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PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images

Jul 6, 2012 9:23 PM

I'm on Win7x64 with 8GB of RAM and all PsCS6 updates.

Have Bridge and Ps open.

Open image (jpg or psd or .CR2 with shift double-click) from Bridge into Ps then close image in Ps (with or without making any edits).

Try to rename the Bridge folder in which the closed image resides.

Bridge wont let me, says image is being used by another application. Have to close Ps before Bridge will allow me to rename the folder.

Hmmm...Problem seems to be intermittent. For example, since typing, but before posting this thread, problem is not happening.

 

Anyone else experiencing this behaviour?

 
Replies
  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 6, 2012 10:53 PM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    Photoshop does close and release any file it opens or saves -- we work hard to make sure that Photoshop does not keep them open and does not block other applications.

     

    Now, we have seen some font management plugins mess with files after they are saved.

    And OSes hold on to files while creating thumbnails or parsing metadata.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 7, 2012 10:39 AM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    Yes, Windows parses metadata from files, creates some thumbnails, etc.  Other thumbnailing applications can also lock a file (due to bugs in the APIs for thumbnail extensions).

     

    Try something like http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/opened_files_view.html  to see which applicaiton has the files open.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 7, 2012 10:53 AM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    Andrew, there's a Windows setting that can help.  I've documented it in my Windows 7 and 8 books; here's an excerpt:

     

     

    Turn Off Caching of Thumbnails in Thumbs.db Files

    People sometimes report that they cannot manipulate their folders as they want to because Explorer has a Thumbs.db file open.  Windows generates these files for compatibility with older software that may expect such files to exist in folders with, for example, photos in them.  It does NOT need Thumbs.db files itself.

    Unless you're running such old software (which is uncommon at this point), you can just turn this off without consequences, and with a benefit:  You'll no longer be blocked from manipulating folders because of Thumbs.db file conflicts.

    The good news is that (with Windows 7 and above) you can disable this through the Group Policy Editor:

             Click Start, type gpedit into the search box, and hit Enter.

             When the Local Group Policy Editor comes up, navigate into:

    > User Configuration

    > Administrative Templates

    > Windows Components

    > Windows Explorer

             Right-click the entry Turn off the caching of thumbnails in hidden thumbs.db files and choose Edit.
         
    Make sure you get the right setting as there is another one with a similar name.

             Set the policy to Enabled.

             Log off Windows and back on.

    Note: If you have a version of Windows that does not provide the Group Policy Editor, the change can be done through a registry modification:

    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER \ Software \ Policies \ Microsoft \ Windows \ Explorer]

    DisableThumbsDBOnNetworkFolders  REG_DWORD 0x00000001 (1)

     

    Not sure whether this might help you, but it's worth a try.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 8, 2012 5:55 AM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    You'll need to make that change before you reproduce the problem; it won't help after the fact, though if Sofer's tool tells you it's Explorer that has its hooks that's a pretty good indication that the above tweak will work.  I haven't run across an app that needs Thumbs.db in years, so there's no downside to the tweak, which I have done to all my systems.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 8, 2012 8:33 AM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    Do you have Windows Indexing turned ON for the HDD/folders, where the Image files are stored? If so, try turning that OFF.

     

    Do you have any active-scanning, real-time anti-virus, anti-malware, anti-anything running? If so, try turning that OFF.

     

    As Chris points out, there are several other apps., and processes, that can lock a file, while it/hey process the file. Depending on the size of the file, and on the speed of one's computer, the time required can be rather long.

     

    Good luck,

     

    Hunt

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 8, 2012 8:47 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    And don't forget that Bridge itself can be reindexing folders.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 8, 2012 9:21 AM   in reply to Bill Hunt

    Good point.  Indexing definitely needs to be ditched.  I have done a big writeup on the evils of indexing.  The worst of it is that for all of the trouble Indexing causes, it doesn't really make your system faster...  As long as you have a half decent disk drive just doing searches directly of the files themselves (which is what you get when you disable indexing) works just fine.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 8, 2012 10:45 PM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    Well, we need some tool to identify which process actually has the files held open.

    If you can find a better tool, please let us know.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 12, 2012 5:49 AM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    Hm, I think maybe I have been crossing up Photoshop holding a file open vs. operations on your folder being blocked. 

     

    I apologize for not thinking of this sooner...

     

    It just dawned on me...  As I recall, if an application has its default folder set to a particular folder, in general Windows will block operations on that folder until the application exits or changes its default folder to something else. 

     

    Could we be looking for some complex reasons when it might be something as simple as Photoshop just having its default pointed to the folder you're trying to rename?

     

    An easy way to reproduce this situation is to open a CMD window, then CD to the folder in question, then try to do something to that folder, such as rename it.

     

    CannotUse.jpg

     

    I've just reproduced this same issue quite easily with Photoshop by simply opening a PSD from a given folder, then closing it, then trying to rename the folder.

     

    To test this theory, try opening (and possibly saving) a PSD file somewhere else, completely separate from where you're working.

     

    So assuming this is the issue, the question becomes this:  COULD Photoshop be changed to set its default folder to somewhere else when you're not actually opening or saving a file (or after you've closed one)?  Noting that Photoshop maintains two separate default folders if you set the preferences a particular way, it seems possible.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 12, 2012 7:07 AM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    If you're working on another drive you can add a command line switch to tell it to change drives as well:  CD /D path

     

    Yes, I reproduced it easily, generating the error message above.  Just to be clear, in Photoshop I chose File - Open, opened the PSD, then closed the document.  After that I could not rename, in Bridge, the folder in which the PSD file exists. 

     

    The difference is that opening the PSD this way seems to set the default folder (as expected).  When starting Photoshop from Bridge, Photoshop's own default folder is probably not changed.  That could be the source of some confusion.

