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Using InDesign's Drop Shadow Effects. Good or Bad?

Jun 29, 2012 9:59 AM

Tags: #publishing #printing #indesign_cs5 #book

I'm laying out a book in InDesign 5.5. The book gets sent as a PDF to the book publisher. The book has about 400 photos in it that many are wrapped in the text (Text Wrap). My question is: What are the pitfalls or problems that might accrue if I apply a drop shadow to the photos using InDesign's drop shadow feature?

 

I see two check boxes in the Drop Shadow Effects dialog box:

 

Object Knocks Out Shadow & Shadow Honors Other Effects. I'm guessing I want the object to knock out the shadow?

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 10:36 AM   in reply to iRuss

    You are most likely going to want to knock out the shadow. There are times when you might want to do otherwise, but unless you are very familiar with overprint and knockout, I  would reccomend staying away. Here is more information on the subject: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/indesign/cs/using/WSa285fff53dea4f86173837 51001ea8cb3f-7038a.html

     

    The only pitfall I can think of in aesthetics. Drop shadows are used best when used subtley. To make your job easier, instead of individually applying a drop shadow to your objects, you might want to apply an object style. This would allow you to easily make changes to all the objects with the drop shadow effect. More on that here: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/indesign/cs/using/WS5CEDB81A-0011-4dc9-9DE 8-AC7AD4C80076a.html

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 10:59 AM   in reply to iRuss

    Here are the visual effects of these options, they only come into play if the object you are applying the drop shadow has another transparent effect applied.

    dropshadows2.png

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 11:07 AM   in reply to iRuss

    This I am not as familiar with, but I would reccomend going to the default [High Resolution] for print. You should take a look at this document: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/indesign/cs/using/WSa285fff53dea4f86173837 51001ea8cb3f-6ea7a.html

     

    Someone else might be able to provide better direction though.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 11:07 AM   in reply to iRuss

    Honestly…in the year 2012 you shouldn’t be flattening transparency so it’s pretty safe to ignore it unless you’re dealing with luddite printers.

     

     

     

    Bob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 29, 2012 12:04 PM   in reply to iRuss

    In that case, the best advice I can give you is to design accordingly and that may well mean minimizing the use of transparency.

     

     

     

    Bob

     
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  • Rob Day
    2,329 posts
    Oct 16, 2007
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    Jun 29, 2012 2:00 PM   in reply to iRuss

    For some reason tears ago I was having problem with appiling drop shadows and other effects and it was looking screwy when it printed. Someone said to make a different setting in the "Transparency Flattener Presets" dialog box.

     

    Transparent pages always get flattened when you print, and usually you can control how the flattening happens from the Advanced tab by picking a preset.

     

    When you export a PDF transparency gets flattened when you choose PDF 1.3 from the Compatibility popup in General. So, the PDF/X-1a standard is flattened by you , while the PDF/X-4 standard postpones flattening until the PDF is printed.

     

    99% of the time the default high resolution flattener preset will be fine—if you had a lot of very small type on a transparent page you might need a text resolution higher than 1200.

     

    If you export your own transparency it's easy enough to look at the quality in Acrobat. Here's an exaggerated low res flattener where I've forced the text to rasterize vs. the default high res:

     

    Screen shot 2012-06-29 at 4.47.48 PM.png

    Screen shot 2012-06-29 at 4.47.15 PM.png

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2012 2:36 AM   in reply to iRuss

    That depends. Are the images REALLY grayscale, or are they RGB with a B&W Adjsutment applied, or perhaps a color image withthe color info removed in some other way?

     

    If they're RGB, you're probably seeing the effect of having the transparency flattener space set to CMYK, bu tif htey are really grayscale, waht you are seeing is due to ID not having any notion of a grayscale source profile. Grayscale data is ooutput onthe Black black of the current CMYK working profile, and introducing transparency (including the drop shadow) forced ID to redo the screen preview. Rob has given a pretty good explanation of this, I think, at http://forums.adobe.com/message/3469367#3469367

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Jul 2, 2012 9:10 AM   in reply to iRuss

    it looks like I'm screwed as far as applying the drop shadow in InDesign.

