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Paste command does not always work with white balance.

Jul 12, 2012 10:37 PM

I finally figured out why LR sometimes ignores the paste command and if not a bug, it is at least a problem that can adversely affect the unsuspecting user.  Pasting a WB does not always work if both the source/target are both "As Shot", and yet the Temp/Tint are still different.  It seems priority should be given to the actual numbers instead of the As shot status, which (in my case) could vary between cameras.  The logic is a bit strange.

 

I can see how whether or not this is a bug is debatable, but it seems more useful to have it work the other way.  There should at least be a message when the paste command results in no expected action (I expect the actual WB numbers to take priority over "as shot").

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2012 11:00 PM   in reply to George in Seattle

    Then how would you copy As Shot between images if that's really what you

    wanted?

     

    To copy actual numbers, you need to set WB to Custom before copying.

     

    Sent from phone.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 2:17 AM   in reply to George in Seattle

    I agree whole-heartedly George. Users should be able to specify whether they want to sync (or copy/paste) as-shot mode or temp/tint values...

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 3:35 AM   in reply to George in Seattle

    George,

     

    This issue has been discussed on previous occasions. However, it really hasn't really been seen as a priority in the past, and isn't going to happen mid cycle. The workaround I tend to use is - select 'Custom' from the WB drop-down menu for your source image then select the remaining images and sync. Selecting 'Custom' leaves the original WB/Tint values but tricks Lr into using them rather than 'As Shot' during the sync.

     

    An alternative to above, which should be done before you apply any other edits, is to activate 'Auto Sync' select all of the images you want to have the same WB/Tint values then choose 'Custom' from WB drop-down menu. The key here is that all selected images will now be set to the same WB/Tint values as the most selected image. So, be sure you've picked the correct one. Also, remember to deactivate 'Auto Sync' when done.

     

    Both methods described above are equally valid, but when doing demos and workshops' I tend to recommend the first as it fits in better with the traditional syncing workflow. The second method works well for folk who shoot lots of images that require identical base adjustments to all images in a shoot (e.g. studio or weddings).

     
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  • Christophe CUSSAT BLANC
    24 posts
    Aug 29, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 8:41 AM   in reply to George in Seattle

    It's not easy to make a decision about that. Some people would like to copy "As Shot" as "As shot"... I mean, that they want to set the WB setting as in the camera at the moment of the image is made, whether or not the WB is the same temperature on the two shots. Other would like to copy the temperature. I think it's more a proplem of ergonomy than a bug.

     

    I'd prefer that when you copy the "As shot" setting that the destination's wb is set to "As shot" and not to the source temperature. It seems more logical to me.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 10:26 AM   in reply to Christophe CUSSAT BLANC

    I agree, it’s confusing until you understand, but correct behavior, otherwise there’d be no way to set As Shot en masse.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 12:41 PM   in reply to ssprengel

    User just needs to be able to specify whether they want to sync the white balance mode or the temperature / tint values.

     

    (See Cookmarks for an example of this)

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 2:09 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    All you have to do to convert a particular photo’s As Shot to a consistent pair of the same Temp/Tint values is jiggle the Temp or Tint slider up a little and then back down to where it was, and the type of WB will change from As Shot to Custom.  With Custom the values remain constant until you change them.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 2:26 PM   in reply to ssprengel

    The problem is that you need to review each target, to see whether this little prep step needs to be done, or just do it to make sure.

     

    I think specifying which you want, in no uncertain terms, and skipping the prep step would be preferable.

     

    More than one way to solve the problem, to be sure.

     

    Here's my solution:

    * Convert all photos to custom white balance immediately upon import or PV conversion.

    * If I do want to sync mode instead of values (which is approximately never), use Cookmarks.

     

    Different strokes for different folks...

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 2:35 PM   in reply to ssprengel

    ssprengel wrote:

     

    All you have to do to convert a particular photo’s As Shot to a consistent pair of the same Temp/Tint values is jiggle the Temp or Tint slider up a little and then back down to where it was, and the type of WB will change from As Shot to Custom.  With Custom the values remain constant until you change them.

    You don't need to jiggle anythging. As I wrote above, select the source image then change WB to Custom, the original 'As Shot' values are retained but is now Custom and can be synced correctly across multiple images. I've only been doing this for 6 years, so you would think I'd have got a clue by now!

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 2:40 PM   in reply to Ian Lyons

    Setting to custom only yields the as-shot equivalent, if no custom adjustments have yet been done. If user has set custom adjustments, then gone back to as-shot, the jiggling method is required for the as-shot equivalent in custom mode.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 2:52 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob Cole wrote:

     

     

    Here's my solution:

    * Convert all photos to custom white balance immediately upon import or PV conversion.

    * If I do want to sync mode instead of values (which is approximately never), use Cookmarks.

