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Audio Out of Sync - Why and How to Correct

Jun 30, 2012 11:45 AM

I nested two 90 minute clips from 2 separate cameras which were both shot in AVCHD. I am using Premiere CS 5.5 . As a former FCP editor, whenever audio went out of sync, a message in FCP came up immediately and told you the audio was out of sync and it was an easy fix. How come Premiere is minus such an important feature?

 

I shoot stage productions where there may be music but no dialogue so chercking sync becomes rather difficult. After finishing a 2 hour video, I found the audio was out of sync in the nested sequences. Is there any way to auto resync the audio automatically?

 

Seems to me that Premiere Pro is a sub Pro App if simple audio sync is so hard to maintain in nested sequences. Makes nesting a sequence a waste of time if you have to redo the edit as a reslut of audio out of sync.

 
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 30, 2012 12:58 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    >problem everyone runs into

     

    I edit AVCHD and do not have that problem

     

    Do be aware (in case you are not... ignore if you are) that the "approved" way to get AVCHD from camera to hard drive is to copy the entire folder, not just the files

     

    Read http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1015001?tstart=0 for more information

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 30, 2012 3:06 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    >you Adobe guys

     

    Not me... I'm just another user trying to help on this user to user forum... Adobe employees are identified with either Employee or Staff next to their name... where you and I have the word Member

     
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    Jun 30, 2012 3:32 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    Well Adobe does have the better "project" ( product) bcause your beloved FCP is no longer a  product.

     

    Nothing stopping you continuing to use your original FCP7 though!

     

    As regards your issue (and assumeably you are on a Mac)...why not see if other Mac users confirm "Adobes dirty little secret" before you go on the "fcp is perfect why cant PPRO also be so" rant.

     

    In the interest of more information...what have you done about trouble shooting this your self?

     

    Have you tried a sequence without nesting anything?

     

    Is it OOS in the sequence and the export?

     

    BTW: Generally an OOS indicator comes up when you unlink audio / video.  

    In your edit are you using the linked audio or an external recorded piece?  (You mabe experiencing device drift)

     

    For the record - on a PC with AVCHD...I do not experience your issue.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 30, 2012 3:46 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    Prior to working in Multicam mode did you check to see if the audio video was in synch?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 30, 2012 4:14 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    Ignoring your condescending "listen shooternz"  and the lecturing analogy...but trying to help you at the same time.

     

    Somehow you have established that it goes out of synch in the nest

     

    You did not say if the original time lines  were fine past 1/3 before you nested them. (ie did you check near the end)

     

    How have you eliminated Multicam (and maybe the way you use it) from the OOS issue?

     

    If you create and then playback  either edit as a nest ( before multicam) ..do both streams maintain synch?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 30, 2012 5:01 PM   in reply to martinv2012
    My complaint is that Premiere does not have a safe guard to alert you when audio goes out of sync.

     

     

    Actually, it does.  You'll see a +/- time indicator on both the audio and video portion of clips that are out of sync.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 30, 2012 5:29 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    Yes the original timeline is fine up to about 1/3 into the video

     

    So you are actually saying that original edit sequence goes out of synch after 1/3.

     

    (ie. 1 camera with continuous single stream of  video/ audio is OOS. after 1/3 progress and assumeably the other camera is doing exactly the same thing)

     

    That means the multicam nest will be out as well.

     

    What camera, what codec, what project setings?

     
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    Jun 30, 2012 7:34 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    1080i  ...not a progressive project setting? Did you match the project to the source footage?  (How?)

     

    Have you actually confirmed (to us forum readers) that the original sequence from either or both cameras is in synch all the way thru?

     

    Was it a continuous camera roll on each camera or have you edited it from stop start source footage?

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 1, 2012 1:46 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    Its always interesting when some one has an issue and others dont chime in and say ....."me too"., "me too"...me as well"

     

    Maybe they will do this yet... but mean time you are on your own.  (hmmmm) 

    Your rants arent helping anyone trouble shoot this with you.