     

    Keep in mind this is simply a preview change the output numbers are not affected—when you add transparency the document's CMYK profile is always used to display black values. The output gray values are not changing.

     

    I don't have a clue want to pick.

     

    The accuracy of your CMYK preview depends on the accuracy of the document's assigned CMYK profile and your system's moniter profile. So if your only concern is matching the preview of a grayscale in PS and ID, pick your ID document's CMYK profile (see Edit>Assign Profiles...) from your system's profile folder.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2012 9:15 AM   in reply to iRuss

    First, make sure you are in Photoshop (presumably you are or you wouldn't see Load Gray), then when you click the Load Gray link a dialog should open. With luck it will already be open to the folder on your system where ICC profiles are stored, and all you have to do is pick the same profile that's listed for CMYK in your color settings, whcih you can read in the field above the grayscale field you are working on. If you don't see profiles, you'll have to navigate to the correct folder. On Windows that would be C:\Windows\System 32\Spool\drivers\color and on Mac I think it's the Color Sync folder, probably in the system Library (search for *.icc and something ought to come up).

     

    Save this custom settings file someplace conveneinet and use it in ID as well (synch through Bridge, if possible).

     

    Unless you can get an accurate profile from the printer, though, you are shooting in the dark and may not get what you expect regardless of what you do on your end. In such cases the best bet is to see if they can accept a PDF/X-4 file which leaves your colors unchanges and embeds the profiles for their RIP to do the conversion. Not all of the print-on-demand type of service providers will accept that, however.

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Jul 2, 2012 10:18 AM   in reply to iRuss

    Is it the same case when I view the PDF, that is the image will still keep it's output numbers from Photoshop?

     

    Yes. You can track the output numbers in all 3 apps via Info panel in PS, Separation Preview in ID and Output Preview in Acrobat.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2012 10:51 AM   in reply to iRuss

    Genereic CMYK isn't a particularly useful output profile -- it doesn't match anything.

     

    Try making a couple of copies of one of your grayscales, then on one Edit > Assign profile and pick the new gray profile, and on the other Edit > Convert to Profile to the same new profile and determine which on, if either, seems to be more correct. Place them both in a sample ID file that uses the Generic CMYK profile as the working space, and apply the drop shadows. They ought not to change.

     

    Choosing whether convert or assign is giving you the results you want is going to be a judgement call. Assigning will leave the gray values alone, converting will change them so they appear the same in the new space, but since the genericc profile doesn't match your output intent, I'm not sure that it's going to help you. How did you arrive at the use of Generic CMYK for a working space?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2012 11:11 AM   in reply to iRuss

    Windows or Mac?

     

    What part of the world are you in?

     

    There should be at least a dozen, maybe a hundred or more, cmyk profiles loaded on your system someplace. Did you do a file search for *.icc? That should pick up the folders where they are being stored.

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Jul 2, 2012 11:20 AM   in reply to iRuss

    But I came across this. I went to View>Proof Setup>Custom and picked "Generic CMYK"

     

     

    Proof Setup shows you what will happen if you convert to the setup profile sometime in the future, so it's not helpful because you won't be converting to Generic CMYK.

     

    What system are you using and what't your ID document's CMYK profile? You can check the doc profile by choosing Edit>Assign Profiles...

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Jul 2, 2012 11:34 AM   in reply to iRuss

    Do I now need to do a "Covert to Profile" to all my Grayscale images before bringing them into InDesign, or just leave them alone?

    Convert to Profile is not an option if you want to use a CMYK profile as the Gray space. If you use a CMYK profile as the destination when you convert to profile the mode will change to CMYK, so you definately do not want to do that.

