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Line size changes when using Rotate??

Jul 8, 2012 1:17 PM

Tags: #help #transform #object #cs6 #rotate #line_tool #illustrate #height_changes

Hello:                                                                            Level: Newbie OS: Windows 7 64bit

 

So, I have been using the Line tool and then Grouping two Lines and then using the Object > Transform > Rotate

 

The lines I draw are 0px wide and 22px high but when I Rotate them around the circle the Line sizes change ... ??

 

Say the two lines are Grouped and the first set is 276px the next set becomes say 276.346 and then 275.582 and 198.682 and so on ...

 

I have gone into the Tranform pallette to see if there is something I should be checking but it doesn't seem as though I am missing anything to the best of my (limited) knowledge.

 

I have also tried the manual and looked for something like: "why line size would change on rotate" and I've looked under Transform and Rotate but I haven't had any luck.

 

As always ... Thank you so much for your time

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 8, 2012 1:53 PM   in reply to Kar209

    Kara,

     

    The lines I draw are 0px wide and 22px high

     

    Paths made with the Line Tool have a Stroke Weight and a length. Do you mean that this is a vertical nostroke path 22pt/px long?

     

    Say the two lines are Grouped and the first set is 276px

     

    Are the paths 276 px apart?

     

    To avoid more silly questions, you may post an image. You can upload it to a website and post a link or post it using the Insert Image button which looks like a camera. A screenshot may be even better.

     

    In either case, preferably a set showing the original pair and the following htree rotated pairs. You may move copies (Object>Transform>Move pressing Copy, then using Ctrl+D to repeat the copymoving every time you have rotated).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 8, 2012 4:12 PM   in reply to Kar209

    What you are reading is the width and height of the area the path encompasses.

     

    Think about the hand of a clock. When it's at 12 it's thin and vertical. When it's at 1 it takes up far more space horizontally than it did at 12.

     

    You are reading the area covered by the path, not the actual path dimensions.

     

    Basically, the numbers you are reading reflect the pink boxes in this screen shot:

     

    Snap_001.jpg

    The area needed to draw the shape, not the dimensions of the shape itself.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 9, 2012 1:37 AM   in reply to Kar209

    Kara,

     

    But there is something rather strange about the figures.

     

    The 276.346px should not apply to a set that is 276px high and (slightly) rotated, unless you have Edit>Use Preview Bounds on, and if you have, the original width should be equal to the Stroke Weight and not 0.

     

    That strangeness fooled me and made me ask those questions and suggest an image/screenshot, to see whether the figues might fit something less straightforward.

     

    What Scott shows in post #2 are not simple straight paths made with the Line Tool, but either rounded/closed/filled paths, or straight paths with varying widths applying Edit>Use Preview Bounds.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 9, 2012 2:42 PM   in reply to Kar209

    Kara,

     

    I can see that you are testing our vigilance.

     

    so, i ungroup the lines the first line stays at ... X: 252.5px Y: 126px  W: 0px H: 22px

     

    BUT the copy to the left reads ... X 210.603  Y: 133.388  W: 7.525px  H: 20.674px

     

    Those figures match each other perfectly, but not with the group as mentioned in the OP, see the red emphasis:

     

    The lines I draw are 0px wide and 22px high but when I Rotate them around the circle the Line sizes change ... ??

     

    Say the two lines are Grouped and the first set is 276px the next set becomes say 276.346 and then 275.582 and 198.682 and so on ...

     

    The Bounding Box (BB) of a vertical 22px line is 0px by 22px and when you rotate it by 20 degrees, the BB becomes 7.525px by 20.674px; the sum of the squares is 22px and the quotient is is the tangens of 20 degrees. So far so good.

     

    And if you rotate a pair of them, the centre of the top one moves from X = 252.5px Y = 126px to X = 210.603px Y = 133.388 as you state, but only if the total height of the unrotated pair (and its BB) is 267px.

     

    So to throw us off the scent you have swapped the digits 6 and 7, to go from 267 to 276. Very cunning.

     

    The figures in blue still appear rather impossible. Maybe that is owing to some inaccuracy, or it is just another trap.

     

    Edit: By the way, the figures gave you away: you have CS5 or CS6.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 10, 2012 4:05 AM   in reply to Kar209

    Kara,

     

    I'm using CS6 ....

     

    The X and Y values said at least CS5.

     

    .... have I also mentioned this is my first Illustrator attempt?