     

    This was the setting I was thinking might affect the way Photoshop manages its current default folder...

     

    SaveSetting.png

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2012 7:14 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni
     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2012 7:53 AM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    Bridge might have the folder open, but Photoshop doesn't keep folders locked or open.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 12, 2012 9:59 AM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    Going back to an earlier post by Noel, typing gpedit in Search doesn't work. You have to type gpedit.msc to run  it.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 12, 2012 10:54 AM   in reply to Chris Cox

    Chris Cox wrote:

     

    Bridge might have the folder open, but Photoshop doesn't keep folders locked or open.

     

    Chris!  Did you not read what I wrote above?  It has nothing to do with keeping anything locked or open. 

     

    I sense you may be more familiar with the Mac than PC environment...  In Windows, every process has a default "Current Directory" that is maintained at run-time.  It's where file dialogs open up automatically in the general case.  The initial default is what you specify in desktop shortcuts in the "Start in" field.

     

    Windows will not allow you to rename a folder that's currently some application's current directory.  That's the root cause here.

     

    See:  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365530(v=vs.85).aspx

     

    One possibility that comes to mind to fix this issue is that you *could* change Photoshop's programming to SetCurrentDirectory to the root or scratch folder when no document is open.  That would avert this kind of issue.  You'd have to make sure you have all the right SetCurrentDirectory calls in the various file dialogs (probably already there).

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 12, 2012 8:30 PM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    As a workaround, when you get it to happen try this:

     

    In Photoshop, go to the File - Open menu, and open a file somewhere else on your hard drive.

     

    See if the problem goes away right after opening the file.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 7:48 AM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    I finally got around to trying it myself, and didn't have a problem renaming folders after closing the file in PS.

     

    Now I have seen that warning and AFAIR, it wasn't only Photoshop, (or maybe not even PS!). I simply closed the app and went on. I'll look more carefully next time around. It is rather rare. Also, I did have the Caching Thubs to which Noel referred turned on, so I turned it off before running this test.

     

    In this case, I renamed the folder in Bridge or Explorer.

     

    BTW, I looked at that app from Chris and wasn't too happy with the workarounds to be able to use it in a 64 bit system, particularly running in test mode. Also, I noted one commenter's problem with Bitlocker after using it with the workarounds. I much prefer Sysinternals, if I only can remember all the details! But it never messed up anything unless I did something stupid.

     

    I used Sysinternals years ago when recalcitrant handles refused to let go. Not so much any more.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 13, 2012 8:29 PM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    I was following your steps with the addition of stopping the Thumbs in Exploroe as Noel indicated.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 13, 2012 10:36 PM   in reply to Andrew_Hart

    All I can think of is that we all may be reproducing things with slightly different steps.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2012 5:24 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    My results seem consistent with Chris' expectations.

     

    I went back to post 12 and 13, decided to run the test as Noel setup, as his seemed definite and the most reproducible. I opened an .nef from Bridge in ACR did no edits continued on to PS. Saved it to drive H (my work drive is Drive J). I did not exit PS and left the file, now saved to Drive E on screen. I went to Bridge, the folder is renamed successfully.

     

    To summarize:

     

    The original: 20120506_188 .nef is on Drive J .

    The copy: 20120506_188.psd is saved to Drive H

    The folder: 20120506 has ben renamed to 20120506_Rhod successfully in Bridge.

     

    Bridge is open PS is open the image is still up in both. I can close out of everything, reopen Bridge, reopen PSD and access the nef and the psd with no problems, the .psd being obtained from Open Recent menu, the .nef in Bridge.

     

    -Lawrence

     

    Message was edited by: Hudechrome

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2012 11:16 AM   in reply to Hudechrome

    Ok, I did duplicate the problem, but not in Bridge.

     

    I was moving and editing older files in Explorer. One folder had  files I didn't recognize. It had a few nef, so I opened one in ACR.I recognized the shot from a kitchen remodel so I closed the image but left PS open. I attempted to rename the folder, appending Kitchen to the file name and it would not take it, giving the same message about the file being open. It wasn't but PS was, so I exited PS then the name change stuck.

     

    So it does happen, but in different scenarios.

     

    Process:

     

    Find a folder with pictures using Explorer

    Go directly to an image, in my case it was a .nef.

    See it opened and exit with no changes. Leave PS open.

    Back at Explorer attempt a rename.

    Explorer issues the file open statement.

    Go back to PS to verify the image is missing.

    Go back to Explorer try again. Same message.

    Exit PS, go back to explorer and now the rename completes as generated.

     

    What remains is to actually open an image from ACR to PS exit the image and then attempt a rename.

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2012 12:16 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    A few more trials and I finally can make it happen in Bridge as well.

    The difference is where one saves it.

    Save the image from PS to another loaction, rename folder ok.

    Save it to the same folder Rename not ok.

     

    In this, Explorer and Bridge are in agreement. I cannot rename the folder in Explorer after saving toi the same location.

     

    Change to different location Rename folder

    Save to same location cannot rename the folder.

     

    Bridge and Explorer.

     
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  • Noel Carboni
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    Jul 14, 2012 1:53 PM   in reply to Hudechrome

    I can confirm that when I saw it happen it was after having saved the last file Photoshop had open in the folder that I then tried to rename.

     

    This fully supports my theory that Photoshop is leaving it's current directory set to that folder, even without a document open from there.  It's something Adobe could work around in their software if they wanted to.

     

    -Noel

     
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  • Currently Being Moderated
    Jul 14, 2012 2:06 PM   in reply to Noel Carboni

    I suspect it may have to do with the scratch disk.

     

    I ran out of steam for testing but I thought as sometime to delete the scratch while PS is open but no image present then try the save.

     
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