     

    Loading a CMYK profile as the Gray working space simply previews the gray values as they would print on the black plate of the CMYK press printing to the chosen profile's spec's.

     

    Not sure where Separation Preview is in ID.

     

    Window>Output>Separations Preview

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2012 11:40 AM   in reply to iRuss

    ALL CMYK profiles are descriptive of some specific output device, or an output standard. SWOP (Specification for Web Offset Printing) is a generic CMYK standard that is achievable on almost any press (it was designed for high-speed, high-volume printing like magazines) and would be preferable to the profile you've currently chosen. Absent some specific recommendation from the printer, this should give acceptable, if not spectacular, results in the US.

     

    Did you make a note of where those profiles you found are stored? You're going to nned to navigat to that folder to select the CMYK profile to assign to the grays.

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Jul 2, 2012 11:43 AM   in reply to iRuss

    The Adobe recommended profiles should be here:

     

    System/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles

     

    But profiles can also be in:

     

    Users/user/Library/ColorSync/

     

    System/Library/ColorSync/Profiles

     

    The CMYK Profile is set on "U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2" in the Assign Profiles dialog box. Should that be changed?

     

    What kind of press will print the project?

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Jul 2, 2012 12:15 PM   in reply to iRuss

    Is there an Application Support folder in your Sytem

     

    /Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles/Recommended

     

    Screen shot 2012-07-02 at 3.11.05 PM.png

     

     

    POD halftone quality is marginal, so don't expect much. You should be able to order a sample at little cost.

     

    US SWOP or US Sheetfed.

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Jul 2, 2012 12:25 PM   in reply to iRuss

    I think POD is usually an HP Indigo so you could search for HP Indigo Profiles. Here's one for semi matte paper:

     

    http://www.newselfpublishing.com/HPIndigo.zip

     

    Just make sure you don't do any converting, otherwise your grayscales will get converted to 4-color.

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Jul 2, 2012 12:26 PM   in reply to iRuss

    The HP Indigo profile I linked to above is closer to SWOP than Sheetfed.

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Jul 2, 2012 1:12 PM   in reply to iRuss

    When I do find out, what are the steps I need ot change the icc?

     

    In ID you choose Edit>Assign Profiles>Assign CMYK Profile and choose from the pop-up

     

    In PS you load the profile as per Peter's instructions,and then you also have to make sure the working Gray space you've loaded is assigned to the grayscale image—that's Edit>Assign Profile>choose Working Gray.

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Jul 2, 2012 2:44 PM   in reply to iRuss

    I liked the days when I had a soft proof done and I calibrated my monitor to it.

     

    There's nothing stopping you from doing that now, but it would only work if you were always preparing jobs for one press. If you had three jobs, one for sheetfed coated, one for a web press, and one for news print, you'd quickly run into a mess because you'd have to change the profile of your monitor every time you worked on a file—those three press conditions will produce different color from the same values.

     

    CMYK profiles also have some subtlties that you can't acheive by adjusting your monitor. Modern profiles will show the difference between blacks with different amounts of CMY in them, or different ink sets—no amount of monitor adjusting will show those differences.

     

    Here are different blacks for uncoated. The preview shows what would happen on press with different CMY amounts. This is why ID flattens out your grayscales because black only on press is never absolute black:

     

    Black.png

     
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  • Rob Day
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    Jul 3, 2012 8:55 AM   in reply to iRuss

    So if I have to set my monitor to a setting that works close enough for this book I'm working on now, that would be fine for me.

    You don't have to adjust your monitor. For grayscales there is Custom Dot Gain which gives you a curve dialog that allows you to adjust the display of grayscales with out changing the output numbers (Color Setting>Gray>Custom Dot Gain...):

     

    Screen shot 2012-07-03 at 11.47.43 AM.png

     

    If you adjust your monitor without creating a new monitor profile it will generally break color management in all of the Adobe apps.

     
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