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How to mimic non colour managed environment in CS6

Jul 12, 2012 5:34 AM

Can anyone tell me please if it is possible to see in Photoshop what an image will look like when it is out in the un-colour managed world?.I can see how you can do it if you are saving for web because you can preview it in a browser, but is it possible to do this with TIFs and PSDss please?

 

I have a wide colour gamut display and even with it set to sRGB colour mode emulation, sRGB tagged images that look correctly saturated in Photoshop look oversaturated once out of it and in an uncolour managed environment - particularly the reds. If I can replicate this environment in PS I can edit the colours to make them more neutral looking.

 

Thanks.

 
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 12, 2012 5:57 AM   in reply to nickna12

    Without a lab full of monitors that represent the mix of hardware your viewing audience out in the world might have, it's really not possible.

     

    You can easily see what it will look like on YOUR monitor without color-management.  Just choose View - Proof Setup - Monitor RGB.  Uncheck View - Proof Colors when you want to return back to managed color.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 12, 2012 6:00 AM   in reply to nickna12

    Thinking a bit on your goals...

     

    Honestly, I'd just publish the images tagged with the sRGB profile and let the people with uncalibrated / oversaturated color just deal with them.  If you desaturate your own images to anticipate that situation (someone viewing non-managed color on a wide-gamut display) then you'll just be a) making your images look less "vibrant" than other peoples' images to those folks, and b) making them look desaturated on monitors that ARE well set up.

     

    Taken to a logical conclusion, you'd only want to publish in grayscale.  I don't think that's attractive.

     

    I think web publishers have to assume that, however much Microsoft drags their feet, sooner or later web browsers that do full color management will become ubiquitous.  Firefox is already there, Safari is almost all the way there, IE stopped (ridiculously) halfway there, and Chrome is, well, Google software (they may get a clue one day).

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2012 6:06 AM   in reply to nickna12

    Can anyone tell me please if it is possible to see in Photoshop what an image will look like when it is out in the un-colour managed world?

    Your query seems peculiar – as Noel pointed out you can circumvent Color Management and view the image on your screen unmanaged-ly (Edit: in Photoshop), but why do you assume that would have relevance for the millions of other screens that are out there?

    How familiar are you with the concepts of Color Management?

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 12, 2012 6:19 AM   in reply to nickna12

    One other point:  How are you anticipating publishing these images so that those "out in the world" will see them?

     

    If you really are talking about your images being seen with a web browser, then there really is no one right answer.  The percentages of web browser use are spread across all the browsers I mentioned above reasonably evenly...  So you just can't know how well color-managed your image will be.  No one can say whether IE "gets it close to right" more often than Firefox or Safari.  How many people have wide-gamut monitors vs. those with older "standard" gamut displays that more closely match sRGB? 

     

    Plus I'd wager a majority of people don't have their systems set up with a monitor color profile that actually matches their monitor.

     

    You start to see why folks who understand color-management shake their heads sometimes. 

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 12, 2012 7:12 AM   in reply to nickna12

    I'm going to make a good guess at the context of your question...

     

    You're looking at the images in Internet Explorer, right?

     

    Internet Explorer only does HALF the job of color-management.  What it does is transform the colors from any given image in any color space to sRGB - meaning it assumes your monitor has the gamut of sRGB no matter what the reality. 

     

    In short, it IGNORES your monitor color space and assumes it's an sRGB monitor.

     

    This is likely the root of the problem you're seeing.  The problem is with Internet Explorer not doing proper color-management!

     

    I know that there are people who care about color have switched to Firefox or Safari because of this.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2012 8:59 AM   in reply to nickna12

    >> Can anyone tell me please if it is possible to see in Photoshop what an image will look like when it is out in the un-colour managed world?

     

    i didn't read this entire thread but that is a very easy answer in theory

     

    Photoshop: View> Proof Setup: Monitor RGB

     

    that "Soft Proofing" maneuver will pass your Photoshop RGB straight through to the monitor unaltered (the same as unmanaged apps do)

     

    +++++++

     

    though in context to your last post — "I am concerned because the magazine that publishes my images uses Apple Macs which have sRGB equivalent displays (I understand) and I would like to feel confident that what reaches them and is published" — i don't think the question was asked succinctly because you probably don't want to attempt to circumvent color management when handing off your file for print production

     

    +++++++

     

    the best chance you have is to hardware profile your monitor (so you get an 'accurate' monitor proof), and use and embed ICC profiles

     

    hopefully your people downstream will use your embedded profile in their print production and convert to their printer profile...

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 12, 2012 10:07 AM   in reply to nickna12

    I don't know the FastStone viewer at all, but there's a reasonable possibility it's not color-managed.  I'd say more applications are not color-managed than are.

     

    Gator soup makes the very valid point that the ONLY way to maximize the chance that what you're sending to other people will be properly interpreted is to:

     

    1. Calibrate and profile your display.
    2. Trust what you're seeing in Photoshop as the correct color.
    3. Tag your images with your working profile when you save them.
    4. Trust that your recipients know enough about color-management to get it right, or in a pinch, find out what profile they specifically need, and go back and convert your images to that profile and repeat step 3.

     

    Color-management is not something you can ignore/avoid/wing it with.  If you want to make the right choices for your settings you need to understand color-management, be sure you've gotten your color right on your setup, and provide others with properly tagged images.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 12, 2012 11:18 AM   in reply to nickna12

    Glad to hear things are making more sense to you now.

     

    I don't have a lot of experience with different calibrator/profilers, but I have heard that the results can differ between different models.  Everything is not all as perfect as you might be led to believe by advertisements.

     

    Given that the result of a calibration/profiling operation is twofold - creating a calibration (gamma, etc. curves) for the video card, and a profile for fine tuning by the applications, I suppose it's not difficult to think that the two parts could be somewhat different from different devices, though saturation isn't really something that can be changed by gamma curves, so that's still a bit of a mystery to me.

     

    For what it's worth, in my own case I have "standard gamut" monitors and I have calibrated them to emulate sRGB very well, so I use the bog standard sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile for my monitors.  The upside is that IE is perfectly color-managed for me, and other applications that display sRGB images without color management are also right.  And of course Photoshop is right.  I have specific reasons for having done this, to support my development work, and it has worked out very well for general use.  But I don't have a strong need to produce wide-gamut imagery (I don't do much printing, for example, and for what I DO do, my printer wants sRGB).

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 12, 2012 12:02 PM   in reply to nickna12

    Do you need the entire screen to be in the display?  I ask, because when I have recorded Camtasia videos I have just used the upper-left corner of one of my displays.  This has the added advantage that I don't have to hide everything on my desktop, it's just out of view below or to the side.

     

    But to answer your question, you might want to try a reboot with the second monitor attached.  That might clear up the disparity in the settings.  I don't really know what could be causing your software to be out of sync with the hardware; I haven't encountered that.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 12, 2012 5:11 PM   in reply to nickna12

    For what I did the menus all happened to fit.  I used a VMware virtual machine and it was configured quite simply, which suited what I was showing.

     

    -Noel

     
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