653

    Sounds like there could be a permissions issue involved, since we're involving 2 computers.  Can you replicate it on a single computer and user account?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 28, 2012 5:47 PM   in reply to JS4653

    A permissions problem could arise if the user on the current computer does not have full permissions to the file so LR cannot delete it (or at least thinks it cannot delete it)—for example files copied from the other computer might be readonly or have read/write but not delete permissions.  The mechanism for moving the images and catalogs between computers was not described, so some questions are in order:  do the catalog and/or images reside on an external drive that you move from one computer to the other, or are you connecting across a network share from one computer to another, and is this connection via a UNC path ( \\ server \ share ) or is there a drive-letter that might mask the server-share?  Do the files get transferred/opened from within LR or are you using an Explorer drag-and-drop/copy-paste or DOS COPY or XCOPY to transfer the files?  And if you are connecting via the network, are you using the same user on both computer, and are you using a domain-account or is this a simple workstation-type setup at home?  Are you using the same user on both computers and do those users have the same permissions and are they both Administrator users on each computer.

     

    If it is a permissions issue then not being able to replicate it on the local computer makes sense because you’re using the same user with the same file-system in both databases; however, there is another possible scenario that could cause the problem that might also be different between computers compared to on the same one at least as far as you’ve tested things:  is the path to the image in the LR database the same on both computers when there are two computers but different on the single computer, and if the paths are different, is the drive-letter the only thing that is different between the two computers?  I am suspicious that LR might have an inconsistency in handling the create-copy/rename/delete-old-version that it would use when the path is the same or almost the same compared to if the path is different.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 6:26 AM   in reply to JS4653

    When you tested on the same computer and didn’t have the issue, did you use the local computer’s DropBox folder as the Export destination and the Import source location, or just another regular folder on the computer?  It’s possible that DropBox is synchronizing (reading-from and perhaps locking) the files as they are being imported and that is confusing Lightroom.  I don’t use DropBox in this way to know how well it stays out-of-the-way if you are actively using the files.  A way to avoid DropBox and LR both touching the files at the same time, you could use Explorer to move the catalog and DNGs to another local folder outside of the DropBox structure before using that new location as the source of the import.

     

    To be able to import the new DNGs are you having to open the catalog that resides within the DropBox folder(s) and do an Update Folder Location to rebind the DNGs to the DropBox local path on the computer before importing, or do you have an identical DropBox path on each computer so that shouldn’t be necessary?

     

    And a question about your method in general, why do you have to put the DNGs into the DropBox folder on the way back since they already exist at the original location?  Can’t you just import the catalog and update the metadata and previews rather than replacing the DNG files, or are some of the DNGs new from the other computer and it’s easier to not care which ones already exist and which ones are new?  I only use exported catalogs for archival purposes and open those catalogs directly if I need to find an old image, so I’ve never imported from an exported catalog to know if my question even makes sense.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 10:38 AM   in reply to JS4653

    The structure BENEATH the Dropbox folder would be the same, yes.  I am asking about the physical path ABOVE the Dropbox folder—C:\Users\username\Documents\My Dropbox is the native root on my computer where the usernames being different would be something.  Lightroom has to know the entire absolute path to each photo not just the path under the root folder that you see within Lightroom.

     

    I understand why exporting and importing the catalog is important for having all history states available, my quibble was why do you need to copy the DNGs back since that is a lot of data and leads to overwriting your existing DNGs which aren’t any different than those from the far side except they might have newer embedded previews or a newer metadata snapshot.

     

    I would be a little nervous putting the main LR database under the DropBox folder structure even if you turn the sync off, because if you ever forgot and somehow DropBox thought the remote location was newer it could overwrite your newer edits with the older database.  You may have more of a comfort level with doing this.

     

    If you are really curious what is happening to a particular DNG file, you can use Microsoft SysInternals Process Monitor to show LR’s file-system activity, including any failed operations.  There is an enormous amount of data continuously collected so filtering to only the Lightroom and DropBox processes as well as dropping filtered (non-displayed) events is probably necessary.

     

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb545046

     
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  • Victoria Bampton
    4,792 posts
    Apr 1, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 1:10 PM   in reply to JS4653

    I've only quickly skimmed the conversation that's gone on since my last post, but I just wanted to say I wouldn't rule out the permissions on the Dropbox files.  I've had a recent InDesign crashing bug, which ended up being traced back to folder permissions on one of the parent dropbox folders.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 1:27 PM   in reply to JS4653

    You do not have to copy the remote DNGs back to the main computer to have your main computer DNGS updated with the current edits is all I’m trying to say:  After you import the temporary catalog from machine 2 back into the main one on machine 1, the current edits will be in your main LR catalog, where you can just select the DNGs that were edited on the remote computer and use the Update DNG Previews and Metadata (or whatever the menu command is called) to push the current edits from the database into those DNGs without having to also copy the actual DNG files from the remote computer, right?  LR contains the master copy of the edits so it is sufficient to update the main computer DNGs’ metadata from the LR database. 

     

    And otherwise, I am still trying to understand how LR has the right paths to the photos in the little catalog you sync via DropBox.  Referring to steps 2 and 3 in your first reply to my first reply, what is the FULL PATH (driver-letter to DNG extension) to the exported negative files on the remote computer and what is the FULL PATH to the newer-copy of the DNGs in their temporary location on the main computer BEFORE you import them into the main LR database and folder structure?

     

    For reference, here are the two steps I’m referring to:

     

    3) on this second computer, select those photos and export to another catalog, include the negative files

     

    4) on computer 1, import the catalog you just created on the 2nd computer. Make sure you have the option to "replace metadata, negative files, (...et al)" chosen.

     

    My theory as to what could be wrong is that the path to the exported DNGs on the remote computer which is what is stored in the little exported database, is not identical to the path of the import-source for the DNGs on the main computer when you’ve synced them back to the main computer before importing, and so LR is confused about what it is doing.  The additional details of what the full paths should help validate or invalidate the theory.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 2:32 PM   in reply to JS4653

    Ok, I see you’ve used the Advanced DropBox configuration and constructed your folders to be consistent across your two computers.  When in reply 10 you said you had different users on each computer that made me think the paths above the Dropbox root were different and using the Typical or Default settings that would be the situation.   I’ve had DropBox for so long I’m not sure if there even was a way to specify exactly where the DropBox folders would be, to create a consistent path on each computer, or maybe I just chose the default location which is different if the logged-in user is different.

     

    About the only thing I can think of is that the casing of the paths or the drive-letter is somehow different between the two DropBox folder structures and so LR thinks they are different in some areas and the same in other areas—there have been bugs with this sort of thing in the past because on a Mac the casing of the paths does matter, whereas on Windows it doesn’t, and some of the Mac logic got into the Windows file-handling areas.  Maybe ProcMon can ferret this out.

     

    In light of what Victoria said, though, it might be worth checking the effective permissions to your current user of the folder under the DropBox root that contains the DNGs that seemed to not work, checking these permissions on both computers.  You can check permissions using Right-click / Properties / Security, etc.   Are both computers workgroup computers or domain computers or does one reside on a domain-controller account and one is a home computer without such security?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 4:41 PM   in reply to JS4653

    Does it happen if you use the flash drive on the same computer, or do the files have to have been touched or the catalog exported from the other computer?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2012 7:46 AM   in reply to JS4653

    Presumably you imported the actual DNG files (unlike my advice to leave them alone), since that is the only thing that would cause the DNGs to be replaced in the way that was causing LRBAK files to be created.

     

     

     

    Maybe there is a casing difference somewhere in the path when you Export on the remote computer that doesn’t happen if you just use the catalog as is.

     
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