     

     

     

    Rob,

     

    For the benefit of those who don't know, it would be helpful if you explained exactly how you convert ALL photos to custom on import. Likewise, for those (includes myself) who don't know what a 'Cookmark' is I think an explanation is in order.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 2:52 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob Cole wrote:

     

    Setting to custom only yields the as-shot equivalent, if no custom adjustments have yet been done. If user has set custom adjustments, then gone back to as-shot, the jiggling method is required for the as-shot equivalent in custom mode.

     

    As soon as the WB is set back to 'As Shot' the jiggled values are cleared. So, the method I described is still the quickest, easiest and least likley to error approach.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 3:05 PM   in reply to Ian Lyons

    One way to convert photos to custom wb upon import:

     

    Create a preset to be applied, which includes white balance, then load into a text editor and change:

     

    WhiteBalance = "{whatever}",

     

    to

     

    WhiteBalance = "Custom",

     

    Note: if WhiteBalance is already "Custom", then just delete the lines:

     

    Temperature = {whatever},

    Tint = {whatever},

     

     

    PS - see link above for more info about cookmarks.

     

     

    R

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 3:12 PM   in reply to Ian Lyons

    Ian Lyons wrote:

     

    As soon as the WB is set back to 'As Shot' the jiggled values are cleared.

     

    In my experience, once custom white balance values have been set to something other than the as-shot values, they are never cleared, except by a reset, or other such measure.

     

     

     

    Ian Lyons wrote:

     

    So, the method I described is still the quickest, easiest and least likley to error approach.

     

    That method is not reliable for me, due to the above-mentioned.

     

     

    R

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 3:23 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob Cole wrote:

     

    One way to convert photos to custom wb upon import:

     

    Create a preset to be applied, which includes white balance, then load into a text editor and change:

     

    WhiteBalance = "{whatever}",

     

    to

     

    WhiteBalance = "Custom",

     

     

     

    Fine, that clears that up. However, using the preset means every photo will be set to 'Custom', since applying a Develop preset during import is global. Somehow, I don't think that's a solution that many users will find useful, especially those who use Smart Collections and such like to filter on photos that have / have not already been edited (i.e. the wheels are off the wagon before they even get to starting line).

     

    BTW - I don't see the link you refer to.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 3:29 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob Cole wrote:

     

    Ian Lyons wrote:

     

    As soon as the WB is set back to 'As Shot' the jiggled values are cleared.

     

    In my experience, once custom white balance values have been set to something other than the as-shot values, they are never cleared, except by a reset, or other such measure.

     

     

     

     

    By design Lr should set the WB to the original WB values as soon as 'As Shot' is selected (effectively a reset). In 6 years of using the Lr that is exactly what I've seen happening on each and every occasion (Mac and Windows platform) I've used it. If you see something different then please post a bug report.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 3:33 PM   in reply to Ian Lyons

    Ian Lyons wrote:

     

    Somehow, I don't think that's a solution that many users will find useful, especially those who use Smart Collections and such like to filter on photos that have / have not already been edited (i.e. the wheels are off the wagon before they even get to starting line).

     

    It's not for everyone...

     

    PS - Cookmarks (it's not for everyone either...)

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 3:35 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    Rob Cole wrote:

     

    PS - Cookmarks (it's not for everyone either...)

     

     

     

     

    Thanks, I'll keep it in mind for future reference.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 5:01 PM   in reply to Ian Lyons

    Ian Lyons wrote:

     

    By design Lr should set the WB to the original WB values as soon as 'As Shot' is selected (effectively a reset). In 6 years of using the Lr that is exactly what I've seen happening on each and every occasion (Mac and Windows platform) I've used it. If you see something different then please post a bug report.

     

    Perhaps we have not been communicating accurately. Despite my objection to wb syncing behavior, switching between as-shot and custom is being handled perfectly, IMO:

     

    * Edit temp & tint and mode becomes custom.

    * switch to any other mode, and the custom values are no longer the active (visible) values, but under the hood, they have not been cleared.

    * switch back to custom and the edited values reappear.

     

    Perfect.

     

    (it would be much worse for me if the custom values were discarded when switching modes - Adobe: please do NOT "fix" this).

     

    Rob

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 7:25 PM   in reply to Rob Cole

    I agree LR is working correctly, now, so no fix or adjustment is needed and the Custom preset is a good idea, too, although at my age I usually just jiggle.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2012 12:28 AM   in reply to ssprengel

    ssprengel wrote:

     

    I agree LR is working correctly, now, so no fix or adjustment...

     

    I think you misunderstood me. I really think the wb sync should be fixed.

     

    Current behavior is unclear and problem prone.

     

    Better behavior: user can choose whether to sync wb mode or temp/tint values.

     

    I mean, it's a small thing to me because I:

    * Know how it is.

    * Know how to get around it.

    * Usually remember.

     

    But for the unsuspecting / inexperienced or forgetful - it's a problem waiting to happen...

     

    (to be clear, when I said "please don't "fix" this", in the previous post, I was talking about remembering custom entered temp/tint when switching wb mode - which is a good good thing)

     

    Rob

     
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