I’m relatively new to Lr and am running 4.1. Yesterday I reviewed the Julieanne Kost’s Soft Proofing video (for the 2nd or 3rd time) in preparation for preparing a print. I guess I noticed for the first time that you can soft proof for sRGB, and I haven’t been doing that. I decided to do some sRGB soft proofing on some of the images I had already “developed” and posted on the web. To my amazement, most of those images were slightly out of the sRGB color space.
I have recently calibrated my monitor using Spyder 4. After calibration, Spyder gives me a percentage of the sRGB color space that my monitor displays, and it’s not quite 100%. The “developed” images look great to me on my monitor and on the digital picture frames that that they are loaded on. I guess I don’t understand why they seem to work on my monitor and digital displays while soft proofing shows they are out of the envelop.
Two questions.
I am a bit suspicious about Lightroom's soft-proofing. I have some sRGB images - created in sRGB and with an sRGB embedded profile - and LR still says they have substantial amounts of out-of-gamut colour when I soft-proof to sRGB.
The out-of-gamut warning it not saying what I expect it to say.
The out-of-gamut warning just means that the internally developed image has colors that exceed the color space specified for the softproof. You are using a monitor that has approximately the gamut of sRGB, so the image will look approximately like it is supposed to be when converted into the sRGB color space on export. However, if you would use a wide-gamut monitor, you would see that the image areas where the softproof indicates out-of-gamut for sRGB are looking more saturated than on the sRGB monitor.
This is perfectly normal. LR does not let you choose a working color space. Instead, it internally uses a very big theoretical color space (size of ProPhotoRGB) and will always use the maximum gamut available by your monitor for display.
OK, so let me explain my issue:
- I start with an sRGB image. One would imagine that an sRGB image doesn't have colours outside sRGB?
- So why does Lightroom report out of gamut colours when I proof against sRGB?
Perhaps you increased the saturation in the development module? The color space of an imported image does not matter. When developed, it is always converted into the huge internal color space.
Otherwise, if saturation was not changed, then there really should not be any out-of-gamut warning.
EDIT: I just tried it: Imported an sRGB JPEG into LR and made a softproof on sRGB. A few small areas in the image are reported in the out-of-gamut warning, which is not logical. I suspect that the warning appears on colors that are just on the edge of the color space, so a sRGB image with extremely satuated colors could just trigger the warnings.
I think the question is why a conversion to sRGB from LR’s internal colorspace (during the softproof) is not simply the reverse of the conversion from sRGB to LR’s internal colorspace during the import.
If there have been no adjustments in LR, then the colors should not have changed. Does the monitor profile come into play at all during the from or to sRGB conversion?
I would guess that there is a slight difference in black-point compensation or perceptual vs absolute vs relative that has changed the color-numbers slightly so the from sRGB is not quite the same as the to sRGB conversion.
Here's an image with an embedded sRGB profile: http://www.simongarrett.co.uk/Primaries_sRGB.tif
It contains colour blobs of 100% saturated colour - in sRGB. Imported into LR, and with no editing whatever or develop presets applied, it shows out-of-gamut colours when soft proofing against sRGB is applied.
I did a test using a raw image developed in Lr that tested “out of gamut” for sRGB using Soft Proofing. I used the Web module to export the image. That module does not give a color space option (at least not one I could find). The image produced for the Web remained out of sRGB gamut when I checked it using it using Soft Proofing. I took the same image and exported it to my desktop as a sRGB jpeg file. I reimported it back into Lr and it was within sRGB gamut according to Soft Proofing. Lr fixed it, but I guess that should be expected.
What I learned from this exercise is that I am only going to worry about Soft Proofing when I am making prints or posting on the Web (using the Web module) but not when exporting a jpeg file.
Hey guys, the image I linked above started as a tif in sRGB, not a raw. It never had any colours out of sRGB gamut, as it was only every sRGB. Dead simple, no doubt that colours are inside sRGB gamut, as it's an sRGB image. End of story.
But then when Lightroom opens it in Devleop Module, and converts to its working space of ProPhoto, it seems to change colours. How else could it show colours which are out of sRGB gamut when I soft proof against sRGB?
CSS Simon wrote:
OK, so let me explain my issue:
- I start with an sRGB image. One would imagine that an sRGB image doesn't have colours outside sRGB?
- So why does Lightroom report out of gamut colours when I proof against sRGB?
It’s a bug IMHO. You’ll see the same bug in Photoshop! I’ve written to some of the color gods within Adobe but haven’t heard back. Bottom line, the OOG overlay isn’t useful in the first place but it should be accurate. That is, if you soft proof an sRGB image with sRGB, you should see zero OOG colors. That isn’t happening. Best ignore OOG anyway. It has always treated 1% and 100% OOG the same with an ugly overlay that blocks your image. And what are you supposed to do anyway? Manually desatruate to remove? Nope, not a good idea. The output profile will do this faster and with more precision, especially if you prefer the visual appearance from a Perceptual rendering which alters in and out of gamut colors.
Where OOG could be useful is when editing your master when not being careful with sliders like Vibrance or Saturation. The data is in a very wide gamut space using ProPhoto primaries. Even with a wide gamut display, there are colors you can alter you can’t see. Having OOG pop up as an option in such a case could be useful: warning Will Robinson, don’t move that slider so far! Short of that, the OOG overlay, which predates ICC color management in Photoshop where soft proofing was an option isn’t useful.
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