     

    Now...it is possible that you have run into a spanned clips known issue due to the long recording time.  I am not sure where that is at the moment.  Do a search.

     

    How much OOS is the footage at the end of each camera anyway?

     

    Tell us what happens if you swap  the audio from one camera to the other in the timeline?  Try to establish consistency in the recording against the video.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 1, 2012 4:51 PM   in reply to martinv2012
    How about it Adobe Techs - can anyone deduce why nested audio goes out of sync without warning?

     

    Well...they never have for me.  Your situation is certainly not the norm.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 1, 2012 9:04 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    martinv2012 wrote:

     

    The audio and video was in sync, that is why the first 1/3 of the edit was fine. It was nesting that caused the sync issue.

     

    Listen shooternz, I expect video editing software to work correctly 100% of the time. I am not a software engineer and should not have to trouble shoot the app. If you bought a TV set would you expect it to work 100% of the time? You wouldn't try to open the set and fix it. I paid for video editing software and I expect it to work correctly 100% of the time.

     

    I edited with FCP for many years, and thought it was a great piece of software, but the idea that it was 100% bug free is utterly ridiculous!

     

    When you say that the audio doesn't show as being out of sync, are you looking at the nested sequence in your cut timeline, or WITHIN the nested sequence? Because if you move something within the nest you have to look inside it to see it, the nest itself won't show whether audio is in or out of sync.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 1, 2012 9:29 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    I am more and more convinced that unfamiliarity with PPRO (understandeable as a new user)  and general editing experience is playing a part in  your issue.

     

     

    This here below  makes no sense and remains unanswered no matter what I ask...or suggest!

     

    The audio and video was in sync, that is why the first 1/3 of the edit was fine. It was nesting that caused the sync issue.

    Example

     

    Tell us what happens if you swap  the audio from one camera to the other in the timeline?  Try to establish consistency in the recording against the video.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 2, 2012 9:10 AM   in reply to martinv2012

    what puzzles me Jim, is that Premiere did not give me a warning

     

    That's because what you're seeing is not normal program operation.  It's a glitch in your system, or with your media, or with your sequence, or with your project.

     

    When things go out of sync in a normal fashion, PP does give you the indicator

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2012 1:00 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    I edit multicam constantly in Premiere using AVCHD files and haven't ever experinced the issue you desribe. Very Interesting

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 4, 2012 1:40 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    After reading this entire post, I still don't see the answer from martinv2012 about the original sequence.

     

    Is the original sequence in sync all the way through? Meaning, if you go to the last 10 seconds of the original sequence, is the audio in sync or out.

     

    If you are here to ask for help on an issue, please give the information asked for.

     

    Also, (this is really starting to bug me) stop comparing PPro to FCP! Premier is not perfect, I can admit that since I've been using it for the last 6 years. However, I can also say that Final Cut Pro is not perfect either, since I used it for 4 years.

     

    If you think FCP was/is the superior product, why are you here? Go back to what you like. Otherwise, ask your questions to find the answers to what you don't understand, and realize that Premier Pro is NOT FCP and accept the differences.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 4, 2012 5:28 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    I've had issues with nested comps before.

     

    Im not sure if this is a bug in PPRO or not, but I have had this problem occur on and off.  After some troubleshooting, I found a workaround that worked for me in my specific situation.

    It seems when you NEST audio files not linked to video files (it may happen even if they are linked, but I have not tried it), PPRO will replace your clips with the nested composition but will offset the time.  Let me give you an example to illustrate.

     

    Say I have have audio clips that start at 10 seconds into my sequence and I nest them.  PPRO will nest them and show me the nested comp starting at 10 seconds, but it will really not play there, it starts to play exactly 10 seconds later.  Solution? Drag my nested composition back to 0 in the timeline.  Again this worked for me and it may be a work around.

     

    If Im doing something incorrectly, please someone point it out.