     

    No. Welcome aboard.

     

    You did not drop the compass on the floor by any chance?

     

    The circles and increments seem to be all right, but the central part is is above centre and slightly to the left, a few angles are wrong, and some of the quarters are a bit off:

     

    The centre of the compass needle is above centre and slightly to the left, and the compass rose is even a bit further up.

     

    The SE/NW and SW/NE directions are closer to S/N than to E/W (too little rotation from S/N or too much from E/W).

     

    NE, N, NW, and W, look about right, but E, SE, S, and SW, seem to be too high and to the left.

     

    You can see the different distances between the circle(s) and the central parts, and how the needle and especially the directions point wrongly at the angle markings.

     

    Edit: Presumably, Guides are Smart Guides, and those are (often) your friends, but they can only help you some of the way.

     

    I believe you are right in that alignment is key to the issue(s).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 10, 2012 12:58 PM   in reply to Kar209

    You are welcome, Kara.

     

    No getting back. What I meant with The X and Y values said at least CS5 was just that I could see from the X and Y values that it was either CS5 or CS6.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 11, 2012 2:08 AM   in reply to Kar209

    Kara,

     

    I shall look forward to it.

     

    ps. was just teasing bout the getting back thing

     

    I believe you.

     

    I am less convinced about the cunning thing. But challenges are appreciated here.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 11, 2012 11:18 AM   in reply to Kar209

    ...as well as sitting down to read the manual front and back before an other tut attempt...

    Now you're getting it.

     

    Kara,

    Someone needs to say it: Illustrator "tutorials" are all over the web. The majority of them are written by intermediate (at best) users who just want to be considered "experts." Most often, they are poorly written, failing to even consistently use the terminology of the program's user interface. Proportionally few demonstrate best-practice methodology. The end result is a confused state of the blind leading the blind.

     

    You would be far better off reading and actually working through the official documentation than trying to learn a program like this through ad hoc, random-subject "tutorials". At least the documentation has some measure of methodical organizational scheme and heirarchal progression to it that doesn't try to put the learning horse before the cart. It's just like anything else; you can't shortcut walking in eagerness to run.

     

    JET

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 25, 2012 2:50 PM   in reply to Kar209

    All is well here, and thank you for your kind words.

     

    It is close to midnight over here, as usual; presumably broad daylight over there.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 27, 2012 2:15 PM   in reply to Kar209

    Kara,

     

    Presently, I am a bit (too far) east of Aidenfield.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 2, 2012 3:45 PM   in reply to Kar209

    Kara,

     

    We really should try to get the (lack of) accuracy issue sorted.

     

    I will have another look at the thread(s) and ponder over it.

     

    Alas, over the next water(s).

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 3, 2012 6:06 AM   in reply to Kar209

    Kara,

     

    Without having reread everything concerning the lack of accuracy across threads, just a few questions to follow up some (im)possible leads (no more said about Align to Pixel Grid and Y axis direction):

     

    1) Do you have Edit>Preferences>General>Use Preview Bounds ticked? If so, you may try with it unticked.

     

    2) Do you have any other applications running, especially the usual suspects listed in Item 7 in Other options? If so (this may seem to be a rather silly question), you may try to close everything else down (some are troublesome enough to cause trouble even when closed and have to be uninstalled, but that is an even longer shot) and see whether it helps.

     

    3) Have you tried to Move the folder? This is a reversible way of getting rid of many of the potentially troublesome preferencess; you can always move them back instead of losing them needlessly.

     

    4) We do not want to go there.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 4, 2012 1:55 AM   in reply to Kar209

    Kara,

     

    5) The loss of carefully built niceties by simple deletion of preferences is the reason for my (always) suggesting your moving the lot, because you can move it back.

     

    6) The Uninstall, Cleaner Tool, Reinstall. But since you have lost all the niceties already, it may be worth going there.

     

    http://www.adobe.com/support/contact/cscleanertool.html

     

    The Cleaner Tool is crucial because it (at least supposedly) takes care of all the hidden underworld thingies.

     

    All is well.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 6, 2012 3:48 AM   in reply to Kar209

    You are welcome, Kara, and good luck.

     

    You should know that your findings may be important for anyone with similar issues most of all, and for everyone here, helping to build the common knowledgebase.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 6, 2012 2:29 PM   in reply to Kar209

    It is really a pleasure, Kara.

     
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