     

    Thanks.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Oct 31, 2012 12:30 PM   in reply to martinv2012

    Hey Martin,

     

    I totally agree with you that the software should just work, independent of someone's system!  I just started a small corporate documentary project and found your post while trying to figure out how to solve this mysterious sync problem.  I don't have any nested sequences; just multiple clips of talking heads, some of which have literally randomly out-of-sync audio/video.

     

    Finding no solution in the software for troubleshooting this problem, I have resorted to manually un-linking the audio and video of clips, manually sync-ing the video to the audio by eye, and then re-linking them.  This was the first time I saw the +/- indicator Mr Jim Simon spoke of, because it's now showing me how out-of-sync I have MANUALLY made them, which is not the problem!  I KNOW how out of sync they are, NOW...!

     

    Sorry to sound like I'm shouting, I'm just frustrated that I've had to spend so much time futzing with this when I could have been further along in the project by now.  Martin, I just wanted to say that it is not your system and your problem is not unique.

     

    -Paul

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2013 4:45 PM   in reply to ahernpaul

    Hello Everyone,

    Has anyone found a solution to this BUG?

     

    This happens to me all the time with Adobe Premier CS6.

    It is an obvious Software BUG that needs to be corrected. I am a TV show editor.

    I have had this happen to me 4 different times. You don't have to do anything special. The video with sound runs perfectly with any other product on your computer..but goes out of sync in Premier. I have tried cleaning up the Media Cache .cfa and .pek waveforms. No joy. I have tried relinking the media. No joy. I have tried moving the project and renaming and relinking. No joy. Rendering No joy. Setting the media cache to local area. No joy.

     

    If this had happened to me just once, I would say, I have done something wrong. It has happened now in 4 different projects on four different shows. I have produced and released over 100 shows to TV.

    I have checked everything, I have reloaded footage off camera. I have checked and bought new cables. I have checked codecs, frame rates, loaded into other products. All fine. I just wish Adobe engineers would do this same type of debugging of their software.

    I use to work for Hewlett Packard Software division.  We were taught to alfa test, beta test and not release until bug rates

    were at certain levels. Some bugs just have get through or you never get to release. But this bug really hits your productivity in a major way. You have to resync BY HAND each cut... all your sound after hours and days and weeks of getting it perfect. Then in a split second. FFFFDDDDDDDDD

     

    I have been editing with Premier for 6 years.... It only seems to be since I have upgraded to CS6.  And I have to re-link by hand to correct the problem.  I sync on electronic clapper board number and sound - almost impossibe not to sync. I will be working away happily, cut out some footage go to my next grab..BANG out of sync. That simple.

     

    All I know is that it happens and for ADOBE to really be a true professional editing suite in the the TV/Movie world.... This is just not on. By any chance have they released a patch or bug fix to repair this. I have spent over 3 weeks edting a television show again .......needing to go to air in less than three weeks and all of a sudden between one cut and delete.. the sound is out of sync across the whole interview. JUST NOT ON. I have spent 4 hours now..none productive hours trying to resync the sound, find solutions on the website via forums. Some ideas have been really good and I have tried them. None have worked. Still unsynced. Almost completed show I now have to re-sync by hand. At this point, I am thinking FCP is looking good. I cannot stand this loss of productivity and time. 

     

    This is not the only forum complaining about this..that should tell you something.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2013 9:36 AM   in reply to tmztv1960

    I don't know if Adobe even has this logged as a bug.  It's not a problem I'm seeing from a great many people.  It's also not a problem I'm able to reproduce with my own footage.

     

    If anyone cares to upload some problem footage and post the steps taken to cause the error, I can test here.

     

    https://www.depositfiles.com/uploader_flash.html

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 28, 2013 4:58 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    Happy to when I get this series finished..I am have three more shows to go. I have lots of information from web for potential work arounds, but

     

    So far no joy. So in September, I will pack up some samples and shoot them to you. It has happened to me about 4 different times now in four different projects.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2013 10:04 AM   in reply to tmztv1960

    I've had intermittent synch issues when editing MPEG4 video within nested sequences. They were not multicam related. My solution was to rebuild the sequence without nesting.  At times I deleted the file I had imported onto my RAID and replaced it with my back-up from my archive and this solved some issues.

     

    Are you running 6.0.3?  After I updated to this most of the bug issues like the one above were solved? I own my software but have heard that pirated versions of CS6 are not stable.

     

    Adobe can't ask you to solve software bug but you do need to have someone qualified to set-up and maintain a smooth running editing workflow. Premiere Pro CS6 needs a properly configured fast system .

     

    I am not saying you have a hardware issue but I have had some quirky issues when I did not have my system configured correctly. Especially with AVCHD, your configuration is very important. When setup correctly my system is amazing. This is a good document to read about optimizing your editing system.

     

    http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/creativesuite/produ ction/cs6/pdfs/adobe-hardware-performance-whitepaper.pdf 

     

    In in order of importance:

     

    8GB RAM minimum

     

    1 system drive with ONLY the Adobe applications. (No Media, No cache)

     

    1 Fast RAID for Video and Audio. Minimum 2 drives striped RAID 0 internal or external using a protocol USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt.

         TIP: I use a 2 drive external RAID USB 3.0 drive for A / V and store my program file on a SDHC card so I can swap them from my desktop to my laptop when I need to edit in a clients location. I have a much better graphics card on the desktop so After Effects is much faster but the quad i7 laptop works well for rough cuts, minor effects and simple graphics.

     

    Optional: Add another drive for cache files. I noticed an improvement in response by using an internal drive on my desktop and a USB 3.0 drive flash memory drive on my laptop.

     

    There was a noticeable improvement in the interface response time when I switched the dick drive on my desktop to a SSD. My laptop is OK with a spinning 7200 RPM disk.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2013 3:12 PM   in reply to nickdbomb

    Weird coincidence? When I opened Premiere Pro CS6.0.3 today a notice of an update to the Event Manager or something like that popped up and I updated, I opened a same project  that I was working on a week ago that I was having no issues with. Using the media browser, I double clicked on a XDCAM video file. The video was seen in the sorce monitor. The video played OK but the audio was out of synch and skipping ahead. Normally I make a I/O selection in the source monitor and drag it to the timeline. Doing this imports it into the project. I rebooted, No Luck. I deleted the problem files on my RAID and transferred the same files back to the RAID from the archive, No Luck. I was investigating my settings and found what I think was the problem at least it solved it for now. The settings found under Edit / Preferences / Media / Media Cache Files and Media cache Database were set to my C: system drive. I switched the settings to the folded I'm using on my RAID and Premiere asked if I wanted to transfer my cache files to the new location, I selected yes. This almost solved the problem. First the Adobe Premiere Pro CS6 program stopped working. The message popped up titled: Premiere Pro Debug Event with the message Premiere Pro has encountered an error  [..\..\Src\FileCache.cpp-1027] at the bottom of the popup window was a button labeled Continue clicking it another popup Save Project the My computer froze crashed and I had to manually push the power button until it turned off. Upon rebooting and loading PP I ran SpyBot just incase some malware had affected my system. There were 16 items found by Spybot that I deleted.  I checked my Preferences and they were correct. I opened the media browser and selected the same clip that was out of synch then a message I'd never seen before popped up saying the video was being imported. After a few seconds to import, the video and audio played in synch. Making an I/O selection and dragging to the timeline worked. I just wasted 4 hours trouble shooting this hope it helps someone.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 29, 2013 3:12 PM   in reply to Jim Simon

    regarding Premiere signalling with the +/-  It is my observation that this only appears when the user drags either the audio ir video out of alignment.  It doesn't work if the audio and video were out of sync when captured.  I have input video fram camtasia and occasionally the audo and video go out of sync on a longer clip.  There is no way for Premiere to know these are out of sync.  The only way I've found to resolve is to cut the clip and manually nudge one of the clips back and forth until it looks correct.

     

    You said the sequence properties and the video properties align.  Is this on both the sequence you laid out an cut the captured video, and the sequence you placed the nested sequence on?

     
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